Fixed IP (DHCP Reservations) For Control4

[ajd123]

Should all devices Control4 communicates with be fixed/reserved via my router (Unifi Dream Machine)?

If not, are there any devices in specific that should be?

[SMHarman]

It's a decent design habit to set the lease range to 101 up and use 1-100 for controlled stuff on reservations. 

Then you always know your controller is on .99 and your nas on .10 and your switch on .1 etc. 

[dreres]

for a standard, i usually put everything that the controller will talk to on a reservation. other devices on the network that go in and out, such as laptops, iPads, phones get dhcp.

[lippavisual]

Static ip for anything your control system talks to.  Your router takes a dump and everything will not work once the dhcp lease times out.

Static IP’s will allow all devices to talk to each other just through your switches.

[ajd123]

35 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

Static ip for anything your control system talks to.  Your router takes a dump and everything will not work once the dhcp lease times out.

Static IP’s will allow all devices to talk to each other just through your switches.

So you would reserve IP's for things like Amazon Echo's, Lutron Hubs, Control4 controllers, security NVR's, TP-Link devices, Sengled devices, wattboxes, blinds, tv's etc?

If I enable "Fixed IP" in my UniFi settings is this sufficient?

[ekohn00]

7 hours ago, ajd123 said:

So you would reserve IP's for things like Amazon Echo's, Lutron Hubs, Control4 controllers, security NVR's, TP-Link devices, Sengled devices, wattboxes, blinds, tv's etc?

If I enable "Fixed IP" in my UniFi settings is this sufficient?

Fixed Ip means that your unifi dhcp server will always give the same ip address to a mac address that has been fixed. It's the way it does a DHCP reservation,

this allows you not to manually config an IP address, but maintain the same IP address given out to a device.

If your Unifi gateway goes down, you might not get the right address.

 

The major benefit of manual addresses vs DHCP or even fixed is they are always there, and the devices can be set to an IP you would always recognize.  Ie setting your plex server to 192.168.10.10

 

[ajd123]

2 minutes ago, ekohn00 said:

Fixed Ip means that your unifi dhcp server will always give the same ip address to a mac address that has been fixed. It's the way it does a DHCP reservation,

this allows you not to manually config an IP address, but maintain the same IP address given out to a device.

If your Unifi gateway goes down, you might not get the right address.

 

The major benefit of manual addresses vs DHCP or even fixed is they are always there, and the devices can be set to an IP you would always recognize.  Ie setting your plex server to 192.168.10.10

 

Thanks. I just wanted to make sure I was enabling the right setting.  I understand that fixed IP pairs a devices MAC address with a previous reserved IP address, thus ensuring the device always has the same IP.

So should I reserve the IP addresses for all the Control4 hardware as well?

[dinom]

I do  

[msgreenf]

Due to SDDP there really is no reason to reserve IPs.  But it is recommended to reserve your main controller

[lippavisual]

18 hours ago, ajd123 said:

So you would reserve IP's for things like Amazon Echo's, Lutron Hubs, Control4 controllers, security NVR's, TP-Link devices, Sengled devices, wattboxes, blinds, tv's etc?

If I enable "Fixed IP" in my UniFi settings is this sufficient?

Echos would be a no because your controller doesn’t directly connect to it.

Anything that you add an IP address for in Composer, I would statically assign.

As per above, fixed IP in Unifi is just a dhcp reservation.  In order to set devices to a static IP, you typically have to login to each device and manually set it.

SDDP isn’t a guarantee to always work.  I’ve been bitten by that many times throughout the years.  Safest bet is static IP.

This is just how I do things to reduce service calls and make my life easier.  I use particular IPs for devices when I own the network.  That way I always know where each device is at.

[RAV]

The main 'why not?' is people who don't keep good records, don't know what they're doing, and assign the same IP to multiple devices, or make typos.
So support will suggest reservations, as it's less prone to people errors.

Personally, I static all that can be that we supply using a chart so across all our projects the devices have the same IP range.
Saves me time and easier to trouble shoot, I know going in where my controller is, aps, switches, cameras, power controllers.
I typical also reserve client IOT stuff about a week after commissioning into a dedicated range, so I know what I sold and support and keep tabs on possible troublemakers.

However, if it's not my preferred network, I use reservations, especially in the mesh stuff, which I've seen have an attitude about items static at the device even outside their DHCP range.

Remember to backup your router file often when doing reservations.

[ajd123]

29 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

Echos would be a no because your controller doesn’t directly connect to it.

Anything that you add an IP address for in Composer, I would statically assign.

