HRT

You are missing the point

Credit card is 3-5%. And the computer to process it costs money. You have to buy it. You have to have internet. Someone to ring it up... Power.

And Mitch

I never said I didn't want to pay the integrator. I just don't want to pay him 50% margins for hardware. iI want to pay him for his time and expertise in INTEGRATING.  It's much cleaner that way. If I suddenly switch from a USAI to a DMF fixture, he shouldn't get more money. that is completely different than your Best Buy analogy where the business is only about selling hardware. Similarly, to address Michael's point, the marginal cost of using a computer to process a credit card is zero. And the credit card processing fees for, say, a basic Visa, are nowhere near 5%-7%. If I'm wrong, I'm happy to pay cash: problem solved. The point is about transparency. Just bill me for time and expertise...not hidden markups. With hidden markups, there is an incentive to get me to buy more $$ equipment. Not the case with a straight consulting and integration fee. If what an integrator wants is a healthy long-term relationship (which IS what I want), charging huge markups on hardware is the wrong way to go about it in my opinion. 99% of customers would agree with me I suspect

Is Best Buy selling that tv to you at a 5% markup minus a random Black Friday door buster of course 🙂.  But seriously you are always going to pay a margin. To a dealer. To a storefront etc.  I’d rather give it to a local dealer/business and have support 
just my two cents 

5-7% margin doesn't cover credit card processing or the computer to process the card....good luck
does your business have a 5% margin with your customers?

I just did a complete home renovation project.  My plumber didnt give me cost + mark up on the pex tubing used.  My electrician didn't break out the cost + mark up on each outlet installed.  He said you need X amount of outlets and it will cost Y dollars.  So if your dealer tells you need this and it will cost that much, what's the difference?   If I told my electrician he can only make 5% on his hardware he'd walk out the door.  

Hi,
Been browsing forums and can't quite find an answer to what I'm looking for. I'm a pretty technically savvy developer who is building a custom home in a large U.S. city. The system I'm looking to build includes distributed audio, distributed video, shades, lighting, security, surveillance, HVAC, commercial grade networking etc. etc.. I have done an enormous amount of research and have definitive ideas about how I want to do the build out which almost certainly is a six figure job.  I have talked to many integrators in town, many of whom seem far too eager to obfuscate hardware pricing and charge ridiculous markups on hardware. (Yes, I understand the business models of the C4s of the world wherein they're not selling direct but instead selling through distributors and trying to ensure the integrators have margin. I'm not opposed to some margin - like 5%-7%) I respect integrators' capabilities (e.g. build-out of structured wiring, real-world experience, monitoring etc) and want to pay them. However, I'd like to pay them for their consulting and labor not for hardware (or at least very little). Is there a way I can purchase hardware from a remote dealer who can provide light consulting services (happy to pay a healthy 4 figures for phone and design consults) and provide hardware at cost? The hardware would likely come from a variety of vendors including Lutron, C4, USAI, and quite a few others. I was thinking maybe I could apply to be a device driver developer to get access to hardware (at least for C4); is this difficult and would it work? (It would still only solve my problem for C4...not Lutron, USAI, and distributed audio gear) I'd be happy to share any of my work.
 
Any/all ideas and comments would be welcome!

Of course. But that needs to go both ways. If they provide great service, they should have nothing to hide. Pretending they do magic behind a curtain (i.e. not allowing a technical guy like me access to gear or transparent pricing) is a big fail on their side.  If I have the grit and time to find great hardware pricing, why should I pay them for that? I'd like to pay them directly for their expertise in things I CAN'T do well or don't have the interest or time in doing well (e.g. structured wiring or certain programming tasks). They shouldn't get paid MORE for a DMF downlight than a USAI equivalent just because I chose a more expensive fixture.  I just want clear, honest pricing for their time and effort. Hiding margin in hardware is a bad strategy for THEM if they'd like to build a long-term relationship.

The proper strategy is to treat your dealer as a long term partner and pay what they require to stay in business, or at least try to a fair and equitable arrangement.
Small business does not survive on margins that thin unless they are doing millions in sales and providing no support after the sale.
It’s time to rethink your “strategy “.


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There is a beta app available if you can't wait for the update in the apple app store. You can ask your dealer for the link.

