Binnerup Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I don't think folks (me included) are going to actually *want* dealers fiddling around their PC's or maintaining their movie databases.. You are missing the point here. We do not see it as just something you install on your existing PC, but something that comes with a complete product solution. Just like the EV driver is intended to be delivered along with a complete solution, the My Movies solution is as well in this usage area. Like you can contact your Control4 dealer, and buy the EV driver to do things yourself, I do not expect this is the intention from EV - like this, we cannot, and will not block dealers to just provide My Movies as a software license - but it is not the intention of it. I can understand why many of you do not need an extra piece of expansive hardware in the whole solution, but is what we ideally saw supplied, because registered professionals could deliver something that you do not destroy with whatever other things you put on your PC. My Movies is a software for home PC users, but not when it comes to the features of control systems, and other advanced installations. There really is not more to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnerup Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 wappinghigh: If you have purchased an EV license from a dealer, and you purchase a My Movies license from a dealer, and do things yourself, how is that a problem for you? This is not what EV intends with the way they sell licenses, and this is not what we intend with what we supply to the professional market, but we cannot and will not block this from being something that can be done. I will close this discussion with you here though - we could have chosen to just say too bad, this is not a solution we provide, and be done with it there. I have now taken quite some time trying to explain why we did what we did, and how we will ensure that existing customers have a safe way through. You just have to consider this as something that is no longer going to be sold in the consumer market. You may not agree with it, but that is the way things are going to be. If this means you hate us, we are sorry for that, but it does not change that we have to do this, and we are going to do this. At least acknowledge that we have taken the time to explain things, while I believe most other companies would not comment on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 ^ No problem. It's great you have taken the time to explain.... Thanks for the heads up on how this is all going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Good luck to you with your new scheme. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 There is one other thing I also would like to point out here, which is the fact that our solutions is seen as just a data editor.... The below can be seen as advertising, choose to ignore it if you do not like that. My Movies is a software solution that can be installed and used by end users, ranking from all to users that just manages a small movie collection, to users that build complete servers, which acts as base of their complete entertainment solution. The media servers are what our professional partners typically provides, and it is the feature set of the media servers, which until My Movies 5 only have been available on Windows Home Server and Server 2012 Essentials, that is unknown for the majority of the users. I expect that most of you are "just" using My Movies as a meta-data editor.... The server solutions contains a lot more than that, which means that it's ideal place is not just a software on a personal computer to do some editing, but its intention is that it is a central part of the complete solution. Some of the things that the server solution gives, and My Movies 5 gives are: Fully automated movie disc copying. This is not a solution like the others where you have to do everything manually - this is a put disc in, be done with it solution. From our knowledge, the only other provider of a fully automated solution for this is Kaleidescape - their FAQ writes that they have 157,000 Dvd's in their database, where we have more than 800,000 individual titles, and 350,000 unique discs, meaning that we expect it to by far being the best fully automated solution. What we hear in the market is that the K-scape database is fine when in US, but lacking when outside - especially in European countries, we have a better coverage. On top of that, the software includes services to report unidentified discs. Fully automated copying of audio CD's. This is not a main focus point for us, but it is available based on third party meta-data providers, and for various formats. Automated video converter functionalities, where you can either convert your full movie formats to MP4 files for use with mobile devices, DNLA devices, Chromecasts or others, or, it can be used to either directly copy to, or convert to lossless MKV files. Mobile applications for all popular platforms, including iPhone, iPad, Android, Windows Phone and Windows 8. With the exception of Windows Phone, you can on these platforms download converted titles and bring with you, or you can play the titles directly on the mobile device from the solution. Within the next few weeks, you can also on iPhone, iPad and Android play these files on chromecast. There are many other functions in this, but these are the main points where the server solution software, and, the My Movies 5 software differs from what most of you are likely presented to, with the Collection Management program "just" being a data provider for the Control4 system. I think it is an important point in the whole discussion, as this is not about just installing a small piece of softwares, but from our table, it is seen as providing a complete solution, which surely is possible for the advanced DIY'er, but is also complicated enough to not be something that end-users should receive from professionals that do not know what they are dealing with, and cannot support. If you see this entirely as a software for your existing personal PC, I can surely understand why you do not see a good reason for this having to be supplied from a professional. If the solution are to be something that is operateable by your wife, your kids and others, which is the intention of it, things have to be done right, when talking about the complete systems provided - and this is what is currently being provided by several professionals without them knowing