Home retrofit advice

[salum]

Hello All,

I'm looking to do whole home automation, and I was hoping to get advice/suggestions from this expert community. I humbly admit my knowledge is limited, but thats why I am here to ask for suggestions.  

I'm looking to do whole home automation.    I currently have about 14 TVs in the home, 11 of which are wired with component, cat5e, and coax.  3 only have coax.  I'm looking to expand in the future with a finished playroom/theater, where I'd add maybe 3 more TV's for a gaming area and dedicated home theater.  Out of those 14 TVs, we will probably use 4 fairly regularly, maybe 5 once the playroom/theater is finished.

Currently the home has an RTI component 6x6 video matrix with RTI controllers, but that is now old equipment.

I've decided to use control4 for my home automation.  I wanted a unified app that controls every part of my home (lights, music, TV, security, cameras, and HVAC).  First problem I encountered is I have a carrier infinity system, which doesnt play well with control4, so now my unified solution is no more.  I've had some dealers say that I should keep my security separate, because if something goes wrong with control4, my security will still function.  I've read mixed things about this since control4 is just controlling it, and if it goes down, my security should still function fine.  So I'm ok with integration into control4.

The 3 main issues I'm encountering and would like advice on:

1) Networking gear.  Some of my dealers use ubiquiti (and I save significant money which I can put towards the purchase of OTHER equipment).  Or I can just purchase more access points.  I know that its on the do not use list, but from what I understand, its because there are more advanced features that need configuring that some dealers may not know how to do.  Some of my dealers love ubiquiti, and have in fact moved away from pakedge.  Some of my dealers swear against it, including some folks in this forum.  This is where my knowledge is limited (I don't understand multicasting, vlans, subnets, etc).  Thats all foreign language to me.  Also, can too many access points be a bad thing and cause interference?  I have used ubiquiti in my previous home, and I have had great success.  But my previous home had DIY products.  And I understand my limitations as a consumer, and need something that just works and has no issues.

1B) Should I run new cat6 cabling around the home for wifi 6?  Should I run new cabling into TV locations?  Is fiber worth it, or too delicate?  I understand fiber can be overkill, but if I plan on living in this house for 20+ years, is it worth it for future proofing or just redo wiring when the time is right.  Is fiber worth it since you can get HDMI over IP with visually lossless compression that doesnt need 18gbps?  But I know myself, I want to get everything done now and probably will not want to upgrade stuff in the future as it requires a lot of work.  We just moved into the house and have projects we want to do now, so we are motivated.  We may not be motivated in the future.

2) Lighting.  I had a quote from control4 lighting and lutron lighting.  Lutron was about twice the price, but if you factor in the cost of the control4 EA-5 controller, the price difference decreases.  The reason I say this is because if I get locked into control4, its game over if I leave the ecosystem.  But lutron I have a safety net in that if my control4 causes issues or im dissatisfied, I can still have my lutron lights functioning.  I don't see myself switching automation brands (going from control4 to savant or creation), but who knows.  If anything, I may go back down to nothing and just have a bunch of smart controls (since my HVAC will be separate, security can be separate, lights can be separate, etc).  So in your experiences, is it best to just save money and go the control4 route because its really worth it to save money?

3) Audio matrix:  I have in ceiling speakers in most my rooms with TVs.  I want the TV's to play sound into those speakers and not the TV itself.  So I was quoted for audio extractors that would tie into my sound system. Here is where my knowledge is limited.  If my TV's have 1 data port, wouldnt that be providing the internet to the Apple TV or smart tvs?  Or can you run both data and audio extraction onto the same cat5e data port.  Is there bandwidth issues?  Or do they extract audio and send it through the component wiring? Is that going to cause audio delays with the picture?   I'm completely ok with Apple TV's at every location as long as there is no audio delay with respect to the video.

