New C4 install Overkill?

[Cycleguy0623]

I have a local integrator setting up our new house with tv's a theater room and C4. They initially started with an EA-5 but now want to add 4 Ea1's. One for each TV location in the home. This just seams like overkill on the surface but i guess there could be a need for it. Can anyone confirm that this could be a necessary system component?

[sonic30101]

They could be needed, you might be able to value engineer it and delete a few of them with drawbacks. If there are IR or serial devices. It gives you on screen but probably most important is zigbee transmitters for the remotes, lights, thermostats, etc for range. Depending on wiring and footprint of the house for coverage some might be able to he deleted but those are factors we don't know 100%

[Cycleguy0623]

That makes perfect since, Thank you! I do not want to compromise the system for a little initial savings I just needed to know why.

[BraydonH]

I usually dont use secondary controllers. I usually would spec in an EA5 and an IOX. The IOX is nice because you know you will never need to replace it in the future with a "newer controller" because its not a controller at all. But without the controllers you would likely lose the ability to have the C4 interface on the TVs. I'm not a huge fan on the c4 interface on the TVs anyways.

And I guess maybe for zigbee meshing, but once again usually an EA5 with the antenna kit and some lighting throughout the house is plenty. Unless the house is using alot of very dense building materials. And having 5 separate zigbee networks for each room of the house could be an issue too.

So I personally do think 1 EA1 for every TV might be a bit overkill. Depends what your trying to accomplish.

[Cycleguy0623]

39 minutes ago, BraydonH said:

I usually dont use secondary controllers. I usually would spec in an EA5 and an IOX. The IOX is nice because you know you will never need to replace it in the future with a "newer controller" because its not a controller at all. But without the controllers you would likely lose the ability to have the C4 interface on the TVs. I'm not a huge fan on the c4 interface on the TVs anyways.

And I guess maybe for zigbee meshing, but once again usually an EA5 with the antenna kit and some lighting throughout the house is plenty. Unless the house is using alot of very dense building materials. And having 5 separate zigbee networks for each room of the house could be an issue too.

So I personally do think 1 EA1 for every TV might be a bit overkill. Depends what your trying to accomplish.

I think you IOX idea makes much more since. I do not plan to use the C4 interface on a TV. They were pitching it as needed in the theater room as well as the 5.1 area in our living room. It would make much more since to buy the IOX and some light switches from the sound of it. The house is built pretty dense so i could see a need to improve the network a little.

[lippavisual]

Way too many unknowns about your project, house, etc to give any reason why.  All anyone can do at this point is guess.  

[eggzlot]

as mentioned too many unknowns.  are you using a matrix?  how are they controlling the TVs (IP, Serial, IR, etc)

do you need zigbee signal extended to other areas of the house?

[zaphod]

Do you even need IOXs in each room if you are getting new TVs and have the option of getting IP controlled TVs, Rokus and AVRs(if requried)? 

What video sources will you be using?  Rokus?  AppleTVs? Cable or satellite boxes?

[BraydonH]

No, not an IOX in each room. An IOX in the central Rack with the EA5 then splice the IR's over a cat5e going to each room. So just 1 iox and 1 ea5 both central. nothing in each room.

 

the main thing you would use the IOX for is IR outputs. Alot of things still IR controlled. Like cable boxes, blu rays, older TVs, and even AppleTVs (even though there is an IP driver IR is my recommendation.) The EA5 already has 8 IR outs. So you might want to count up just how many IR devices you will have. With an EA5 and IOX you could have 16 IR outs which is quite a lot.

[ekohn00]

Over the last 12+ years of having C4, we changed over time. 

Went from using a E1 (or previously 300/350s) at every TV because of all the IR and onscreen menus to only a few by the TV. I don't think we've ever used the onscreen menus - so making the change was easy (also a savings when I moved to the EAs).

With more an more devices moving to IP, we now dropped the controllers except in the master bedroom, where we us it to stream to a local speakers and need IR to turn on the TV (missed always on IP by a year). We also kept another two  that really have no purpose except for zigbee. 

 

[Cyknight]

4 hours ago, lippavisual said:

Way too many unknowns about your project, house, etc to give any reason why.  All anyone can do at this point is guess.  

This really.

There may be every reason for it, there may be better ways of doing it.

The thread already states several reasons on why it may be required.

A dense house built with reinforced cinderblock walls is going to need them for ZigBee

Dealer may just be following standard C4 recommendation (controller at every TV)

Local amplification needing audio feeds

 

But it's all guesses. Try and get the dealer to explain the reasoning, maybe we can give a better idea.

 

[Cycleguy0623]

Thanks you for all the help guys. It sounds like the dealer was following the Control 4 recommendation. We do have a very heavily insulated home (the original owner insulated the interior walls with spray foam.) which is another reason he gave to increase signal strength.  The house covers 6k sqf and has 36 speakers in the distribution system with ip control of tv's. We plan to add video distribution as well as full electrical control down the line as well and i have asked him to prep for that on the original build. 

[lippavisual]

ALWAYS....more to the story.

Instead of running a bunch of cables to a room, a single Ethernet cable for a controller nets you music streaming (over HDMI in this case) device control, on screen nav, zigbee radio, IO ports.

 

[Cycleguy0623]

That makes complete since there. One cable run in an existing house verses many.

[Crustyloafer]

We do the same where possible, EA-3 or EA-5 in rack for main control and audio streaming duties, EA-1 - PoE version behind each TV for OSD, ZigBee and local IR control.

The whole system runs more stable, remotes respond instantly and OSD is for that room exclusively as it should be. 

This is how you put a Control4 system together according to best practice recommendations and it works. Anything else will be a compromise somewhere.

I've been to loads of jobs where the original integrator has tried to run everything from a single centralised controller, splicing IR from it to remote TVs, sharing OSDs between multiple rooms via a matrix and stretching ZigBee range to its limits. None of them worked well or reliably.

Do it right first time.

[msgreenf]

Or use IP control4 for most tvs. Osd is junk. 1 have 1 additional ea1 for zserver 

 

[eggzlot]

Agree on osd.  It looks cool in marketing material.  But with phone apps, remotes, keypads on walls, touchscreens, voice, sensors etc it rarely gets used

we used to use it only to fix hvac settings at night and we were in bed.  And as of os3 last I checked they removed hvac and didn’t replace it so I haven’t used osd in over a year 

[Cycleguy0623]

Thank you all for the replies. It seems like the right call is to go with the EA1 at each TV for extra flexibility and reliability. I don't really plan on using the OSD so that is really a non issue for me.