what they are dealing with. Closing the API for end-users is just the only tool we have to stop this. This means that if you just want to install and use the base software, you can obviously still do this - you just need to get the license from a dealer - our suggestion would be that you request your dealer to be able to supply you this, just as they can supply you the EV driver. I've been on your website and read and understood that such functionality exists in MM, however I and many on this thread are interested in the detailed explanation of how this works in the following scenareo When installing this, does the professional need to provide a new computer or server with my movies to rip and tag discs or can this still be the same laptop I already own and was planning to use and I use for writing my emails, watching cat videos on youtube, facebook, c4forums etc. As shown in the diagram, once the metadata is passed to C4, the computer is out of the picture, the NAS drive is serving out the movie files to the popbox and being controlled by C4. I can see this on the EV website but this still does not make this clear to me. http://www.extravegetables.com/products/my-moviesYou can find out more about My Movies on their professional website, details on how to join their Installer Program are here. By becoming a My Movies installer, you will benefit from discounted My Movies licenses that you can sell to your customers and priority support. But your site says professional installers can only sell licences for "Installers" can supply the My Movies software for either Windows Media Center, Windows Home Server 2011 or Windows Server 2012 Essentials so how does the EV solution now work? Maybe I just need to finish my coffee. Thanks for your contributions to this thread and site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnerup Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 When installing this, does the professional need to provide a new computer or server with my movies to rip and tag discs or can this still be the same laptop I already own and was planning to use and I use for writing my emails, watching cat videos on youtube, facebook, c4forums etc. Our current professional partners would want ot sell you a new device with this being build-in. However, there is nothing that blocks anyone from selling you a software license to yourself install and use it as a DIY'er on your laptop. I on the other hand strongly doubt that anyone have interest in being responsible for selling you anything that they install and provide support for, on your existing laptop. So, as I see it, there are two options: a) Purchase a hardware device with the functionality built-in. This could be a server, or a ripping device. Purchase a license from a dealer for you to install and manage on your own on your laptop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnerup Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 As shown in the diagram, once the metadata is passed to C4, the computer is out of the picture, the NAS drive is serving out the movie files to the popbox and being controlled by C4. Notice also that many of our partners sells products that are full storage solutions, with the purpose of replacing the NAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Our current professional partners would want ot sell you a new device with this being build-in. However, there is nothing that blocks anyone from selling you a software license to yourself install and use it as a DIY'er on your laptop. I on the other hand strongly doubt that anyone have interest in being responsible for selling you anything that they install and provide support for, on your existing laptop. So, as I see it, there are two options: a) Purchase a hardware device with the functionality built-in. This could be a server, or a ripping device. Purchase a license from a dealer for you to install and manage on your own on your laptop. So to use a quintesentially british word, the content of this page http://www.mymovies.dk/products/collection-management.aspx Is a bit "rubbish" The Collection Management has a built-in API functionality, from where you can query the My Movies database and use the metadata in various control systems such as Control4 and others to integrate your movie collection in your home setting. The Collection Management has a built-in API functionality, from where you can query the My Movies database and use the metadata in various control systems such as Control4 and others to integrate your movie collection in your home setting. But now this built-in API is not available to the professional or the end user as the professional cannot sell this version of MM and the end user cannot use the API you are marketing here. Or am I needing a second cup of coffee? The Collection Management has a built-in API functionality, from where you can query the My Movies database and use the metadata in various control systems such as Control4 and others to integrate your movie collection in your home setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Notice also that many of our partners sells products that are full storage solutions, with the purpose of replacing the NAS. What is the difference between a full storage solution (FSS) and a NAS? FSS=NAS or FSS = power hungry PC that needs more cooling and rack space and electricity and slower boot time. After all. I am not likely to take this FSS and put all my wordprocessing and email and photographs on that? So now I need to buy a second NAS / FSS when I am happy with the reliability, stability and integration of Synology NAS? You seem to be darting around the question that the schematic below will now require a dedicated PC in your new installer arrangement as the professional cannot sell the collection management licence and the machine they need to sell will have to be running WHS'11 WHS'12 Essentials or WMC. Or the professional will need to do something doubt that anyone have interest in being responsible for selling you anything that they install and provide support for, on your existing laptop. So you have effectively killed the solution schematic below whether you or EV want to admit to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnerup Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 So to use a quintesentially british word, the content of this page http://www.mymovies.dk/products/collection-management.aspx Is a bit "rubbish" The Collection Management has a built-in API functionality, from where