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Control4 and HDMI ARC


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3 hours ago, Crustyloafer said:

ARC = Audio Rarely Comes.

As above, its generally very unreliable and any integrator who knows what they are doing and does not want repeated call-backs will never use it.

Thought ARC = Audio RANDOMLY Comes. 🤪

 

C4 is such is not 'incompatible' with ARC, though it's standard setup doesn't allow for the same easy connection setup as other methods. It CAN be done though.

 

It's just that it's so unreliable (ARC is) and inconsistent , and can interfere in weird ways with normal operation, that it's THAT much easier to run a digital audio line to make such a setup work.

Oh and no, for most TVs you're not losing any audio quality as they don't support Atmos etc to begin with.

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Thanks for your answers about Control4 and ARC.

I am getting a new tv, the Sony A8H which has  eARC/ARC. I have the Anthem MRX520; Sony 4k BDP-S6700 blu-ray, Paradigm Prestige 75s L/R/C; Sumiko S.5 sub; Sonos Connect and Sennheiser RS185 wireless headphones. And of course the Control4 one room system (all about 3.5 years ago from a dealer who recommended everything - and probably oversold me ;-))) I also have Dish Network with DVR and both Netflix Premium and Amazon Prime. 

I have "generally" been happy with the system, though I don't know how everything was installed at the time. I DO know that it appears that everything is hooked up through the 4k blu-ray player??....I know that when I hit "watch" on the remote it turns the blu-ray player on. I really don't want to add any additional equipment (streaming devices etc.).

The one very annoying thing is that often when I am watching tv, the audio comes out ONLY from the center channel speaker, so what's the point of the L/R and sub??  

My Sony XBR-X930D died about 6 weeks ago, hence all these questions - and new purchase of the A8H and ARC. 

So, what's the best way the new installers should handle all this? Can I get access to all various tv functions THROUGH the tv and NOT the Blu-ray player? Advantages/Disadvantages? If I do have to go the route of a streamer, which? I read that the Apple TV 4k makes the Sony OLED even darker.

Sorry for all the questions, I really am non-technical, but I AM very curious and I want to understand all this stuff. Thanks!

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Hmm. That's a pretty hefty system, which isn't a bad thing.

Sounds like there may be some oddities in the setup though.

If you want streaming services, Roku Ultra is probably the best bet, also allows you to 'just' select Netflix, system handles turning on/off what is needed etc etc.

C4 CAN most certainly control the apps on Sony (though there's a bug in the TV for one or two apps, think one is Hulu?), but I would just use an optical if that is the way you want to go vs using ARC.

For sub $200 a Roku is a hardly a huge investment though.

 

As for the audio, it could just be settings on the amp overpowering the centre (centre is used for voice, and you will usually only notice voice from there, other sounds fo to the Left and Right (and/or surrounds if used).

So if you're mainly watching things that have 'chat' in them, you may rarely notice the other two - this as such may be normal.

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I think the new video game consoles (PS5 and Xbox Series) might be a reason to use (e)ARC.  They are both capable of 32 - 40 Gb/s bandwidth so unless you have a brand new HDMI 2.1 receiver, these consoles must be plugged directly into the TV.

However, you then need to route the audio to your AVR so your options are (e)ARC or SPDIF/TOSLINK.  eARC supports lossless audio so that's obviously the best choice.  (and the only choice if you want to use your PS5/Xbox as a UHD player)

Anyways... this is the situation I'm currently in so I'm going to try and configure my home system using ARC.  Can anybody give me any advice on how to configure it in Composer?  I think the issue is that Control4 needs to select the correct input on my TV AND the correct input on the AVR ("TV Audio", I think).

 

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On 12/8/2020 at 1:21 PM, sofakng said:

They are both capable of 32 - 40 Gb/s bandwidth so unless you have a brand new HDMI 2.1 receiver, these consoles must be plugged directly into the TV.


To what end? This is only of consideration if your TV also supports it (meaning you got a high end TV since...what May or July this year?). If it does, you could have probably afforded to get a new receiver along with the TV and the PS5/XBXX. 😉

Course that's assuming there's any worthwhile games or movies that support the 8K or 120Hz and higher FPS.

If they don't, then there's (likely) going to be little functional difference between letting the game console handling the upscaling vs just using the TV itself.

