What The Heck!!!

[Kevin L]

Nice work, Dan. If jail breaking the iPhone is now legal, we shouldn't have any issues here. We need to build a stronger DIY C4 community.

bring your jail broken iphone into the apple store and see what type of warranty you have...

[cvlboy]

See dealers! People here willung to spend $$$ because of this.

Why do these dealers see me as an enemy? What am I doing wrong?

for one you are acting like a child...

You make me laugh harder and harder. You call others acting like child..:lol:

Have you ever looked at yourself in the mirror ? :lol:

[wappinghigh]

See dealers! People here willung to spend $$$ because of this.

Why do these dealers see me as an enemy? What am I doing wrong?

for one you are acting like a child.. You think you are doing the community a service by posting how to videos and constantly posting info all over this site. I would say there is now a 100% yes 100% chance that in the next 2.0 build which is going into beta in a few weeks that this open part of nav will be 100% CLOSED....

sometimes finding out information and cool tricks does not mean you should post it on your website for all to see.. You want to be popular so bad and be the cool guy who has all of the C4 knowledge but its NEVER going to happen with the things you do and the way you act..

your reasoning is flawed and you are just opening up a nasty can of worms.. There are reasons you aren't on c4central anymore and every day they are more and more evident

Hey. Hold on there..wait a minute. I recall, a computer navigator was seen in operation YEARS ago now...

Now I know Dan has reopened this can of worms (by doing what he has done)...but in all honesty, with the knowledge that C4 has been well able to release a computer navigator for well over 2 years, can you now say Control4 would have done this on their own accord? What are the average punters (users like me) supposed to do. Lie back, think of England, then die waiting? What's the big deal now about a computer navigator anyway? Particularly now there is an ipad app....

What does C4 expect? That people aren't going to go out and try and do this? . 1/ Now that we all can see it can be done...we'll ask. Why the heck not? and 2/ If C4 shuts it down, we'll ask....Why the heck did they do that? They have buried themselves on this one... If they wanted to get revenue for a computer navigator version they have had MORE than enough time to get their act together and release it to the market. Now they only have themselves to blame. If they lock it down now...they'll only look totally silly in the eyes of all users.....

[dannyboy]

See dealers! People here willung to spend $$$ because of this.

Why do these dealers see me as an enemy? What am I doing wrong?

for one you are acting like a child.. You think you are doing the community a service by posting how to videos and constantly posting info all over this site. I would say there is now a 100% yes 100% chance that in the next 2.0 build which is going into beta in a few weeks that this open part of nav will be 100% CLOSED....

sometimes finding out information and cool tricks does not mean you should post it on your website for all to see.. You want to be popular so bad and be the cool guy who has all of the C4 knowledge but its NEVER going to happen with the things you do and the way you act..

your reasoning is flawed and you are just opening up a nasty can of worms.. There are reasons you aren't on c4central anymore and every day they are more and more evident

I look forward to the day control4 2.0 thinking catches up to web 2.0 thinking.

Kevin, If you were not probably correct, this would be the stupidest thing I have read on this forum.

The whole purpose of forums is to share information.

Nothing changes here...

I'll check back in another 6 months...

Frankly Dan, I don't think there would be a forum of any value if you did not post.

[Letran]

for one you are acting like a child.. You think you are doing the community a service by posting how to videos and constantly posting info all over this site. I would say there is now a 100% yes 100% chance that in the next 2.0 build which is going into beta in a few weeks that this open part of nav will be 100% CLOSED....

sometimes finding out information and cool tricks does not mean you should post it on your website for all to see.. You want to be popular so bad and be the cool guy who has all of the C4 knowledge but its NEVER going to happen with the things you do and the way you act..

your reasoning is flawed and you are just opening up a nasty can of worms.. There are reasons you aren't on c4central anymore and every day they are more and more evident

My,my this has certainly been a hot & sensitive topic for both sides. And maybe that is the issue (some, not most) looks at this forum as a users & dealers (now it sounds like a drug deal gone bad). I will hardly call myself DIY. Not that I'm against it by any means, but simply do not have the time, nor the inclination to do some of this stuff that dealers would do. I am still in search of a GOOD dealer. Having a bad dealer is what drove me here to begin with.