4) Video matrix:  It's something I don't need, but part of me wants.  I was ok with putting Apple TV's on each TV, and expanding in the future as I see fit.  But I've been told by one dealer that the Apple TV software updates can cause issues with control4.  I don't like Roku because of the ads.  And also, I have most apple products, so I like to stay within their ecosystem. Would it be nice to have a rack mounted his, hers, and kids Apple TV?  sure.  But I do not want a video matrix because I like to have flexibility for expandability.  What if I decide I want another tv on the matrix, but im stick at 6x6.  But most importantly, video matrixes at $5000+ are not worth the price.  But if I started out with 2-3 TV's with HDMI over IP?  Could that be more reasonably priced?  Maybe 8k is more standard in 4-6 years, so is it not worth it since the equipment will be antiquated by then?  But at what point do you say hey, 8k isn't worth it, my eyes can't tell the difference between 4k and 8k on my 55" kitchen TV.

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated, as it will certainly help me make my decision.  Thank you!

 

 

 

[eggzlot]

40 minutes ago, salum said:

Hello All,

I'm looking to do whole home automation, and I was hoping to get advice/suggestions from this expert community. I humbly admit my knowledge is limited, but thats why I am here to ask for suggestions.  

I'm looking to do whole home automation.    I currently have about 14 TVs in the home, 11 of which are wired with component, cat5e, and coax.  3 only have coax.  I'm looking to expand in the future with a finished playroom/theater, where I'd add maybe 3 more TV's for a gaming area and dedicated home theater.  Out of those 14 TVs, we will probably use 4 fairly regularly, maybe 5 once the playroom/theater is finished.

Currently the home has an RTI component 6x6 video matrix with RTI controllers, but that is now old equipment.

I've decided to use control4 for my home automation.  I wanted a unified app that controls every part of my home (lights, music, TV, security, cameras, and HVAC).  First problem I encountered is I have a carrier infinity system, which doesnt play well with control4, so now my unified solution is no more.  I've had some dealers say that I should keep my security separate, because if something goes wrong with control4, my security will still function.  I've read mixed things about this since control4 is just controlling it, and if it goes down, my security should still function fine.  So I'm ok with integration into control4.

The 3 main issues I'm encountering and would like advice on:

1) Networking gear.  Some of my dealers use ubiquiti (and I save significant money which I can put towards the purchase of OTHER equipment).  Or I can just purchase more access points.  I know that its on the do not use list, but from what I understand, its because there are more advanced features that need configuring that some dealers may not know how to do.  Some of my dealers love ubiquiti, and have in fact moved away from pakedge.  Some of my dealers swear against it, including some folks in this forum.  This is where my knowledge is limited (I don't understand multicasting, vlans, subnets, etc).  Thats all foreign language to me.  Also, can too many access points be a bad thing and cause interference?  I have used ubiquiti in my previous home, and I have had great success.  But my previous home had DIY products.  And I understand my limitations as a consumer, and need something that just works and has no issues.

1B) Should I run new cat6 cabling around the home for wifi 6?  Should I run new cabling into TV locations?  Is fiber worth it, or too delicate?  I understand fiber can be overkill, but if I plan on living in this house for 20+ years, is it worth it for future proofing or just redo wiring when the time is right.  Is fiber worth it since you can get HDMI over IP with visually lossless compression that doesnt need 18gbps?  But I know myself, I want to get everything done now and probably will not want to upgrade stuff in the future as it requires a lot of work.  We just moved into the house and have projects we want to do now, so we are motivated.  We may not be motivated in the future.

2) Lighting.  I had a quote from control4 lighting and lutron lighting.  Lutron was about twice the price, but if you factor in the cost of the control4 EA-5 controller, the price difference decreases.  The reason I say this is because if I get locked into control4, its game over if I leave the ecosystem.  But lutron I have a safety net in that if my control4 causes issues or im dissatisfied, I can still have my lutron lights functioning.  I don't see myself switching automation brands (going from control4 to savant or creation), but who knows.  If anything, I may go back down to nothing and just have a bunch of smart controls (since my HVAC will be separate, security can be separate, lights can be separate, etc).  So in your experiences, is it best to just save money and go the control4 route because its really worth it to save money?

