GregCAMS

Lutron and Vantage are not a home automation systems. They are comfort control brands. They will always be a partner, not a competitor to whatever list of lux brands we make. Josh wants to be the premium software that handles them and besides hardware processors and I/O IR control, a sleek system specific smart remote other brands seem to have difficulty with is the only other hardware piece they need. They will continue to build business on integration with only few critical but really well made hardware skus. 

Without question, the network chipset in the Micros is finicky (versus flakey).  I tell my clients to turn off the "wake Beep" on each Micro as it seems to work 100x better in catching the commands.  Once that's done, I never have issue with Josh understanding a command, nor have I gotten negative feedback regarding not understanding (with the "wake beep" set to off in each micro).  It's not listening for that split second and sometimes causes issues with the command.

Funny. I’m using breck also 

om another note.. have you guys tried the new human like voices.? sounds much better

Yeah think the inside baseball is a good analogy.  Assume that'll get worked out since nearly all other major control platforms (Crestron, Lutron, ELAN) in addition to point solutions (Tidal, Nest, Google, Sonos, etc) are supported on that remote control platform as was just mentioned.  I don't see C4 putting development cost into voice as by many (not myself personally) as a niche market and just leverage the Alexa, Google, and Josh plaforms instead.  
I know there will be different perspectives but glad that the touchscreen does not have a far-field microphone for my specific use case.  I already have Nano and Micro devices in every zone of the home and just want to add a few touchscreens for a few spots for guest to have easy access for scenes they would not know otherwise when visiting (i.e. Great Room, Kitchen, etc.).  If they decided in a V2 to add a far field microphone with the option to disable to far-field microphone I'd be good with that similar to disabling the mic on the current hardware.
Pre-ordered the Cinema remote last week with anticipated delivery in early March to see how that goes.  Have 3 of the current models in guest rooms and based upon visitors in those rooms they loved them since they are phone app folks with their devices back at their homes.  Having the ability to have scenes in a visual format I can do without needing a dealer or effort of Composer style HE work is great and easy to swap and test within seconds.  Will see if battery life is better compared to Halo as definitely disappointed with some of the lack of functionality in Halo without doing button programming that I can already do on the Josh/Ava remote (locks, shades, fireplaces, heaters) from day 1 of receiving unit.
Biggest differentiator for our case is the UI is an order of magnitude better and the OTA updates both are detailed and frequent.  Along with that the end user customer like myself can go to a Medium Blog by the company or to their YouTube channel and review the changes and updates made. In the case of C4 I have to rely on a forum where the release notes are not published often or a change happens (like the photo icons in the iOS) with no accompanied detailed blog, video or detailed information on what updated and why.  That's a gripe but a reason for only using C4 now as a 'backbone/back office' element and not the front end UI we used to use it for those in the household and visitors.

I am a Josh dealer and I am a huge advocate for Josh.ai integration with Control4.  It's wildly powerful and until you live with it, you can't imagine what it brings to your home.  I do agree 1,000,000% the touchscreen mic situation is a HUGE miss.  I can't tell you the business it would have generated, let alone the fact that I would be installing them in my own home the day they start shipping.

Shelly integration is great (but for us with Control4, we already have it)
UI changes are very nice, but it was never really bad.
The recurring revenue model isn't a huge burden at $60/mo up to 500 devices controlled.  I would pay more for as much as we use it.  The hardware is a barrier to entry for some, but once you sink that cost, you sort of forget about it lol!
 

I'm likely jumping on the Josh.ai train and integrating. I get the conflict and some of it is inside baseball. The remotes are not their hardware and simply run their apps. I realize that is splitting hairs, but it's just an android stick. I don't think C4 should have sued before trying to come up with a solution that was mutually beneficial. C4 could build a Josh.ai voice system if they wanted, but given their finances and staffing I'm not sure it's recommended. I love competition and hope we see some, but lawsuits seem excessive. Sue AVA and not Josh.ai. Somehow I'm doubting there was any agreement on what form factor the Josh.ai app was limited to run on when integrating into C4. Maybe I'm wrong.
I'd like to hold one of the AVA cin remotes. I feel the new clicky glass wheel is too low on the device to balance well based on seeing it, but not touching it.
The software UI changes didn't wow all that much.
The integrations with things like Shelly has potential, but I feel like this is preparing them for the market between Home Assistant and C4.
I think the new screen missed by not having a 4 mic farfield always on mic. If you have proximity and nano like mic at the screen location you can have context aware screens that change on you before you even touch. Looks nice. Hope it can be wifi and line powered vs POE.