It's brought up about every 3 months...

My friend drives a McLaren which is one of his 6-7 cars.   When I asked him for his opinion on cars when I was shopping he didn’t mention a McLaren. He knows I’m not their target customer. I’d love to own one though. But it’s not for me
C4 isn’t for everyone. Their target is not mass market. 

Part of running a business is also knowing the customers you want and who you don't...not all customers are good customers and not all customers are profitable

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these facts are not facts...but ok...and facts can't be questions...

Control4 should have never become a public company. The custom home automation business is just not something that has the high growth Wall Street wants. 
The sale to SnapAV means the dealer model will stay and will probably stay somewhat tightly controlled as it is now. Might have been different if say a company like Honeywell would have bought them. Would have probably been dealer focused but the software would have been easy to get. 

Not sure why you would not be a client of ours, we sell plenty of systems with non c4 gear and are probably 50% of our lighting systems are lutron via requests of homeowners/architects/builders.
Most of our clients in situations like your's show them how to use the remote, a touchscreen in the kitchen, or they leave an Ipad out in the main living area.
 

Cause people are frugal. And want to get the most life out of their gear

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Thank you for a detailed response, even though you framed your whole post off of one comment I made and ignored many others (gasp, I also talk with other dealers, see many others quotes, and talk with my rep etc as I put in my post). Yes my frame of mind is based on you guessed it my own experiences, just like yours is. I appreciate your detailed response, but they all were use cases for your clients and nothing else as most of them can be done without the GUI.  I know, you threw in at the end you talk to many dealers/users from around the whole wide world and just to let me know its outside of this forum. Not sure why the chest puffing was needed as it added nothing to your argument, but it did give me a good chuckle. 
First I did say it's not just my systems, its the systems of most all the dealers in my area (3rd largest market in the United States). We often bid against other dealers, and you know we see their quotes/designs and they don't include the TV GUI. You are correct, there are many ways to design a system, and I personally think it's a bad system design to rely on the TV GUI for control and the money spent on it is better used elsewhere. Is it wrong to design a system with it, no you are correct it is not. Are there times its nice, sure the current music feedback is the only example I will concede to you, but it is 100% not needed as I can just look at another interface to see the song.
We install cameras on probably 75% of our jobs, the NVR video still gets to the TV without the GUI, and with obviously better picture quality (since GUI cam feed is only 720p). The movies are fine to browse on a touchscreen or tablet, never had a complaint. Sorry don't understand the word salad on your other example.
I'm not saying it should be dropped, but the time and effort that went into designing the new GUI could have been better spent in my mind on the app/touchscreen GUI. Adding wakeup/goodnight to the app, the actual customizing we all want (different room GUI for each user, locking out rooms from users etc). Also it's now focused on listen/watch only as comfort/lighting/security were left off as they know those are better controlled elsewhere.
I was actually asking you if you had some info from Control4 due to the absolute confidence your comment was made with. Your response though kinda proved my point, you like it and don't want it gone and have no real idea of how many people use it.(i'm sorry I don't care about you talking with dealers/users world wide I just don't) You are correct though Control4 probably does have a better idea of how much use it's actually getting, and based on their focusing it to the listen/watch plus favorites i'm guessing it's not getting anywhere near the daily/hourly/by the minute use the app/touchscreens get.
 