3) Audio matrix:  I have in ceiling speakers in most my rooms with TVs.  I want the TV's to play sound into those speakers and not the TV itself.  So I was quoted for audio extractors that would tie into my sound system. Here is where my knowledge is limited.  If my TV's have 1 data port, wouldnt that be providing the internet to the Apple TV or smart tvs?  Or can you run both data and audio extraction onto the same cat5e data port.  Is there bandwidth issues?  Or do they extract audio and send it through the component wiring? Is that going to cause audio delays with the picture?   I'm completely ok with Apple TV's at every location as long as there is no audio delay with respect to the video.

4) Video matrix:  It's something I don't need, but part of me wants.  I was ok with putting Apple TV's on each TV, and expanding in the future as I see fit.  But I've been told by one dealer that the Apple TV software updates can cause issues with control4.  I don't like Roku because of the ads.  And also, I have most apple products, so I like to stay within their ecosystem. Would it be nice to have a rack mounted his, hers, and kids Apple TV?  sure.  But I do not want a video matrix because I like to have flexibility for expandability.  What if I decide I want another tv on the matrix, but im stick at 6x6.  But most importantly, video matrixes at $5000+ are not worth the price.  But if I started out with 2-3 TV's with HDMI over IP?  Could that be more reasonably priced?  Maybe 8k is more standard in 4-6 years, so is it not worth it since the equipment will be antiquated by then?  But at what point do you say hey, 8k isn't worth it, my eyes can't tell the difference between 4k and 8k on my 55" kitchen TV.

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated, as it will certainly help me make my decision.  Thank you!

 

 

 

Networking gear - trust your dealer.  If they quote Ubiquiti they probably know how to set it up so its reliable in a C4 environment. 

If the walls are being opened you could put in smurf tube to help with future proofing wires but given the current needs, Cat5 or Cat6 an really handle just about anything

Lighting - there is also a hub you'll need for Lutron, then time from your dealer ($$) to program lutron into control4.  And the C4 lighting helps with your zigbee mesh, so if you go with lutron lighting in a big house (Seems big by your description) you'll have to add some hardware around the house to increase your zigbee mesh (zigbee is the wireless protocol used for c4 devices to communicate).  so yeah Lutron is more but will work if you rip out C4.  so that is really up to you to decide - lutron also has fancier lighting options and just more options in general.  C4 has 1 style in many colors, lutron has a ton of styles in just as many colors but you are certainly going to pay that premium and lose the ability to use lighting as a zigbee repeater.  From my brief reading Lutron also seems like a better product - I know myself and others have had a lot of issues with backlighting on the C4 lighting, the engraved keycaps can be a bit off sometimes and if you have more than 1 device in a bank good luck getting the backlighting to match.

Video Matrix - also a tough call.  Even if you put an Apple TV at each tv that is 14 apple TVs or whatever.  OS updates, password updates, adding/removing apps, you are now managing 14 devices.  Do you only do streaming or do you have cable boxes or any hard drives with content on it?  HDMI over IP can be scalable so its easy to add tvs/sources as you grow.  Jap, Snap, AV Pro and Video Storm all have options.  You can also do some fun things with security cameras, messages, video walls, etc depending on the matrix you get.  Also if you host events, having multiple TVs in sync is a really nice feature (think Super Bowl, MMA fights, Oscar parties, etc)

Audio Matrix - I need a little more clarity - are you looking to play the Apple TV audio on overhead speakers and not just the TV built in speakers?  are AVR's in the mix?  Do you want to take apple tv audio and play that audio in a non TV room (like a bathroom or patio for instance)?

[ekohn00]

9 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

Cat5 or Cat6 an really handle just about anything

There's differences. And if you're going to install, you might as well start at 6E these days. Especially if you're considering anything that would do Video over IP and want to future proof.

 

[zaphod]

10 minutes ago, ekohn00 said:

There's differences. And if you're going to install, you might as well start at 6E these days. Especially if you're considering anything that would do Video over IP and want to future proof.

And you going to want several drops per room, especially if you may want to do video distribution as you may need a dedicated run for that.

