Relliom Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 23 hours ago, thegreatheed said: They are still being sold today. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-24-class-23-5-8-diag--led-720p-hdtv-black/8451121.p?id=1219336312946&skuId=8451121 And that's a SAMSUNG, not a chinese knockoff. At Best Buy, not JimBobsWarehouse.com. The point is that the UI gains next to nothing from going to 1080p, but it could potentially lose compatibility. The UI is a set of static images-custom designed for the video output that exists today. There is almost no user experience gain from going to 1080p. Will it happen someday? I'm sure it will. Oh, and the advertising is not misleading in today's market. The market in question is not iPads and Galaxys. The market in question is home automation, and the T3 screens absolutely have nice, high-resolution displays compared to their predecessors. Righto. You might as well say that the first Iphone still has a wonderful high resolution colour screen compared its predecessor phones. Lets call it for what it is, a tablet. And by golly, it's far behind in the tablet market (unless you'd like to call it a digital photoframe). Additionally, i'd like to add that I was speaking as to the relevance of his claim. Emphasis on relevance not the claim of whether 720ps are still being sold (which I believe they are). My point was just that similar to how DVDs are still being sold on Amazon today, just because they're being sold doesnt make them relevant anymore. I beg to differ on the user experience gain. I think a sharper, clearer UI will always greatly benefit the user. If not we might as well stopped improving past 1080p for all our HD videos. Additionally, as previously discussed, compatibility is not an issue since the device can dynamically output tv resolutions based on the tv model. A 1080p tv will get 1080p, a 720p tv will get 720p. And think about this logically, if you have several thousand bucks to burn on control systems but cant afford a rudimentary 1080p tv today - God i'd be shocked. My point is that this has been long due and long deserved (especially with the prices C4 is charging for its controllers and tablets). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onesunnyday Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 If you compare the look of the UI on one of the new Control4 screens Vs. an iPad mini 4 would one look better then the other. The reason i ask is that for the price of a control4 screen I could buy an iPad mini + wall dock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 the return on 1080p vs 720p is minimal especially at a normal sitting distance. The TV companies need to make TV's a commodity and push sales, every few years they need to catch you on a new "thing" so you want to upgrade. Science shows the human eye can barely discern the difference. you may think you see a difference, but that is because you want to see it. http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/720p-vs-1080p-can-you-tell-the-difference-between-hdtv-resolutions/ http://lifehacker.com/can-you-tell-the-difference-between-720p-1080p-and-4k-1731323537 And that starts with 20'' displays, so do not even worry about tablets and the like. those improvements to visuals I can see for movies and main content. For an icon of a thermostat or icon of a door lock; I dont konw like others said, give me other innovations and I am sure the newer controllers, when needed, will supply higher resolutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Quote Additionally, as previously discussed, compatibility is not an issue since the device can dynamically output tv resolutions based on the tv model As previously discussed - it doesn't. Quote I beg to differ on the user experience gain. I think a sharper, clearer UI will always greatly benefit the user. You differ not in that a sharper UI will benefit - but in the opinion that at a higher rez the UI would actually look any better. It won't. And that's not even really an opinion. Quote And think about this logically, if you have several thousand bucks to burn on control systems but cant afford a rudimentary 1080p tv today - God i'd be shocked. I'll go tell my client base that they really should toss out all their existing TVs and pay several thousand more to replace them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 36 minutes ago, onesunnyday said: If you compare the look of the UI on one of the new Control4 screens Vs. an iPad mini 4 would one look better then the other. The reason i ask is that for the price of a control4 screen I could buy an iPad mini + wall dock. I'm looking at both side by side - I'd lean towards the T3. Not to mention that it's faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relliom Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 57 minutes ago, onesunnyday said: If you compare the look of the UI on one of the new Control4 screens Vs. an iPad mini 4 would one look better then the other. The reason i ask is that for the price of a control4 screen I could buy an iPad mini + wall dock. Id take the ipad mini any day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relliom Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 30 minutes ago, eggzlot said: the return on 1080p vs 720p is minimal especially at a normal sitting distance. The TV companies need to make TV's a commodity and push sales, every few years they need to catch you on a new "thing" so you want to upgrade. Science shows the human eye can barely discern the difference. you may think you see a difference, but that is because you want to see it. http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/720p-vs-1080p-can-you-tell-the-difference-between-hdtv-resolutions/ http://lifehacker.com/can-you-tell-the-difference-between-720p-1080p-and-4k-1731323537 And that starts with 20'' displays, so do not even worry about tablets and the like. those improvements to visuals I can see for movies and main content. For an icon of a thermostat or icon of a door lock; I dont konw like others said, give me other innovations and I am sure the newer controllers, when needed, will supply higher resolutions. Well buddy that's what theyve been saying since HD came out. I assure you, even with 4k vs 1080p, you can easily