Josh dealers will sell Josh hardware.... yes some people are both 

It did ducking back in 2020 when I only had Micros and the Core and Nano did not come out.  Now have added Cores & Nano's in addition to C4 system and does the ducking as shown in videos showing the functionality.  I use the announcements for a few scenarios:
Everyday use - Items on scheduled time like dinner and my wife who runs an in-home childcare in casita to announce specific activities that are also tailored to a time/day and announces activities, turns the lights on, opens shades, plays kids song and puts TV on mute.  Same for dinner in terms of specific time/day, announced, and carries out actions on the C4 devices (lights, music) and shades (Lutron) Events - Family in town - use the whole home announcement function in Josh to say 'we're headed out' or 'time to eat' that plays thru the Core and then thru the Triad matrix to all audio zones to announce Probably doesn't answer your question fully.  I eliminated all C4 scenes about 18 months ago and just use C4 for non-scene actions and a few remotes.

It did ducking back in 2020 when I only had Micros and the Core and Nano did not come out.  Now have added Cores & Nano's in addition to C4 system and does the ducking as shown in videos showing the functionality.  I use the announcements for a few scenarios:
Everyday use - Items on scheduled time like dinner and my wife who runs an in-home childcare in casita to announce specific activities that are also tailored to a time/day and announces activities, turns the lights on, opens shades, plays kids song and puts TV on mute.  Same for dinner in terms of specific time/day, announced, and carries out actions on the C4 devices (lights, music) and shades (Lutron) Events - Family in town - use the whole home announcement function in Josh to say 'we're headed out' or 'time to eat' that plays thru the Core and then thru the Triad matrix to all audio zones to announce Probably doesn't answer your question fully.  I eliminated all C4 scenes about 18 months ago and just use C4 for non-scene actions and a few remotes.

I'm assuming you're talking about Josh, which I believe does ducking if you use the core. Dumb question, but can you have Josh play custom announcements based on events or actions in control4? I tested Josh a while ago (just a micro without a Core before they added all the new features) but have always wondered about this for announcements.

Intel NUC is what I like fro this

Everything is great so far. I love that panelized lighting allowed us to keep all switch locations to 2-gang maximum. Our previous house had far less lighting loads and still we had some 4-gang locations. The only places we have 2-gang now are when we have lights + ceiling fan. 

It’s not that it’s enjoyable. I charge a premium and typically work with people that pay that premium for a personal contact that understands all of their systems and subsystems intimately. In a few cases this extends to multiple properties with singular clients. This is my differentiation from competitors that farm out support. A good number of my high net worth clients left their previous integration companies because they migrated support to One Vision and it ruined their service experience. It’s worked extremely well for my business although as I said, an employee in a larger company that wants to work a set number of hours and not want to deal with calls after hours can be solved with this service. If I felt that I was overextended and being neglectful of my clients then this would probably be a relief to sign people up. I‘m definitely not in this position and prefer to run things as is. I do see the benefit for others and if they can extend those support hours to me it definitely has a huge upside to my business.

One thing I would have found to be beneficial is to allow the client to pay for the Assist service and allow the dealer to be the point person, not their call center. I usually don’t hit the Gold level for sales volume and I think an Assist plan that opens my tech support access to either the 7 day 8-8 or the 24/7 + 365 would be an easy sell. Most of my client base would refuse to contact another party to deal with their service issues.    
       I’ve made a reputation for direct and personal concierge level service and clients message me directly. The Snap stance is that Assist is strictly client facing so that becomes a deal stopper for me to promote it. I’m a very small operator that represents Snap and C4 very well on my own so I don’t see this program helping me at all, it would likely fracture many of my relationships. I think this would benefit larger firms where employees aren’t likely to want to deal with after hours calls so it’s not a bad idea but definitely not a one size fits all solution. For small operators that don’t necessarily want to run large operations but focus on higher quality and less volume this seems to run against that grain.

agreed - was same experience with Parasol from prior dealer.  New One uses OneVision and their resources at least so far are much more helpful on the level 1 support in conjunction with the things I'm already able to troubleshoot.  