I have benefited from the information shared in this forum. Do I feel like I took food from anybody's mouth absolutely not. Given the choice I wouldn't spend that money to begin with. Not having access to this forum I probably wouldn't have gone with Control4 to begin or maybe none of the home automation. I firmly believe that having access to this sharing and open ideas is Control4's edge. It promotes growth in both dealers and users. The end users that frequent this forums are not your typical end users. Most of the typical customers that the dealers market to will not search, spend time or bother to understand these terminologies, functionalities etc. Although it is true the more we know the more we spend.(Believe me) Dealers like anybody in sales need to recognize their market and the type of customers they have in front of them. Most dealers just choose to ignore the DIY type but at the end with the right relationship. That DIY will probably be the biggest promoter referer to the dealer.

Like what I read somebody compared it too.

If a gearhead buys a car and wants to change his own oil should the dealership hide the instructions on how to change the oil or add a fee if you want to do it yourself? This is the same person that will most likely buy a ton of crap for his car.

If after tinkering with HIS car he finds out that HE can make it faster. Should he not share that info?

The gearhead's neighbor saw what he could do with his car and he wants the same car. Which dealership would the gearhead then recommend he buys it? But the neighbor is not a gearhead like him so they might have to service him more.

If enough of this gearheads tinker, share, develop this car would the manufacturer then get free R&D?

If Club411 decides to change his own oil with the R8, well that's another story.

It's all good. So let's all put down or guns, controllers and dimmers and join hands for group hug.

Alan, I do not know what's what but you have always been generous and we love you for it please do not leave.

[nikon]

It's all good. So let's all put down or guns' date=' controllers and dimmers and join hands for group hug.

Alan, I do not know what's what but you have always been generous and we love you for it please do not leave.[/quote']

+1. A few followup questions. Has the owner/operator of C4DIY really done anything wrong here? Either running a computer based navigator or posting this information on this forum? Just askin?

I don't really know let Control4 do something about it if they feel it is necessary.

The "portable navigator" which will run on your PC will be entering beta testing soon and will be sold as a license. I am confident that control4 will be closing the doors soon on this hole/hack or whatever you want to call it soon anyway. If some people never want to upgrade firmware again so be it.

[wappinghigh]

What "portable navigator" ?

OSX? Win7? http:// ?

[tebery]

When I switched from Escient to C4 over 3 years ago, a web based nav. was the one thing I really missed. I can't believe it's taking this long. If they close the hole then I will not be in any hurry to switch to 2.0 (if I ever do). Which means no replacing my v2 remotes, no purchasing Infinity touch screen, etc.

Message to Control4:

"Read the posts here about the complaints of 2.0. Fix those! Not the positive things about it."

P.S. Dan, Alan, KevinL, (and many others). You guys contribute a ton of stuff here. If it wasn't for this forum I would have went with Crestron. Keep up the info and posts! Thanks!

[ILoveC4]

Okay, first of all, I haven't done anything wrong here. Furthermore, I haven't even shown anybody how to do this? What are all these dealers so upset about? Maybe I will post one of the dozens of rediculous emails I have received from dealers bitching at me. Actually, not a bad idea. Here is one from our "friend" slemay:

"On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 20:17:28 -0500, Shawn Lemay <shawn@sandtent.com> wrote:

I find it quite upsetting that you take information from a private

dealer forum and post it on a public forum - such as a FLASH hack. You

wonder why Control4 hides things from both dealers and the public -

it's for exactly these types of reasons. Congrats on burning all

bridges with dealers, who in the past (myself included) would have

supported you. I hope it was worth it.

Shawn

PS

Please don't bother to reply or justify it. That would be an insult to

both you and I.

Shawn P. Lemay

Sound & Theater / S&T Enterprises of WNY

Williamsville NY 1422

(716) 632-2790"

Shawn, I don't need your support....sorry. Not only is this crazy, but it motivates me even more to figure out cool stuff like this, that we can do with products we paid A LOT OF MONEY FOR. People are still going to buy touch panels. The users like us, that care about this, are way out on the fringe. Most C4 users don't come to this site, they aren't techie, they just want a cool product that works. Control4 will still sell touch panels...I will still buy touch panels.

To answer the question about what PC this is running on, it isn't anything super fancy. It has an Intel Quad Core processor (Q8300) and 8 gig of ram. It runs that fast on my net book as well...which has an Intel Atom dual core processor (the net book is no speed demon, but this runs fast).