tell the difference in terms of sharpness. The existing 720p UI looks pixelated Honestly in this day and age id expect 1080p as a minimum on anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relliom Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 30 minutes ago, Cyknight said: As previously discussed - it doesn't. You differ not in that a sharper UI will benefit - but in the opinion that at a higher rez the UI would actually look any better. It won't. And that's not even really an opinion. I'll go tell my client base that they really should toss out all their existing TVs and pay several thousand more to replace them all. From a technical standpoint, i dont see why this cant be implemented since nearly every device out there is able to do so from the XB1 to Apple TVs and the Nvidia Shield ATV. I don't think itd be a huge challenge to implement especially for primarily static images. im looking at a 4K native UI off the Shield now and it makes a 1080p UI look like crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 14 minutes ago, Relliom said: Id take the ipad mini any day Me too, cost less, does more that on thing, plus you can play football manager while watching the TV !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 34 minutes ago, Relliom said: Well buddy that's what theyve been saying since HD came out. I assure you, even with 4k vs 1080p, you can easily tell the difference in terms of sharpness. The existing 720p UI looks pixelated Honestly in this day and age id expect 1080p as a minimum on anything. Its ok buddy - you are entitled to your own opinion as well. I am just showing scientific facts that are supported by numerous data points on many reports. People perceive to see the difference, or hear a difference with $500/ft speaker wire but the point is, the difference is minimal if anything. If people purchased a TV once every 10 years, electronic companies would hurt. So they come out with features to push new TV sets. That is a fact. Enjoy your curved 4k UHD HD OLED 2.2 compliant TV. HGTV will look blissfully perfect. Heck most cable TV content is still not even recorded or broadcast in 1080p; most is in 720p. The point is, MOST C4 people interface with the system via tablets, phones or C4 touch screens and the resolution is pointless for those devices, 720p v 1080p. For TVs, it really needs to be a large tv (in the 60'' range) and sitting 8'+ away before you would really gain any benefit. It is better to put C4's limited money and R&D in other areas. and as others said, when a new controller is released, it will likely have the higher spec. Their Matrix is 4k compliant, so where they see the need for high res products, they release what is needed to market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relliom Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 8 hours ago, eggzlot said: Its ok buddy - you are entitled to your own opinion as well. I am just showing scientific facts that are supported by numerous data points on many reports. People perceive to see the difference, or hear a difference with $500/ft speaker wire but the point is, the difference is minimal if anything. If people purchased a TV once every 10 years, electronic companies would hurt. So they come out with features to push new TV sets. That is a fact. Enjoy your curved 4k UHD HD OLED 2.2 compliant TV. HGTV will look blissfully perfect. Heck most cable TV content is still not even recorded or broadcast in 1080p; most is in 720p. The point is, MOST C4 people interface with the system via tablets, phones or C4 touch screens and the resolution is pointless for those devices, 720p v 1080p. For TVs, it really needs to be a large tv (in the 60'' range) and sitting 8'+ away before you would really gain any benefit. It is better to put C4's limited money and R&D in other areas. and as others said, when a new controller is released, it will likely have the higher spec. Their Matrix is 4k compliant, so where they see the need for high res products, they release what is needed to market. I take your point with the $500 cables but I can assure you for images within typical viewing distances, 1080p makes a huge difference over 720p. Not sure where you're located but over here most tv content is 1080p as well. My tv is 55" (which is by no means considered large anymore in today's day and age) (along with a 100" 2.35:1 Stewart Studiotek130 G3 Screen at a distance of 2m-3m). 720p is clearly jaggy and pixelated at this distance. If anything, I would say that the resolution difference would be even more apparent on tablet since its used at such close distances. You're speaking as if scaling up to a 1080p UI will take alot of R&D. It's not anything groundbreaking and as a software developer and IT professional myself, I dont see it taking too much in the way of resources. If anything, it should be one of the simplest releases to implement. I look forward to this new controller! I believe it will attract many who are sitting on the fence and as part of their target demographic, I can safely say that this is "needed" in the market today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 The 4 major networks are either 720p or 1080i. most are 1080i nothing is 1080p. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_television_in_the_United_States At a certain distance the difference in the resolution is barely a difference. I just do not think someone says "well I was going to drop $10k+ on Control4 but because the interface is not HD I am going to pass up on it". I just do not see that demographic sitting on the fence over this topic. In fact most Control4 users (This forums is NOT the norm) probably has no clue and they have heard of 4k but would not know the difference or that they have a 4k tv but no 4k content or 1080p but their cable service is still 720p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Quote I believe it will attract many who are sitting on the fence and as part of their target demographic, I can safely say that this is "needed" in the market today. I can safely say that anyone who is on the fence on Control4 will not jump over because an on-screen gets updated to 1080p from 720p. Quote but I can assure you for images within typical viewing distances, 1080p makes a huge difference over 720p You can assure me of this - but there there are a few dozen tests done that assure me otherwise. Understand that I'd have no specific issue with it going up - but you still completely ignore that on static images the difference of a simple 'scale' will make almost 0 difference. Curious if you understand that your 1080p TV is already scaling that 720 GUI to 1080p... