Topspin14m

The easy solution here is just to get a Cloud Key and keep everything else that you have. The main thing you won’t get is traffic identification (since you don’t have a unifi router).


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Ok I’ll share my story, even though it’s off topic. I don’t mind the C4 UI, which I think is nice, but I think Savant’s is a little nicer. I renovated a home down to the studs and spent a lot of time cross shopping systems. Those were my final two choices and I saw a house with an amazing Savant setup.

However, I am really big on third party integration and tinker with my system a lot - like constantly. C4, at least when I bought it, had significantly more 3rd party integration. I haven’t kept up with Savant, but that was the big reason I chose C4. I was looking for something that could integrate a large range of devices from different vendors and that would be stable/reliable (because I was coming from SST, which was anything but and ran primarily on Z Wave). Home automation is a hobby of mine but I don’t have time to be constantly fixing broken stuff. My job is too busy.

I’m not in love with Alexa but I really like voice control as a medium. So that’s why I’ve been interested in Josh.ai from the beginning, but 15k for it, which is where it was for a 5 year license and all the stuff I’d want, was not an insignificant cost and even pre-lawsuit, I’ve always been worried about large commitments to smaller companies that are developing new technologies.

Now that I’m a bit removed from installing my C4/home automation system and I’ve fully paid for it/my bank account has recovered, I’m interested again - and I hear the pricing has changed and is maybe a bit more favorable.


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Ok I’ll share my story, even though it’s off topic. I don’t mind the C4 UI, which I think is nice, but I think Savant’s is a little nicer. I renovated a home down to the studs and spent a lot of time cross shopping systems. Those were my final two choices and I saw a house with an amazing Savant setup.

However, I am really big on third party integration and tinker with my system a lot - like constantly. C4, at least when I bought it, had significantly more 3rd party integration. I haven’t kept up with Savant, but that was the big reason I chose C4. I was looking for something that could integrate a large range of devices from different vendors and that would be stable/reliable (because I was coming from SST, which was anything but and ran primarily on Z Wave). Home automation is a hobby of mine but I don’t have time to be constantly fixing broken stuff. My job is too busy.

I’m not in love with Alexa but I really like voice control as a medium. So that’s why I’ve been interested in Josh.ai from the beginning, but 15k for it, which is where it was for a 5 year license and all the stuff I’d want, was not an insignificant cost and even pre-lawsuit, I’ve always been worried about large commitments to smaller companies that are developing new technologies.

Now that I’m a bit removed from installing my C4/home automation system and I’ve fully paid for it/my bank account has recovered, I’m interested again - and I hear the pricing has changed and is maybe a bit more favorable.


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This is a C4 forum (I know your use is to sell Savant which is all good. Savant is a nice system but most of us on here have C4). I asked questions because I have C4, am interested in Josh.ai’s products and interface, and want to know if it integrates through C4 (and if C4 could block it). I’m not trying to take down Savant, Josh.ai or insult you. It’s all good.


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This is a C4 forum (I know your use is to sell Savant which is all good. Savant is a nice system but most of us on here have C4). I asked questions because I have C4, am interested in Josh.ai’s products and interface, and want to know if it integrates through C4 (and if C4 could block it). I’m not trying to take down Savant, Josh.ai or insult you. It’s all good.


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What stops SnapOne from shutting off Josh.ai’s access to its hardware? Meaning you pay $1400 for a touchscreen and it just stops working.


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That’s the AVA remote that’s the subject of the lawsuit.


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I think the reality is that everyone on this forum is going to have to pay for Connect eventually.  We all talk about the latest features.  I'm actually surprised there are so many people who don't use 4Sight/remote access already.  
There are people who probably never upgrade their C4 system and just want it to "work" and provide basic functionality.  They'll probably never pay or will hold out as long as possible.  Those people aren't typical of people here on this forum...
I'm still unhappy as I think this is just a massive 4Sight price increase, but, if they do actually use it to improve the software, fine.  E.g., I would pay to have better Sonos integration natively without Roon.  And it would have been nice if they had a list of real things they could show us now that they are planning for Connect customers.  But if they just pocket it for the shareholders, which is what I expect to happen, that is going to stink. 

I think the reality is that everyone on this forum is going to have to pay for Connect eventually.  We all talk about the latest features.  I'm actually surprised there are so many people who don't use 4Sight/remote access already.  
There are people who probably never upgrade their C4 system and just want it to "work" and provide basic functionality.  They'll probably never pay or will hold out as long as possible.  Those people aren't typical of people here on this forum...
I'm still unhappy as I think this is just a massive 4Sight price increase, but, if they do actually use it to improve the software, fine.  E.g., I would pay to have better Sonos integration natively without Roon.  And it would have been nice if they had a list of real things they could show us now that they are planning for Connect customers.  But if they just pocket it for the shareholders, which is what I expect to happen, that is going to stink. 

I think the reality is that everyone on this forum is going to have to pay for Connect eventually.  We all talk about the latest features.  I'm actually surprised there are so many people who don't use 4Sight/remote access already.  
There are people who probably never upgrade their C4 system and just want it to "work" and provide basic functionality.  They'll probably never pay or will hold out as long as possible.  Those people aren't typical of people here on this forum...
I'm still unhappy as I think this is just a massive 4Sight price increase, but, if they do actually use it to improve the software, fine.  E.g., I would pay to have better Sonos integration natively without Roon.  And it would have been nice if they had a list of real things they could show us now that they are planning for Connect customers.  But if they just pocket it for the shareholders, which is what I expect to happen, that is going to stink. 