For lighting if you have C4 dimmers put in each room, rather than centralized, then you can continue to use them even if you rip out C4 in the future.  And the dimmers are one of the few things that have not been deprecated as the 1st gen C4 dimmers still work in current systems. But if you take out the controller then they will be very expensive dumb light switches.

[salum]

13 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

Networking gear - trust your dealer.  If they quote Ubiquiti they probably know how to set it up so its reliable in a C4 environment. 

If the walls are being opened you could put in smurf tube to help with future proofing wires but given the current needs, Cat5 or Cat6 an really handle just about anything

Lighting - there is also a hub you'll need for Lutron, then time from your dealer ($$) to program lutron into control4.  And the C4 lighting helps with your zigbee mesh, so if you go with lutron lighting in a big house (Seems big by your description) you'll have to add some hardware around the house to increase your zigbee mesh (zigbee is the wireless protocol used for c4 devices to communicate).  so yeah Lutron is more but will work if you rip out C4.  so that is really up to you to decide - lutron also has fancier lighting options and just more options in general.  C4 has 1 style in many colors, lutron has a ton of styles in just as many colors but you are certainly going to pay that premium and lose the ability to use lighting as a zigbee repeater.  From my brief reading Lutron also seems like a better product - I know myself and others have had a lot of issues with backlighting on the C4 lighting, the engraved keycaps can be a bit off sometimes and if you have more than 1 device in a bank good luck getting the backlighting to match.

Video Matrix - also a tough call.  Even if you put an Apple TV at each tv that is 14 apple TVs or whatever.  OS updates, password updates, adding/removing apps, you are now managing 14 devices.  Do you only do streaming or do you have cable boxes or any hard drives with content on it?  HDMI over IP can be scalable so its easy to add tvs/sources as you grow.  Jap, Snap, AV Pro and Video Storm all have options.  You can also do some fun things with security cameras, messages, video walls, etc depending on the matrix you get.  Also if you host events, having multiple TVs in sync is a really nice feature (think Super Bowl, MMA fights, Oscar parties, etc)

Audio Matrix - I need a little more clarity - are you looking to play the Apple TV audio on overhead speakers and not just the TV built in speakers?  are AVR's in the mix?  Do you want to take apple tv audio and play that audio in a non TV room (like a bathroom or patio for instance)?

Thanks for the response!

So the house is about 12,000 square feet, and will be probably about 13,200 once the playroom/theater is finished.

Networking:  I was leaning towards your suggestion here since most dealer recommended whatever they were comfortable with.  It's just I've heard a few horror stories of ubiquiti, but maybe because its more common than the dealer controlled equipment due to its price point.  But again, I've had great experience with it. 

Lighting: The few dealers I've spoken to have offered a flat project fee given the scale of my project, which is why I'm not considering the hourly basis for programming.  From what I was told, control4 can do the same lighting features as lutron...if not more.  You can program control4 keypads to do virtually anything (turn on TV to a certain channel for example)...but lutron it's strictly lighting.  But I don't intend to have my keypads do anything aside from lighting and motorized shades (which I plan to do in the future).  Again, this limits me with lutron.  I counted all my switches, dimmers, and 3-way switches...and I have approximately 178 total switches.  I'd say about now will I convert them all to control4 or lutron switches?  Highly unlikely, as there are certain switches like storage closets that do not need to be smart.  So out of those I counted about 45 dimmers and 21 switches and 41 3 way switches totaling about 107 total switches.  Do the 3-way switches count towards my total for radioRA2 200 device limit?  Or now am I in the homework's range.  Keep in mind I'll probably do 30-40 motorized curtains in the future.

Video matrix:  I'd prefer it to be scalable.  Managing 14 devices would be a pain, but our Apple TV does auto software updates, so I think its not as big of an issue.  The issue becomes audio/video syncing.  Thats my major issue.  I do like the idea of other fun things you suggested like PIP camera with doorbell or text messaging to TVs...but ultimately not sure if this is worth the cost.  