Thank you for a detailed response, even though you framed your whole post off of one comment I made and ignored many others (gasp, I also talk with other dealers, see many others quotes, and talk with my rep etc as I put in my post). Yes my frame of mind is based on you guessed it my own experiences, just like yours is. I appreciate your detailed response, but they all were use cases for your clients and nothing else as most of them can be done without the GUI.  I know, you threw in at the end you talk to many dealers/users from around the whole wide world and just to let me know its outside of this forum. Not sure why the chest puffing was needed as it added nothing to your argument, but it did give me a good chuckle. 
First I did say it's not just my systems, its the systems of most all the dealers in my area (3rd largest market in the United States). We often bid against other dealers, and you know we see their quotes/designs and they don't include the TV GUI. You are correct, there are many ways to design a system, and I personally think it's a bad system design to rely on the TV GUI for control and the money spent on it is better used elsewhere. Is it wrong to design a system with it, no you are correct it is not. Are there times its nice, sure the current music feedback is the only example I will concede to you, but it is 100% not needed as I can just look at another interface to see the song.
We install cameras on probably 75% of our jobs, the NVR video still gets to the TV without the GUI, and with obviously better picture quality (since GUI cam feed is only 720p). The movies are fine to browse on a touchscreen or tablet, never had a complaint. Sorry don't understand the word salad on your other example.
I'm not saying it should be dropped, but the time and effort that went into designing the new GUI could have been better spent in my mind on the app/touchscreen GUI. Adding wakeup/goodnight to the app, the actual customizing we all want (different room GUI for each user, locking out rooms from users etc). Also it's now focused on listen/watch only as comfort/lighting/security were left off as they know those are better controlled elsewhere.
I was actually asking you if you had some info from Control4 due to the absolute confidence your comment was made with. Your response though kinda proved my point, you like it and don't want it gone and have no real idea of how many people use it.(i'm sorry I don't care about you talking with dealers/users world wide I just don't) You are correct though Control4 probably does have a better idea of how much use it's actually getting, and based on their focusing it to the listen/watch plus favorites i'm guessing it's not getting anywhere near the daily/hourly/by the minute use the app/touchscreens get.
 

Where are you getting this info? Is this based on your customers, talking with other dealers, systems you've seen in the wild on take over jobs? We have 100's of installs dating back to 1.3 or so and maybe have 5 jobs where the client uses the OSD. We used to setup the OSD in large component matrices, but through talking with our clients no one ever used it. We haven't setup the OSD for a client in close to 5+ years i'd guess on new installs except for maybe once or twice for a client who previously had C4. We don't design our systems with wasted processors at all tv's nor do we waste a spot on a HDMI matrix for it. The OSD is beyond a waste of time to pull up, when clients have the remote in their hand already, their phone in the pocket, and a touch screen close by on larger installs.
We take over a few jobs a year, and as time has past I think we are down to one competitor who still designs systems with a small processor behind each TV for the OSD, when it was common place 5-10 years ago. None of our competitors we are friendly with  currently design there systems with the OSD, the quotes we see on jobs we are bidding against,  and when talking with our rep it seams others do the same as well. While this could just be our market, I think this has been the trend for years as the App has improved to include features once only on C4 interfaces. While you might still do it and have a large client base, I think the overall trend is less and less people think they need to teach someone to hit the red button, then go to watch on their tv and select cable, when its far easier to just hit watch, then cable on the remote and be done with it.
 
 

Where are you getting this info? Is this based on your customers, talking with other dealers, systems you've seen in the wild on take over jobs? We have 100's of installs dating back to 1.3 or so and maybe have 5 jobs where the client uses the OSD. We used to setup the OSD in large component matrices, but through talking with our clients no one ever used it. We haven't setup the OSD for a client in close to 5+ years i'd guess on new installs except for maybe once or twice for a client who previously had C4. We don't design our systems with wasted processors at all tv's nor do we waste a spot on a HDMI matrix for it. The OSD is beyond a waste of time to pull up, when clients have the remote in their hand already, their phone in the pocket, and a touch screen close by on larger installs.
We take over a few jobs a year, and as time has past I think we are down to one competitor who still designs systems with a small processor behind each TV for the OSD, when it was common place 5-10 years ago. None of our competitors we are friendly with  currently design there systems with the OSD, the quotes we see on jobs we are bidding against,  and when talking with our rep it seams others do the same as well. While this could just be our market, I think this has been the trend for years as the App has improved to include features once only on C4 interfaces. While you might still do it and have a large client base, I think the overall trend is less and less people think they need to teach someone to hit the red button, then go to watch on their tv and select cable, when its far easier to just hit watch, then cable on the remote and be done with it.
 