Just so everybody knows, I offered to pay Alan for that POP3 email driver that he wrote. I love that driver, and I would still pay him for it today. He wouldn't accept payment. Now he is talking like I have been sharing his drivers. NOT TRUE. If you are one of the ~75 people that emailed me asking for that email driver you know exactly what I'm saying...I didn't give it to you because Alan requested it be distributed via the dealer network only. I will honor that...I have no reason not too.

Kevin, with regards to me wanting to be popular...try again. I really enjoy this stuff, and (unlike you apparently) I don't see any point in keeping the cool things I figure out quiet. There is a reason why my user ID isn't my name (like yours is), and why I am simply "Dan". I am not worried about popularity, or making friends...I'm just enjoying this technology and having fun. About C4Central, you apparently have no idea why I am not on C4Central.com anymore. It is because it was taken from me....stolen by a douche bag named Bryan Jefferson (The SOHO Shop). I started C4Central...and he stole it...that's all there is to it. I could push it and get the site back, according to what my attorney and the legal department at the original host said. Problem is it isn't worth the effort to me...it has no $$$ value to me, but it has tremendous value to Bryan. He built his business on that website and this forum, largely in part to the efforts of thecodeman. How do you think a dealer in MO, who doesn't even have a show room, starts doing business all over the country? His solicitation of inquiring customers on this site, and by capitolizing on the people that email C4Central asking questions..he offers solutions with $$$ attached. Bryan will get his though...he has already started to and it will keep coming.

Guys, I want everyone here to enjoy this, and I want everyone here to be able to continue to enjoy this. Therefore I have decided to take a slightly different approach. I will get this out in the hands of the public, before Control4 tries to commercialize it. I look at it this way. I bought my controller, and everything that came on it. Me taking advantage of the files there isn't me doing anything wrong.

I am working on getting announcements working on this navigator, which is proving to be a bit of work. I will probably release a version without the announcements early this week (Monday or Tuesday). Stay tuned...and don't worry, these haters won't slow anything down, they are just pouring fuel on the fire.

Also, to make clear how this came about, a couple of weeks ago a friend emailed me and asked me to try something, that would ultimately have this same result. I am busy, and never got around to it. Four days ago, another friend emailed me asking me to try it. Neither of these friends have 2.0, but heard it was possible to get this working (had never done it though). Then, on Friday, a user posted it on the forum, asking someone to try. Those basic instructions get you 70% of the way there, and with some tinkering and fiddling, I got the other 30%. I was going to do a writeup on how to do what I did, but I am going to take a different approach now, one that should ensure this works for a long time to come. Stay tuned.

[takitezsdc]

Dan dont listent to the dealers..........they are being babies. Do what you do and share the info you have..........we love ya!!

Your Friend!

Enduser!

[alanchow]

Dan I wasn't referring to you on the ip but. There are other users doing that. Your post confirms that some people justdont respect mu wishes. Anyway The bit I was upset about was a post that was copied from a deleted tread here to the official forum. I thought it was from you but it was from xc430. He has apologised for it already.

Anyway I'm going back to licensing free drivers from now on.

[Letran]

Anyway I'm going back to licensing free drivers from now on.

Oh no!!! What does that mean ? I haven't got my XBMC & Email notification installed yet.

[alanchow]

It means that all new versions will require a licence generated by me that will unlock the functionality for your piece of hardware. I've Done it before but chose to not do it for my simpler drivers.

[xc420]

just remember this. If it wasn't for the UNENCRYPTED xbmc driver, ilovecontrol wouldn't have been able to fix the xbmc driver FOR YOU to work with the latest build.

Ask EV what happened when apple decided to encrypt it's communication protocol. No more appletv EV driver.

Every driver since you figured out how to encrypt them, have been encrypted. This is nothing new.

[ILoveC4]

It isn't possible, I don't have any idea what he is talking about. All the communication is encrypted.

This guy is talking out of line and isn't speaking any accurate information. I have emailed him asking him to take that post down. Will you please do the same?

[alanchow]

Encryption is different from licencing. Licencing means that even if you get a copy of the driver you won't be able to use it without a licence specific to your controller. Encryption has been around for a few years now and all the major drivers that were developed by myself and my colleagues were always encrypted and licenced due to concerns of piracy.