As per above, fixed IP in Unifi is just a dhcp reservation.  In order to set devices to a static IP, you typically have to login to each device and manually set it.

SDDP isn’t a guarantee to always work.  I’ve been bitten by that many times throughout the years.  Safest bet is static IP.

This is just how I do things to reduce service calls and make my life easier.  I use particular IPs for devices when I own the network.  That way I always know where each device is at.

So DHCP reservation via unifi (the picture above) will not achieve the desired goal?

I have to manually go into each device and set the IP from within? 

Some devices don't even allow for this (e.g. TP-LINK, Ignite Boxes, Sengled etc). 

Why would pairing the MAC address to a specific IP in router ("fixed IP") not achieve this goal?

[lippavisual]

No it does not.  That is a DHCP reservation through your router.  UniFi just calls it “fixed IP”.

so if your router gets unplugged, resets, or just stops working, all those devices will not maintain that IP address forever.  

Only manually configuring each device with a static IP will.

If you have some devices that don’t allow static assigning, first, shame on them for not allowing it.  Second, your only option from there is a dhcp reservation.

I hope those devices that don’t allow it aren’t critical for your home.

TP-Link is the only one you list that I’m familiar with and I know their network equipment allows static.  What device are you referring to with them?

[Amr]

On 5/14/2023 at 2:27 PM, ajd123 said:

Should all devices Control4 communicates with be fixed/reserved via my router (Unifi Dream Machine)?

If not, are there any devices in specific that should be?

Yes. Fix everything by assigning IP’s and reserve what is not fixable, nothing should be left to DHCP except guest devices!

[RAV]

You don't need static or reservations with Control4 unless the device driver is designed in a way that only uses the IP address for device ID.
Typically some IOT stuff.

On the other hand, its very handy, especially when servicing many different systems, to use the same address table structure. Saves a ton of time troubleshooting.

The advantage of Static is that devices can communicate WITHOUT the router being alive.
That's rare, but happens.

The advantage of Reservations is it's easy, and less prone to typos and duplicate IP addressing. And multiple servicers can log into the router and see the table.

[ajd123]

1 hour ago, lippavisual said:

No it does not.  That is a DHCP reservation through your router.  UniFi just calls it “fixed IP”.

so if your router gets unplugged, resets, or just stops working, all those devices will not maintain that IP address forever.  

Only manually configuring each device with a static IP will.

If you have some devices that don’t allow static assigning, first, shame on them for not allowing it.  Second, your only option from there is a dhcp reservation.

I hope those devices that don’t allow it aren’t critical for your home.

TP-Link is the only one you list that I’m familiar with and I know their network equipment allows static.  What device are you referring to with them?

It seems like the best approach is to create a static IP address from the device itself, and also create a DHCP reservation in the router (for the devuces with static IP addresses)?

[ajd123]

37 minutes ago, RAV said:

You don't need static or reservations with Control4 unless the device driver is designed in a way that only uses the IP address for device ID.
Typically some IOT stuff.

On the other hand, its very handy, especially when servicing many different systems, to use the same address table structure. Saves a ton of time troubleshooting.

The advantage of Static is that devices can communicate WITHOUT the router being alive.
That's rare, but happens.

The advantage of Reservations is it's easy, and less prone to typos and duplicate IP addressing. And multiple servicers can log into the router and see the table.

If you don’t mind, would you happen to have a white page or sample of the table structure you use. I’m curious to see how you do this.

[zaphod]

57 minutes ago, RAV said:

You don't need static or reservations with Control4 unless the device driver is designed in a way that only uses the IP address for device ID.
Typically some IOT stuff.

On the other hand, its very handy, especially when servicing many different systems, to use the same address table structure. Saves a ton of time troubleshooting.

The advantage of Static is that devices can communicate WITHOUT the router being alive.
That's rare, but happens.

The advantage of Reservations is it's easy, and less prone to typos and duplicate IP addressing. And multiple servicers can log into the router and see the table.

The other advantage of reservations is that everything is done through the same UI (for example, Unifi Controller) sitting at a PC with a keyboard, rather than having to poke through the network setting menus of devices like TVs, Rokus, X-Boxes, AVRs, and setting static IPs with crappy remotes, etc.

But then if that router dies and you can't restore it, or you decide to change brands of router, then you are in for a lot of work.