I think the reality is that everyone on this forum is going to have to pay for Connect eventually.  We all talk about the latest features.  I'm actually surprised there are so many people who don't use 4Sight/remote access already.  
There are people who probably never upgrade their C4 system and just want it to "work" and provide basic functionality.  They'll probably never pay or will hold out as long as possible.  Those people aren't typical of people here on this forum...
I'm still unhappy as I think this is just a massive 4Sight price increase, but, if they do actually use it to improve the software, fine.  E.g., I would pay to have better Sonos integration natively without Roon.  And it would have been nice if they had a list of real things they could show us now that they are planning for Connect customers.  But if they just pocket it for the shareholders, which is what I expect to happen, that is going to stink. 

I think the new features exclusive to Connect thing is BS. We’ll see. I bet they’ll sunset 4sight before they have any features exclusive to Connect.


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Eggzlot - I agree with much of what you said but the reality is that SnapAV doesn’t want tinkerers as customers anymore. They think those folks are headed to DIY and are gone no matter what. They are going to focus solely on non-tech people. But I think that’s a huge mistake.


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Money grab pure and simple. Huge mistake to hit your loyal customers and dealers in the face. Realistically, I’ll pay the added fee for what is just rebranded 4Sight if they make me, but just be transparent. Don’t try to pretend this is some new product - it’s just insulting.

Also, if they push OvrC as mandatory (or move to a cloud based system), I’m gone. And I’m heavily invested in C4/have never said a bad word about SnapAV. Not that anyone cares what I think over there haha.


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Money grab pure and simple. Huge mistake to hit your loyal customers and dealers in the face. Realistically, I’ll pay the added fee for what is just rebranded 4Sight if they make me, but just be transparent. Don’t try to pretend this is some new product - it’s just insulting.

Also, if they push OvrC as mandatory (or move to a cloud based system), I’m gone. And I’m heavily invested in C4/have never said a bad word about SnapAV. Not that anyone cares what I think over there haha.


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Assist isn't what upsets me because I'd never buy it and don't have to.  It's the fact that they are raising the price of 4Sight to a ridiculous level and trying to sell it as this amazing new product because now I'll be able to click a button and install a software upgrade!   Ohh wow now you are going to let me click the button that is in Composer Pro all by myself!!

Money grab pure and simple. Huge mistake to hit your loyal customers and dealers in the face. Realistically, I’ll pay the added fee for what is just rebranded 4Sight if they make me, but just be transparent. Don’t try to pretend this is some new product - it’s just insulting.

Also, if they push OvrC as mandatory (or move to a cloud based system), I’m gone. And I’m heavily invested in C4/have never said a bad word about SnapAV. Not that anyone cares what I think over there haha.


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This point is a good one. I think the main differences have been user interface and back end integration. C4 was always hardware control. Josh.ai is voice control. Now Josh.ai wants to be in the hardware control space and that seems to have spurred the conflict between the two companies.


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I also use the Roon driver.  It is pretty good, and it is certainly miles better than my alternative, which is the (crippled) Sonos driver. However, the Roon C4 interface is much more stripped down than what you are used to seeing in the Roon app. It is also buggy, and, since Roon has basically washed its hands of the driver's continued development, those bugs are likely there to stay.  On the plus side though, it is free and works with any kind of Roon core, so you've got nothing to lose by giving it a shot!

IMO - Keypad isn't really any easier than a light switch, except you have all your switches in a room in one place, which is nice.  
The occupancy thing doesn't work for me personally with young kids who are constantly running everywhere.  I need more control than that.
I'd actually love to have Josh and I should be the absolute target market for it as someone who used Alexa a ton, but didn't find Alexa to have enough integration.  However, the price and, more importantly, my fear that the company will disappear have been what have kept me from it.  If I'm investing $10K in tech, I have to know I can use it for a decent amount of time.  If a larger company bought Josh, I'd probably buy it right away.

IMO - Keypad isn't really any easier than a light switch, except you have all your switches in a room in one place, which is nice.  
The occupancy thing doesn't work for me personally with young kids who are constantly running everywhere.  I need more control than that.
I'd actually love to have Josh and I should be the absolute target market for it as someone who used Alexa a ton, but didn't find Alexa to have enough integration.  However, the price and, more importantly, my fear that the company will disappear have been what have kept me from it.  If I'm investing $10K in tech, I have to know I can use it for a decent amount of time.  If a larger company bought Josh, I'd probably buy it right away.

I have to respectfully disagree.  The voice is used in our home to run scenes 25-30 times per day.  Before we seldomly used the equivalent on the touchscreens.  And we didn't tie them into keypads because that created a lack of change/flexibility without using Composer HE or our dealer.  It is used here for scenes, shades, locking doors, playing specific playlists, fans, pool controls, Kaleidescape movies and the like.  For dinner, it comes in clutch to prep the space while in the middle of cooking and making adjustments.  
May be the outlier but it is used (Josh in conjunction with C4) nearly 200-300 times per month in doing one-time tasks, scenes, and other actions.  In addition, as an end user the ability to set, modify, update scenes have a much better experience than the When>Then alternative.

It's called AWS

My impressions so far.  I do miss the smaller, slimmer form factor of the Neeo.  That said, my wifi problems have disappeared and I love that the Halos have 5ghz.  The extra button presses are annoying but I assume they'll iron those out in future firmware releases.  Overall, I'm a fan.  If there were some way in the future to get voice working with Roku (I know this is a partnership issue) that would really be next level.

My impressions so far.  I do miss the smaller, slimmer form factor of the Neeo.  That said, my wifi problems have disappeared and I love that the Halos have 5ghz.  The extra button presses are annoying but I assume they'll iron those out in future firmware releases.  Overall, I'm a fan.  If there were some way in the future to get voice working with Roku (I know this is a partnership issue) that would really be next level.