1. Shows as an asset on Control4's financials
2. Allows client to change dealer without affecting service (yes, the dealer set as my home pro gets next months check, not locked to the selling dealer)
3. Dealer only gets check while a dealer, any turnover where a client doesn't change their pro results in no partner pay out
4. Accounting of who's eligible for services, and allows the showing of the contact info to only those based on if paid, secret club access
5. Most dealers couldn't handle setting up an RMR
6. Interest: client pays yearly, dealer paid monthly

it would have been a lot better for Control4 PR wise to use the same price for the existing 4sight for their connect program for awhile if they are going to make it mandatory. To make this service mandatory, not really provide anything new and then double the price seems like a money grab.

I've had C4 for 3 years. In those 3 years I've had no problem paying for 4sight. In those 3 years there have been some modest but useful UI tweaks, a couple mediocre (other than voice) remote controls, and evolutionary controllers. It's hard for me to see how the new pricing is anything more than a grab. If I pay more I want to get more. And that more does not include being more locked down. So glad I have Lutron lights. DIY systems now have access to Matter devices, both Thread & WiFi. C4 still doesn't support standard Zigbee devices. 

Money grab pure and simple. Huge mistake to hit your loyal customers and dealers in the face. Realistically, I’ll pay the added fee for what is just rebranded 4Sight if they make me, but just be transparent. Don’t try to pretend this is some new product - it’s just insulting.

Also, if they push OvrC as mandatory (or move to a cloud based system), I’m gone. And I’m heavily invested in C4/have never said a bad word about SnapAV. Not that anyone cares what I think over there haha.


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https://www.control4.com/o/assist
†Programing may be limited to programing that can be performed by using the system’s “When >> Then” programing functionality as well as adding new products that can be reasonably added remotely. Security system updates are not included.
1Limited to remote assistance for plug-and-play devices that are compatible with Control4
There's a lot unsaid, so time will tell.
Will they walk a customer through putting an emitter back on a replaced cable box? Will a client expect to have to when they're paying?
Don't know. But based on the first expectations here, a lot needs to be clarified.

People will pay for service that is true. But people PAYING for service, raise expectations of service, and often beyond what is offered.
"....I pay my dealer $3000 a year for service, and I had to tape this thing on just so I could watch TV. And then the guy who installed it wanted another $200 to come out to the house and glue it. What a joke."
Not the house cleaner ripped it off in the first place, or that it was like that for two weeks before the big game, or the dealer suggested using the app, or the dealer didn't make the $3000, or hey someone answered the call at 10:00pm.

 

in general could lead dealers to selling more "packaged" systems with just C4 components and having the customer sign up for a program.  this way they know support will be there because all the hardware is Snap/C4....
but again who is the buyer?  the tinker/DIY person on this forum likely has a remote dealer they use...the high end/affluent/i dont have time for tech/dont know tech person will need someone onsite for probably half their changes and that isnt included in the package.
They should have more tiers:
1) software/programming only
2) network support
3) software/programming and network support
4) all the above + onsite hours included from your local tech (where your local tech will schedule time with the c4 support to be onsite at your available schedule)
as it is now, i know my unifi/mikrotik/cisco hardware wont be supported so no way am I paying for that base package if I cannot use half the services.  Furthermore, what if your internet is out - are they going to troubleshoot that if you have C4 hardware, or just troubleshoot C4 issues within your network set up....
so many questions....

i agree, their release is vague, but there are 10,000's of 3rd party devices, some with certified c4 drivers, some with paid drivers.  either way, are they going to support every camera, every video distribution system, every music service player, etc.
again all interesting, gotta take that first step somehow.  just not sure who is a buyer of these services.

Thrilled to announce we have agreed a partnership with myQ, part of the Chamberlain group to provide official drivers, starting with Control4.
Extract from press release:
Today, Intrinsic Dev, a leading software provider to the custom install industry, and global intelligent access leader, Chamberlain Group, announced a new partnership that will provide integration solutions for smart home platforms, beginning with Control4.
“This new partnership will provide another integration for homeowners and dealers looking to expand their smart home systems,” said Kiel Fitzgerald, Sr. Director & GM myQ Residential Partnerships at Chamberlain Group. “We look forward to working with Intrinsic Dev to further our myQ offering within the custom install industry.”
Read the full press release here - https://www.intrinsicdev.com/myq-press-release/
The Control4 driver is now ready for public beta, if you'd like the chance to be involved please email ceri@intrinsicdev.com for more info.

fairly sure its a rebranding of Parasol and this is how its rolling out in the C4 world