 

Where are you getting this info? Is this based on your customers, talking with other dealers, systems you've seen in the wild on take over jobs? We have 100's of installs dating back to 1.3 or so and maybe have 5 jobs where the client uses the OSD. We used to setup the OSD in large component matrices, but through talking with our clients no one ever used it. We haven't setup the OSD for a client in close to 5+ years i'd guess on new installs except for maybe once or twice for a client who previously had C4. We don't design our systems with wasted processors at all tv's nor do we waste a spot on a HDMI matrix for it. The OSD is beyond a waste of time to pull up, when clients have the remote in their hand already, their phone in the pocket, and a touch screen close by on larger installs.
We take over a few jobs a year, and as time has past I think we are down to one competitor who still designs systems with a small processor behind each TV for the OSD, when it was common place 5-10 years ago. None of our competitors we are friendly with  currently design there systems with the OSD, the quotes we see on jobs we are bidding against,  and when talking with our rep it seams others do the same as well. While this could just be our market, I think this has been the trend for years as the App has improved to include features once only on C4 interfaces. While you might still do it and have a large client base, I think the overall trend is less and less people think they need to teach someone to hit the red button, then go to watch on their tv and select cable, when its far easier to just hit watch, then cable on the remote and be done with it.
 
 

it's just been very clearly stated many times. asking again isn't going to change the outcome

you can do it in a few less steps, but its how spotify works not control4.
step 1 turn on playlist in said room
step 2 use digital media driver to turn on shuffle in said room
step 3 delay (800ms but you might try playing with this*)
step 4 skip track
 
* If you have too short of a delay it won't skip track as it hasn't fully loaded, if you have too long of a delay you hear a blip of the first track you don't want to hear.

https://www.drivercentral.io/platforms/control4-drivers/climate-fan-fireplace/honeywell-wi-fi-thermostat/
Hello everyone,
We are very excited to release our next driver, Which is for the Honeywell Total Connect Comfort platform. This includes Honeywell Wi-Fi Thermostats as well as RedLINK.

Overview

Cinegration Development’s Honeywell Total Connect Comfort Driver allows customers with Honeywell Total Connect Comfort thermostats to control their home’s climate with their Control4 system. This gives customers the freedom to manage the temperature of the home from any room or while away. Keep the home cool in the summer and warm in the winter to the exact specified degree and schedule when the temperature changes throughout the day. No additional hardware is required to experience the complete customization that Control4 now allows for your Honeywell Total Connect Comfort thermostats!
 

Features
Works with Honeywell Total Comfort Connect platform (Honeywell Wi-Fi/Redlink) Supports Cinegration Trial and Showroom license Install remotely, all you need is the honeywell account email and password Uses latest Control4 thermostat interface Fan Mode, HVAC Mode, Humidity Mode, Hold Mode Outdoor temperature monitoring Humidity monitoring Supports Cinegration Trial and Showroom license  
Requirements
This driver is compatible with Control4 2.9.1 or higher. A strong network connection is required to effectively utilize this driver. 
 
 
Disclaimer
This driver ONLY works with Honeywell Total Connect Comfort thermostats. This driver will not work with other Honeywell thermostat models.

 
FAQ
Can you give us some examples of how we could use this driver?
This driver can be used to control Honeywell Total Connect Comfort thermostats via a smartphone, tablet, or touchscreen in the Control4 app.
 
Which thermostats does this driver support?
The Honeywell TCC Driver supports all Honeywell Total Connect Comfort thermostats.
 
Does this driver work with all Honeywell thermostats?
No. The Honeywell TCC driver only works with Honeywell Total Connect Comfort thermostats. This driver does not work with Honeywell Lyric thermostats. 
 
How does scheduling work?
Currently, scheduling can be done in the Honeywell Thermostat and Composer – the ability to schedule in the Control4 app is coming! 
 
How is this unit controlled?
This unit is controlled via the cloud through the Total Connect Comfort username used when setting up the thermostat.
 
Where do I register my Honeywell TCC Hardware?
To register the hardware, go to: https://mytotalconnectcomfort.com/
 
 
Where can I get support if I have an issue?
If you have questions or issues with the driver or integration, please go to https://help.drivercentral.io and submit a ticket.
 
Do you offer showroom discounts?
All Cinegration Development drivers support the DriverCentral showroom project.
 
Can I try this driver out before buying it?
All Cinegration Development drivers for Control4 come with a 7-day trial. Simply add the DriverCentral licensing driver along with this driver and you can fully test the driver before purchasing.
 

Driver is provided by Cinegration Development LLC.  All rights reserved.