Anyway I thanked carlos for his work. I honestly didn't have any intention of releasing a fix before the release. Funny enough it was only a single space that caused the issue. He is actually the only c4forum user i talk to outside of c4forum and i actually consider him a friend.

Extra Veggies has always really charged for their drivers. That is was their business decision and i respect them for it. I chose to give away some of my simpler drivers for free as i felt it would expand the system for everybody. Now people like you xc420 are making me think twice about releasing free drivers.

I could continue arguing with you and i'm sure this will be a never ending debate. In the end of the day what i do with my intellectual property is my business.

There are alot of users on this forum. Some of who respected my wishes. Others of whom chose to ignore them and do what they felt like doing. I guess this is one of the blessings of hiding behind a computer. You never really comfront the people who you are cheating. Now i am not refering to any particular person here. I am just saying that my experiences here so far have been more negative then positive. I have tried to contribute to c4forums the way i contribute to the dealer forum and i have always felt that if you help people then in return people will do the right thing by you. Unfortunately i have found out the hard way that the world is an ugly place and in the end its just not worth the effort.

The politics on this forum are too hard to handle sometimes. Sometimes i feel that maybe i should just stop posting on forums and concentrate more on my day to day life. Anyway thats the end of my rant. I'm exhausted.

[Letran]

i have always felt that if you help people then in return people will do the right thing by you. Unfortunately i have found out the hard way that the world is an ugly place and in the end its just not worth the effort.

Keep the faith Alan, people are inherently good. Sometimes it is painful but I'm sure you know this, your goodwill has spread a hundred fold and will come back to you directly or indirectly POSITIVELY.

If you look at it closely, it is our expectations and rules that we set for ourselves and others that hurt us NEGATIVELY

[xc420]

I'm not trying to argue here........

I just don't get protecting your "intellectual property rights" by encrypting free drivers although you have every right to do so. What are you afraid of? Someone using one of your drivers to make something useful for the whole community. No offense but I don't think there's a boatload of proprietary secrets locked up in any of your drivers. What some (including myself) are interested in is communication protocols just as basis to develop something else from - an example of how to make an IP driver with Control4. Not to make a profit from it, but just to use for expanding our own systems. That's all. I'm sure doing so will have zero effects on your bottom line. I don't get how you are somehow 'cheated.'

edited to add: We have an example with the xbmc driver and I thank you for it. I don't understand why you don't want it distributed to non-dealers but I won't give it to anyone anymore. FYI - The last person I gave it to was ILoveControl, but I'll never give it to anyone else.

[ruckus]

I agree with the earlier sentiments in this thread. Adding features (not always at the customers expense) would make me a lot more likely to invest more in my system. Right now I am at 1.7 and am kind of waiting to decide if I want to keep investing in my system. I love what C4 does but the relationship seems very one sided. It seems every time something gets added it costs more money. For instance, the iphone and ipad apps are something al lot of companies offer for free when you use their equipment. Same goes for computer interfaces. I could go one. With more and more offerings from very serious companies coming into this space I'd like to see C4 really start adding value and making the system more open (debated to death). Having said that my system has been great and I'll most likely add once I have a compelling reason to do so.

[R_Willis]

Keep up the good work and posts Dan.

The users (end/DIY) that do this stuff probably compose less then 5% of C4's business. Not a big deal, really.

And like others have said, we are the ones that keep upgrading and buying new equipment anyway.

You will NEVER make everyone happy, end of story.

[ILoveC4]

I don't care about making anyone happy, I'm just having fun.

[wappinghigh]

Dan, do you know anything about the (non)DIY PC based navigator hinted within this thread?..see post 31....:cool:

[nikon]

Dan, do you know anything about the (non)DIY PC based navigator hinted within this thread?..see post 31....:cool:

The interface for flash based devices will be going into beta testing soon and when released licenses will have to be purchased to use it. I am not sure about the price for the licenses but on Crestron systems iPad licenses cost $99 for 3 or 4 devices through the iTunes store and they give you the computer version for free I believe.

[ILoveC4]

Dan, do you know anything about the (non)DIY PC based navigator hinted within this thread?..see post 31....:cool:

Just sit tight for the next few days...

[wappinghigh]

Ok. Appols for the probing...So it's a web-based application then. Will run on PC or Mac....The reason I'm asking is there are probably a few folk out there (me included) that are still undecided about which HTPC platform to use!