you can query the My Movies database and use the metadata in various control systems such as Control4 and others to integrate your movie collection in your home setting. The Collection Management has a built-in API functionality, from where you can query the My Movies database and use the metadata in various control systems such as Control4 and others to integrate your movie collection in your home setting. But now this built-in API is not available to the professional or the end user as the professional cannot sell this version of MM and the end user cannot use the API you are marketing here. Or am I needing a second cup of coffee? The Collection Management has a built-in API functionality, from where you can query the My Movies database and use the metadata in various control systems such as Control4 and others to integrate your movie collection in your home setting. Go grab that cup of coffee :-) The Collection Management application, the features from the Home and Essentials Server Solution, and even the Windows Media Center product for Windows machines with Windows Media Center installed is with My Movies 5 merged into one product. This is all merged together into "My Movies 5 for Windows" for simplicity - one product, one feature set and one license option for professionals. That application is very much available for professionals to resell (once out of pre-release), and the application is available for end-users still, the same product, but for end-users without the API that is required for the Control4 / EV integration. The Collection Management will as of My Movies 5 no longer be a product, but a feature within the general "My Movies 5 for Windows" product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnerup Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 So you have effectively killed the solution schematic below whether you or EV want to admit to that? Not at all. Then you are clearly misunderstanding it. We have killed that solution as an option to be sold directly by us to end-users. Professionals continue to provide this solution as before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnerup Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 If you grab this picture, put an extra out arrow from the server and out to a Control4 controller, this is what the majority of our professional partners sell: http://www.mymovies.dk/media/30187/homeandessentials753.png The server here is the NAS device. We are trying to push our professional partners to also provide small ripping devices, where an external NAS device is used for storage, as the software does not require the storage to be on the device itself, but let's see when such devices are also a purchase option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Go grab that cup of coffee :-) The Collection Management application, the features from the Home and Essentials Server Solution, and even the Windows Media Center product for Windows machines with Windows Media Center installed is with My Movies 5 merged into one product. This is all merged together into "My Movies 5 for Windows" for simplicity - one product, one feature set and one license option for professionals. That application is very much available for professionals to resell (once out of pre-release), and the application is available for end-users still, the same product, but for end-users without the API that is required for the Control4 / EV integration. The Collection Management will as of My Movies 5 no longer be a product, but a feature within the general "My Movies 5 for Windows" product. Not at all. Then you are clearly misunderstanding it. We have killed that solution as an option to be sold directly by us to end-users. Professionals continue to provide this solution as before. Thank you, your first of these posts explained this well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 If you grab this picture, put an extra out arrow from the server and out to a Control4 controller, this is what the majority of our professional partners sell: http://www.mymovies.dk/media/30187/homeandessentials753.png The server here is the NAS device. We are trying to push our professional partners to also provide small ripping devices, where an external NAS device is used for storage, as the software does not require the storage to be on the device itself, but let's see when such devices are also a purchase option. So I see a market opening here to make small shuttle PC to run the collection management with a blu ray built in. Tiny SS HDD as the only onboard storage to rip and tag leaving the play to C4/NAS/Video Device (popcorn etc) Of course that still means I would need to aquire another box. What are your deadlines on this. I assume as your website is still marketing in the way I show above I can go spend $100 on 2500 points and then email you to unlock the API to me as an end user when MM5 comes along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 While we are on the subject, and since the diagram was posted, my understanding is the Mede8er device works just as well as everything on the right side of that diagram, its just new enough that EV hasn't updated much on their website to reflect any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnerup Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 What is the difference between a full storage solution (FSS) and a NAS? FSS=NAS or FSS = power hungry PC that needs more cooling and rack space and electricity and slower boot time. After all. I am not likely to take this FSS and put all my wordprocessing and email and photographs on that? It surely depends a lot on how the products are build - I believe that a proper build server solution can be near (not fully) as power efficient as a dedicated NAS device, and boot just as fast. The servers supplied by most of our professional partners are build with expandable hardware raid solutions, so it technically does not differ much from a NAS device in that relation. However, as mentioned, we, as well as many others would like to see our partners create small ripping devices, instead of only the full servers, as many users, as you, prefer to use the external NAS devices, which the software solution operates with fully. The only down-side to that solution is that you then have two devices, the NAS and the ripping device, taking up power - the point is that the software is designed to be on a dedicated headless device, where everyone, no matter how technical they are, can just feed it with discs, and