Audio Matrix- So we don't have cable.  Just Hulu, Netflix, HBO max, etc.  We only stream.  So Apple TV's, Smart TV apps is probably what we will use.  I'm ok with stereo sound in the locations we watch, so I'd want to extract audio from the Apple TV or smart TV and play it in the 2 in ceiling speakers in each of the respective rooms.  The kitchen TV, however, may need to play on more speakers (because the kitchen TV is in the breakfast nook which has 2 in ceiling speakers...but its open to the kitchen which has 2 in ceiling speakers).  Same with my office or my wife's office.  We both have 2 speakers each, so we would just play the sound through the speakers.  I don't need them to play in the TV "and" the in ceiling speakers.  Theres only 1 TV in the basement setup with 5.1 which has its own dedicated receiver.  That id want to utilize all the speakers.  Problem is that TV is in a common area where there are 2 bar TVs.  Again, audio/video matrix would be nice here to sync video and sound...but in reality, how often am I going to use the bar TVs?  Not entirely sure I can justify the cost of a matrix for this.  But I like the flexibility to be able to do it in the future....so while my dealer is working...I figure I can prepare myself in the event I change my mind.

 

 

 

[eggzlot]

34 minutes ago, ekohn00 said:

There's differences. And if you're going to install, you might as well start at 6E these days. Especially if you're considering anything that would do Video over IP and want to future proof.

 

of course there is a difference

he said the house is wired already with Cat5.  Unless he is opening up the walls and has the budget its not "required" to rip it out to replace it with Cat6 given today's distribution standards 

If the walls are open, and you have the budget sure upgrade the cables.  otherwise you can always run some smurf tubing to update to the latest and greatest later when its actually ready for prime time and you have a use for the fancy cables. 

just my two cents.

[eggzlot]

16 minutes ago, salum said:

Thanks for the response!

So the house is about 12,000 square feet, and will be probably about 13,200 once the playroom/theater is finished.

Networking:  I was leaning towards your suggestion here since most dealer recommended whatever they were comfortable with.  It's just I've heard a few horror stories of ubiquiti, but maybe because its more common than the dealer controlled equipment due to its price point.  But again, I've had great experience with it. 

Lighting: The few dealers I've spoken to have offered a flat project fee given the scale of my project, which is why I'm not considering the hourly basis for programming.  From what I was told, control4 can do the same lighting features as lutron...if not more.  You can program control4 keypads to do virtually anything (turn on TV to a certain channel for example)...but lutron it's strictly lighting.  But I don't intend to have my keypads do anything aside from lighting and motorized shades (which I plan to do in the future).  Again, this limits me with lutron.  I counted all my switches, dimmers, and 3-way switches...and I have approximately 178 total switches.  I'd say about now will I convert them all to control4 or lutron switches?  Highly unlikely, as there are certain switches like storage closets that do not need to be smart.  So out of those I counted about 45 dimmers and 21 switches and 41 3 way switches totaling about 107 total switches.  Do the 3-way switches count towards my total for radioRA2 200 device limit?  Or now am I in the homework's range.  Keep in mind I'll probably do 30-40 motorized curtains in the future.

Video matrix:  I'd prefer it to be scalable.  Managing 14 devices would be a pain, but our Apple TV does auto software updates, so I think its not as big of an issue.  The issue becomes audio/video syncing.  Thats my major issue.  I do like the idea of other fun things you suggested like PIP camera with doorbell or text messaging to TVs...but ultimately not sure if this is worth the cost.  