[RAV]

2-9 Switches
10-19 Power
20-29 Surveillance (most often a VLAN)
30-39 Audio Ends
40-49  Audio Source
50-59 Video Ends
60-69 Video Source
70-79 UI
80-89 C4
90-99 Nas/Matrix/Server types
100-199 DHCP Range
200-219 Client Stuff (printers etc)
220-229 Holding (items we think are or could be a problem or have something odd about them)
230-239 Other Contractor's Stuff (generators, alarm, water, etc)
240-254 APs

Rooms get assigned a number. Rack gets 0
Thus 12, 32, 52, 62, 72, 82, 242 Would be Bedroom Watt, Bedroom Amp, Bedroom TV, Bedroom Apple, Bedroom Touch, Bedroom Processor, Bedroom AP
and 38, 58, 68 are Guest SoundBar, TV, Apple

Maybe not the layout I'd do today, but it's what we've done since forever.

 

[ajd123]

5 minutes ago, zaphod said:

The other advantage of reservations is that everything is done through the same UI (for example, Unifi Controller) sitting at a PC with a keyboard, rather than having to poke through the network setting menus of devices like TVs, Rokus, X-Boxes, AVRs, and setting static IPs with crappy remotes, etc.

But then if that router dies and you can't restore it, or you decide to change brands of router, then you are in for a lot of work.

I will make a backup of my router settings that can be restored in the event of a failure. I also like the idea of reserving DHCP via the router as it really did simplify things. My question is whether or not this is sufficient for Control4 to avoid future communication issues between Control4 and the device?

 

[penn65000]

41 minutes ago, ajd123 said:

I will make a backup of my router settings that can be restored in the event of a failure. I also like the idea of reserving DHCP via the router as it really did simplify things. My question is whether or not this is sufficient for Control4 to avoid future communication issues between Control4 and the device?

 

Why would C4 need to assign any IPs? I don’t think we have any static IPs for C4 stuff and our system working fine. Original installer had static ips for Apple TVs and we upgraded the Apple TVs — they weren’t  working so I just removed the static ip. They get assigned and all fine. We’ve a boatload of devices and all of it works. 

[lippavisual]

Because when a router fails, and they do fail, system stops working.  Between shitty provided power supplies and post-Covid manufacturing, everything is a ticking time bomb.

Then you get panic calls.  Guess what, can’t login remotely because the router failed.  Now a truck rolls.  Time and money is why I and Rav above, do what we do.

Same can be said why would you install a backup power generator?  My power never goes out!!

[zaphod]

1 hour ago, penn65000 said:

Why would C4 need to assign any IPs? I don’t think we have any static IPs for C4 stuff and our system working fine. Original installer had static ips for Apple TVs and we upgraded the Apple TVs — they weren’t  working so I just removed the static ip. They get assigned and all fine. We’ve a boatload of devices and all of it works. 

It doesn't happen often, but I have had issues.  Like my Roku TV gets assigned a new IP and it is controlled by C4 using IP control.  The same thing has happened to few other devices.

[ajd123]

24 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

Because when a router fails, and they do fail, system stops working.  Between shitty provided power supplies and post-Covid manufacturing, everything is a ticking time bomb.

Then you get panic calls.  Guess what, can’t login remotely because the router failed.  Now a truck rolls.  Time and money is why I and Rav above, do what we do.

Same can be said why would you install a backup power generator?  My power never goes out!!

So back to my last question, should the IP address’s be set to static from wothin the device AND should those devices also have a fixed DHCP address setup from within the router?
 

[zaphod]

2 hours ago, RAV said:

2-9 Switches
10-19 Power
20-29 Surveillance (most often a VLAN)
30-39 Audio Ends
40-49  Audio Source
50-59 Video Ends
60-69 Video Source
70-79 UI
80-89 C4
90-99 Nas/Matrix/Server types
100-199 DHCP Range
200-219 Client Stuff (printers etc)
220-229 Holding (items we think are or could be a problem or have something odd about them)
230-239 Other Contractor's Stuff (generators, alarm, water, etc)
240-254 APs

Rooms get assigned a number. Rack gets 0
Thus 12, 32, 52, 62, 72, 82, 242 Would be Bedroom Watt, Bedroom Amp, Bedroom TV, Bedroom Apple, Bedroom Touch, Bedroom Processor, Bedroom AP
and 38, 58, 68 are Guest SoundBar, TV, Apple

Maybe not the layout I'd do today, but it's what we've done since forever.

 

This is really smart, I use something similar, but not exact.  But I run into problems at times when I need more than ten numbers for a block.  What do you do for larger homes where there are more than 10 rooms?  I could see that easily happening in large modern homes.  I think I have more than 10 rooms with audio or video endpoints.  Do you go to a /23 subnet?