be done with it. Then instead of a desktop PC with a monitor, you can see status of copies, and everything else on your mobile device, or, receive alerts from the server through e-mail. This is just to explain that when everyone is thining of a desktop PC, this is not what the majority of our current professional partners provides. The videos Extra Vetables have created around their driver is made around the Collection Management program, which is a manual data editor, and not an automated process. I think they made the videos around that, because that was easier to understand for the dealers, where, in our opinion, the power product lies in what is now being included into My Movies 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 What are your deadlines on this. I assume as your website is still marketing in the way I show above I can go spend $100 on 2500 points and then email you to unlock the API to me as an end user when MM5 comes along. That was covered a few pages back. You're at least in the grey area now, because you haven't purchased yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnerup Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 While we are on the subject, and since the diagram was posted, my understanding is the Mede8er device works just as well as everything on the right side of that diagram, its just new enough that EV hasn't updated much on their website to reflect any of that. I believe that this is the case, yes - the software solution stores meta-data for various of devices, but when using the Control4 and EV solution, it is my understanding that you fully bypass browsing meta-data on the playback device, and instead remotely launch the playback. There is a similar functionality in our own mobile applications, and that specifically supports only the Windows Media Center and Dune devices - from what I know, EV in case of the use of our mobile applications simply sends the commands to whatever player they support, based on what our mobile application sends to the EV driver, but now we are getting technical :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I'm suggesting the shuttle ripper would not be always on, just like the bulk loader in your picture is not always installed. You have a long education process for your user base ahead of you. Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turls Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 The videos Extra Vetables have created around their driver is made around the Collection Management program, which is a manual data editor, and not an automated process. I think they made the videos around that, because that was easier to understand for the dealers, where, in our opinion, the power product lies in what is now being included into My Movies 5. Just to be clear, we can still manage/rip everything manually with MM5 and none of that functionality will be taken away (or moved into the "cloud" which worked out not so well for me and my DVD Profiler import)? I have never had any luck with automation, and besides, different types of media require different types of ripping, which the automatic solution dumbs down way too much for my taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 That was covered a few pages back. You're at least in the grey area now, because you haven't purchased yet.Grey yet that is how it is marketed. To market something today as usable one way and not usable that way in 40 days is pretty illegal in Europe. I read a few pages back but it does not reconcile to the content on their website. Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnerup Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 So I see a market opening here to make small shuttle PC to run the collection management with a blu ray built in. Tiny SS HDD as the only onboard storage to rip and tag leaving the play to C4/NAS/Video Device (popcorn etc) Of course that still means I would need to aquire another box. What are your deadlines on this. I assume as your website is still marketing in the way I show above I can go spend $100 on 2500 points and then email you to unlock the API to me as an end user when MM5 comes along. As an end user, we are passed that deadline - the current website information is for the currently available product (My Movies 4), and will be changed prior to the release of My Movies 5. Since the information is now out that we are deprecating this, we are going to upgrade only users who purchased at a time where they did not know, and you do know - this have been specified very exact in another part of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 As an end user, we are passed that deadline - the current website information is for the currently available product (My Movies 4), and will be changed prior to the release of My Movies 5. Since the information is now out that we are deprecating this, we are going to upgrade only users who purchased at a time where they did not know, and you do know - this have been specified very exact in another part of the thread.please provide a link on your website where it details that. Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnerup Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I'm suggesting the shuttle ripper would not be always on, just like the bulk loader in your picture is not always installed. And this is where it becomes more ideal to have only the server device, because some of the functionality of the device will not be as user friendly if the device is not on. Examples are that you at all times can have the mobile devices connected to the server or ripping device, whatever device you choose it to be, and you can see lists of what have copied, the statuses of these, and, you can then directly play the converted titles on the mobile device, or, play it on a Chromecast or similar. If you have a device that is not always on, that is at least not as simple as when the device is on. Agreed that we might need to consider this an area to extend our wake on lan features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binnerup Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 please provide a link on your website where it details that. That information is not yet available, just like the product that this discussion is based on is not yet available. The whole discussion is around an upcoming product change, for a product we have sent out to our partners and users for initial reviews (pre-release). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.