Audio Matrix- So we don't have cable.  Just Hulu, Netflix, HBO max, etc.  We only stream.  So Apple TV's, Smart TV apps is probably what we will use.  I'm ok with stereo sound in the locations we watch, so I'd want to extract audio from the Apple TV or smart TV and play it in the 2 in ceiling speakers in each of the respective rooms.  The kitchen TV, however, may need to play on more speakers (because the kitchen TV is in the breakfast nook which has 2 in ceiling speakers...but its open to the kitchen which has 2 in ceiling speakers).  Same with my office or my wife's office.  We both have 2 speakers each, so we would just play the sound through the speakers.  I don't need them to play in the TV "and" the in ceiling speakers.  Theres only 1 TV in the basement setup with 5.1 which has its own dedicated receiver.  That id want to utilize all the speakers.  Problem is that TV is in a common area where there are 2 bar TVs.  Again, audio/video matrix would be nice here to sync video and sound...but in reality, how often am I going to use the bar TVs?  Not entirely sure I can justify the cost of a matrix for this.  But I like the flexibility to be able to do it in the future....so while my dealer is working...I figure I can prepare myself in the event I change my mind.

 

 

 

dont know the limits well on lutron - but yes C4 can control other things other than blinds/lighting.  i use c4 keypads to control lights, music, tv, blinds and even a goodnight macro to shut down the house.  pros and cons to both for sure - from an easy/install c4 is easier.  lutron usually gets involved when there is a design aspect to their lighting you/wife/decorate likes better, or you 100% want some flexibility in case you rip out C4.  so its really your decision to make.

If you want things in sync you need a video matrix.  the other stuff like PiP, video cameras on the TV, tiling etc is just the fun stuff.

if you want audio off the local source and to be played on over head speakers you need extractors, a matrix, etc.  my question is why?  in a basic room - to me - audio is better off built in TV speakers coming straight at you vs overhead speakers that could be 8-10' high depending on the ceiling height.  to me use the TV or a sound bar or go full on 3.1 or 5.1 or 7.1 etc with an AVR.  I once tried to use some basic TV on in ceiling speakers without using the TV itself for audio and it was tough to get used to, never sounded right with audio coming from above.

[Cyknight]

33 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

in a basic room - to me - audio is better off built in TV speakers coming straight at you vs overhead speakers that could be 8-10' high depending on the ceiling height.

THAT is personal preference. If properly placed and of decent quality, ceiling speakers still beat most TVs - soundbar is an option but it's more clutter on the wall.

Regardless one could always do distribution 'in reverse' - if all you have is appleTV and local TV apps, send all audio back down from the tV itself over CAT audio baluns to an audio matrix and/or amplifiers, and sync shouldn't be an issue.

[eggzlot]

18 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

THAT is personal preference. If properly placed and of decent quality, ceiling speakers still beat most TVs - soundbar is an option but it's more clutter on the wall.

 

it is a personal preference which is why I clearly said "to me" which means it is expressly just that, a personal opinion, not a stated scientific fact.  We all know what YOU are capable of doing 

[Cyknight]

LOL. To be clear, I don't completely disagree - all too often speakers in 'video' rooms aren't placed properly for my personal taste (usually for 'visual design' reasons) - but overall, I'd say the majority of clients prefer them over the TV sound anyway.

At least for 'casual' viewing it doesn't matter too much anyway, and most of the 'sports' watcher seem to like the 'stadium' effect it tends to give.

Personally I watch little TV, but when I do I'm sitting down for it to enjoy it - but then again that is why I have 4 out of 16 zones in my house as surround zones.

[JSTRONG]

Radio RA Lutron was twice the price as Control4 lighting?

That doesnt make sense at all

 

[zaphod]

I have quickly gotten used to ceiling speakers for TV and I don't mind it all.  IMHO the best case scenario is ceiling speakers that are centrally wired for announcements and music and speakers by the TV with a surround system for "serious" viewing.  Everyone is different but I don't do that much "serious" viewing and the benefit of going all out with 7.2/Atmos, etc, is pretty marginal but I don't watch a lot of blockbuster movies.  Maybe if I did it would be a different story. 

A few months ago I pulled an AVR out of my kitchen and replaced it with a multi-zone C4 matrix amp to drive a few zones in the kitchen, plus a few other rooms/decks adjacent to the kitchen. I like the new setup better.

[cshepard]

I just came here to say that Ubiquiti (UniFi) is NOT on a “Do Not Use” list!

[salum]

Thank you guys for all the responses.