 

 

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I'm in the same predicament where we have a project right now with two HDMI 2.1 Samsung TVs and PS5s.
We did get the latest Yamaha AVR with HDMI 2.1 support.
But that is not enabled yet and actually if you read some industry articles online regarding AVRs and HDMI 2.1 it looks like they all use the same Panasonic HDMI chipset which is not spect right for HDMI 2.1 Gaming features 🐌

A big Issue with eArc Atmos and gaming feature is that it introduces a slight delay in sound and unlike video where you can easily sync it up with games you do not want to do that as it would introduce additional input lag.

I'm hoping that down the line we will get decent HDMI 2.1 Splitter to work around the Game consoles to feed the signal into the TV and AVR at the same time to get the best of both worlds.
 

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In my house I actually have my Xbox One X connected to the TV directly and using ARC mainly to be able to use Variable Refresh rate and so that my Samsung TV engages Game mode.
I ordered a HDMI 2.0 Splitter with edid management and I'll be testing if the splitting will eliminate the audio delay when enabling Atmos for gaming.
Currently I switched Atmos off and the audio delay is much better now.
 

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Using eARC successfully with Sony TV and AV receiver, installed about a year ago. Had plenty of set-up trouble to start with, but got there. It’s now reliable, using a mix of TV apps, Apple TV box, and Verizon FIOS.

Some Sony AV receivers support eARC WITHOUT CEC, which makes the control easier. (Unfortunately, mine does not.)

So, it can be done. It does require more thought on what the commands will do, particularly when changing inputs. (On/off is pretty easy.)

Like many new standards, I’m sure there were (and still are) some compatibility issues, but I’m using eARC in two rooms now, without issue. Other room is LG TV and latest Sonos sound bar (with Atmos, no other AV receiver). Haven’t hooked the LG up to Control4 as the LG remote does a great job and there’s no other integrations I’m concerned with in that room.

Good luck!

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On 2/16/2021 at 12:09 AM, JohnR said:

 

Some Sony AV receivers support eARC WITHOUT CEC, which makes the control easier. (Unfortunately, mine does not.)

 

That's interesting, because CEC is not a requirement for eARC to function at all, it is transmitted over the previously unused ethernet channel pairs as a completely stand-alone audio signal.

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With so many TV's now including Roku and Google TV, both of which support ATMOS, I don't know how much longer C4 can let the CEC/ARC issue go unfixed. Telling customers to upgrade their AVR/PreAmp Processor to eARC isn't going to go over very well. 

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On 4/27/2021 at 6:29 PM, vkennedy said:

With so many TV's now including Roku and Google TV, both of which support ATMOS, I don't know how much longer C4 can let the CEC/ARC issue go unfixed. Telling customers to upgrade their AVR/PreAmp Processor to eARC isn't going to go over very well. 

Exactly HOW would you propose Control 'fixes' the requirement for eARC/HDMI2.1 to get Atmos out or an audio return channel?

This has nothing to do with C4 - you need to replace the receiver due to HDMI requirements.

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On 4/28/2021 at 8:43 PM, Cyknight said:

Exactly HOW would you propose Control 'fixes' the requirement for eARC/HDMI2.1 to get Atmos out or an audio return channel?

This has nothing to do with C4 - you need to replace the receiver due to HDMI requirements.

I suppose that they could offer something like this vs recommendations from an "expert" like you to buy a new AVR:

https://www.thenaudio.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwhr2FBhDbARIsACjwLo3OrsT6w2FadvMNsB8tofo3MfMWsqOW2fCVephkCHBHsFiWCEGypskaAh_bEALw_wcB

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, vkennedy said:

I suppose that they could offer something like this vs recommendations from an "expert" like you to buy a new AVR:

https://www.thenaudio.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwhr2FBhDbARIsACjwLo3OrsT6w2FadvMNsB8tofo3MfMWsqOW2fCVephkCHBHsFiWCEGypskaAh_bEALw_wcB

 

 

 

Potentially a neat device, but with the announced price increase, for most cases you're looking at half the price of a new receiver anyway.

That's assuming it will prove it's reliable long term.

I'd still recommend getting a new receiver (and not using eARC to begin with and go source - receiver - TV) to do a proper hook-up vs a patch solution.

 

 

But that's just my 'expert' opinion.

 

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