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Don't forget that it isn't just resolution, the newest formats, like 4K, have more colour bits as well. And when you look at that chart it depends on screen size and sitting distance. I have an 80" screen and sit about 9' away do according to this chart I will notice a difference, even between 1080p and 4K/2160p. But my TV is currently only 1080p. away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 But remember this is for video and native video content. A static UI with images that scale will likely be much less noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relliom Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 22 hours ago, eggzlot said: The 4 major networks are either 720p or 1080i. most are 1080i nothing is 1080p. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_television_in_the_United_States At a certain distance the difference in the resolution is barely a difference. I just do not think someone says "well I was going to drop $10k+ on Control4 but because the interface is not HD I am going to pass up on it". I just do not see that demographic sitting on the fence over this topic. In fact most Control4 users (This forums is NOT the norm) probably has no clue and they have heard of 4k but would not know the difference or that they have a 4k tv but no 4k content or 1080p but their cable service is still 720p. I live outside of the USA. Going by the charts below, I am in the range where (55", 6-7 feet) 4k become beneficial even. So I would say that a 1080p UI would benefit me and others with such distances greatly. As to your second point, no I do not think so but imagine a scenario where the UI just looks cheap and outdated as opposed to its competition eg. Savant (which has a very polished UI). That might push the customer base over since this is purely a luxury good. Where I live, most of the C4 clients are well-heeled enthusiasts themselves and definitely know the difference between 4k and 1080p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relliom Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 18 hours ago, zaphod said: Don't forget that it isn't just resolution, the newest formats, like 4K, have more colour bits as well. And when you look at that chart it depends on screen size and sitting distance. I have an 80" screen and sit about 9' away do according to this chart I will notice a difference, even between 1080p and 4K/2160p. But my TV is currently only 1080p. away. That's the beauty of technology, it keeps improving. Kudos to companies that push this frontier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relliom Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 22 hours ago, Cyknight said: I can safely say that anyone who is on the fence on Control4 will not jump over because an on-screen gets updated to 1080p from 720p. You can assure me of this - but there there are a few dozen tests done that assure me otherwise. Understand that I'd have no specific issue with it going up - but you still completely ignore that on static images the difference of a simple 'scale' will make almost 0 difference. Curious if you understand that your 1080p TV is already scaling that 720 GUI to 1080p... Even the graphic previously posted clearly shows that at my distance 6-7 feet and with a tv 55", the benefit of 1080p is fully apparent. Perhaps it would not turn over anyone as a sole factor but having equipment and a system thats up to date especially for luxury goods as such, will definitely influence the purchase decision. Static image or dynamic image otherwise, 1080p makes a difference. Btw, upscaled is a far cry from native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Quote Even the graphic previously posted clearly shows that at my distance 6-7 feet and with a tv 55", the benefit of 1080p is fully apparent That scale is based on movement, not static images of ICONS. You are, however, clearly convinced against all convention that the current on-screen becoming 1080p is going to make a world of difference to you. Even if that ignores the fact that your main focal point was tablets not onscreen. I'm not crazy - the world is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Africa C4 user Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I must say that I agree with those who say it will make little difference on the Touchscreens... But it would be nice on OSD especially when using the OSD on, say, a large projected screen. Is it a priority though - not really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relliom Posted January 24, 2016 Author Share Posted January 24, 2016 14 hours ago, Cyknight said: You are, however, clearly convinced against all convention that the current on-screen becoming 1080p is going to make a world of difference to you. I believe that until we hit retina levels of PPI, we are definitely going to see a major improvement with every iteration of resolution improvements. Whether static or moving images, I believe that the difference is definitely visible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 new controllers are 1080p... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 26 minutes ago, msgreenf said: new controllers are 1080p... whew, now this will look glorious!! rejoice! sales will pick up with those on the fence....C4 will be saved one should be more excited to see what else the controllers offer. Any other word? That link in the other thread was vague but I'll keep an eye there. Other than a built in switch I did not see much to differentiate it from the current lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecodeman Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Lots of audio, faster processors, I/o is more flexible, new interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 and direct linking to video services! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.