I didn't consider the sound coming from in ceiling speakers and not the TV as sounding off, but we watch TV casually.  If anything, I'll have sports on in the background.  Anytime TV has my full attention, we will probably watch in a dedicated theater once that is built.  I'm not a big fan of soundbars on every TV, as I'm not a serious audiophile.  In that case built in speakers will suffice.  But I wanted to use the in ceiling speakers just to limit clutter.

I still have to figure out if radioRa2 dimmers are compatible with homeworksQS.  It seems as though it's not.

 

[ekohn00]

7 hours ago, salum said:

I didn't consider the sound coming from in ceiling speakers and not the TV as sounding off, but we watch TV casually.

 

There are ceiling speakers that can be "aimed". They usually have angled tweeters or baskets designed specifically for this purpose.

Our house came with ceiling speakers everywhere. There's a very small home theater (now a play room) and would say on the small rooms regular ceiling speakers (downward facing sound) aren't very noticeable compared to forward facing speakers when watching tv.

I will caveat that  without a center speaker, everything is noticeable. (ie not sounding right). I personally prefer forward facing speakers vs ceiling, and find it a must for larger areas.

[Cyknight]

On 3/15/2021 at 7:14 PM, cshepard said:

I just came here to say that Ubiquiti (UniFi) is NOT on a “Do Not Use” list!

I just came here to say that Ubiquiti IS on a do not use list - but Unifi is not (Edgemax is)

[cjh]

@salum We run an all ubiquiti stack here (router=cisco) and have had zero issues. 

My 2ce on the lighting - go with c4.
 

For the video distribution, look at Just Add Power. It’s expandable! Might just be what you are seeking. Many threads here on the topic. Search JAP. http://justaddpower.com/residential-implementation.html

[ejn1]

C4 end users should create a Networking Equipment List titled the "Do Not Overpay" list...   

[AK1]

1 hour ago, ejn1 said:

C4 end users should create a Networking Equipment List titled the "Do Not Overpay" list...   

Ah that list would be for those using Orbi, Eero, older Unifi, mesh Wifi, ISP routers and the like. This is the list subtitled "Don't call us when your devices fall offline"

[AK1]

On 3/15/2021 at 1:17 PM, JSTRONG said:

Radio RA Lutron was twice the price as Control4 lighting?

That doesnt make sense at all

 

Literally priced Lutron Radio RA2 and Control4 lighting (not Essential line) yesterday for a new project. Lutron was 35% higher.

Unless there is existing Lutron lighting in the project, our view is it makes little sense to choose Radio RA2 over Control4 lighting these days when you consider the cheaper price, no need to integrate third party system which introduces potential for problems (for any third party integration), faster integration, Zigbee mesh, better / more flexible keypad programming and more choices for LED / backlight colours.

[JSTRONG]

24 minutes ago, AK1 said:

Literally priced Lutron Radio RA2 and Control4 lighting (not Essential line) yesterday for a new project. Lutron was 35% higher.

Unless there is existing Lutron lighting in the project, our view is it makes little sense to choose Radio RA2 over Control4 lighting these days when you consider the cheaper price, no need to integrate third party system which introduces potential for problems (for any third party integration), faster integration, Zigbee mesh, better / more flexible keypad programming and more choices for LED / backlight colours.

I prefer Control4 lighting also. However, if someone charged you 35% more for Lutron, then they were very much overcharging you since Lutron Dimmers areabout 20%  less then Control4

Lutron RRD-6CL-WH is $149

Control4 is $180

 

 

 

[msgreenf]

AK1 is a dealer....

[JSTRONG]

2 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

AK1 is a dealer....

Then he knows the pricing. Like i I said, I love control4 lighting and I switched from ra2 to c4 in both of my homes. 

[zaphod]

Maybe Canadian pricing is F'ed up as AK1 is in Canada.  It wouldn't be the first time that happened.

[AK1]

6 minutes ago, zaphod said:

Maybe Canadian pricing is F'ed up as AK1 is in Canada.  It wouldn't be the first time that happened.

Entirely possible -). Even if Lutron is 35% cheaper, I would still take the same view.