Can't begin to say how disappointed I am with this system.

[therockhr]

24 minutes ago, 3D - Benn said:

It's not the responsibility of the people on these forums. Everyone here with knowledge on the matter is here on their own voluntary basis. This customer obviously has substantial issues with a new install and wanted to rant about it.  This place is great for the odd hint or tip but it's not an appropriate place to help fault find potentially big issues with a new install. Thats the job of the dealer who installed it and no one else. If the dealer is not providing support on a new install then get another dealer and take it up with C4. 

Ignoring peoples questions who are trying to help diagnose the issue and instead focusing on ranting further will not achieve anything. 

He said that he couldn't get a hold of his dealer and was stuck. Then the guy comes on here and everyone says "sounds like you got a bad dealer" or "probably an issue with your network". Was he going on a rant? Yes. But when it's the weekend and something isn't working and you can't get support and can't even work on it yourself then you get frustrated. 

[Cyknight]

29 minutes ago, therockhr said:

He said that he couldn't get a hold of his dealer and was stuck. Then the guy comes on here and everyone says "sounds like you got a bad dealer" or "probably an issue with your network". Was he going on a rant? Yes. But when it's the weekend and something isn't working and you can't get support and can't even work on it yourself then you get frustrated. 

Which completely excuses the initial post, but further spewing after a rather mild mention that the rant will get him nowhere is another matter. You want help, ask for help. You're free to rant on here, it's a public forum - but it won't get you anywhere, and yes it will get others to rant back.

[SurfNTech]

I used to come on these forums for ideas and helpful tips, but these forums have become disgusting.  They are meant for us home owner and system buyers to discuss, rant, help suggest.  I have read them for year and joined earlier this year.  Since then I have wanted to come here less and less as some dealers are just disgusting people online.

I found some great products using these forums that I wouldn't otherwise have in my system.  My one dealer has been exceptional and getting these implemented at a reasonable cost, and I respect his feedback when at times I've asked for things that he felt weren't reliable.  He has also told me flat out that when system updates are done to expect glitches to arise and that is just the nature of updates.  To say that Control4 runs smooth is far from the truth, I would say it runs just as reasonable as you would expect a computer.  I have had to reboot the system more under certain version, and some have been very good.  I have learned to only get my dealer to update when I am in town for a number of weeks as to not leave the family with a system with issues.

I no longer have a desire to come here to see the negative dealers talk down to users that they should know can be frustrated, have invested lots of money and my very well have their wife on their butt to have things work.  I will also be instructing my dealer to cancel the install of products from third parties as I am just disgusted with the way some come on here and act and treat others.  I'd rather not support these people.

I feel for the original poster, I hope you get things sorted with your dealer.  I have 2 homes and I know what it's like having a less experienced dealer at one, but I have learned from the other not to chase the rabbit down the hole and when things are running smooth hold off on updating to the new versions right away (unless you are already in the middle of a divorce).

Goodluck

[SurfNTech]

2 hours ago, therockhr said:

What I find funny is that if this guy would have come on here before he got his system installed and asked for advice on system layout and network guidelines, half of the responses would have just been "you need to work with your dealer". This guy DID work with a dealer, gets a poorly working system and most of the responses are "sounds like you got a bad dealer". Can you all not see the problem with this? 

These forums have become a place of self gratification for dealers.  Sure doesn't make you want to deal with some of them.

[AK1]

I see the opposite. I see dealers donating their time to help users. 

[thecodeman]

I was just trying to help the guy out with some suggestions. Sorry if it came across as being disgusting or a need for self-gratification. 

[Engineerisaac]

This forum does have a lot of blunt people But what happens here is a lot of customers come here and get confused in some format that this is some official place that is endorsed by control4. Its not. Its an unofficial community that has put effort into being a community as control4 themselves have no real place yet for that.

Please dont hate us dealers but we have our guard up daily and mainly for reasons like this. We truly do care about you customers we want your project to work. And Believe me we are not interested in selling you stuff you don't need. I cant say that for everybody but the good dealers are in it to win it including me.

 

This forum is a place for help but you MUST have an open mind and not shoot down the suggestions we provide. We are trying to get to the bottom of it. And our experience says its the network here. So Please for a lack of a better term. Just hear it out to the end. Maybe somebody has a point here maybe your network has a flaw. NO its not a reflection or inadequacy of your ability.

 

Bad dealers make mad customers. Its a fact. A good control4 experience is to find a dealer who will keep communications open no matter what. And as a client. Don't be an expectant jerk to us. You will find that the dealers will go out of the way to make your system rock when your a stand up guy.

[msgreenf]

These forums have become a place of self gratification for dealers.  Sure doesn't make you want to deal with some of them.

See how quickly the forums are helpful if all the dealers leave. Perceive it how you want..

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[therockhr]

3 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

See how quickly the forums are helpful if all the dealers leave. Perceive it how you want..

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

The dealers on here are better than average; i would actually bet they are some of the absolute best in the industry.....

That said if they opened up the software and documentation for end users, they would not be needed on these forums. The community would be able to support itself.

[thecodeman]

7 minutes ago, therockhr said:

The dealers on here are better than average; i would actually bet they are some of the absolute best in the industry.....

That said if they opened up the software and documentation for end users, they would not be needed on these forums. The community would be able to support itself.

Control4's model is dealer oriented and the software to do any of the "heavy lifting" is restricted as such. Unless there is a change in the model, I don't predict a change in the release of documentation and software beyond Composer HE and When/Then, which compared to other offerings from full automation companies at the moment, is pretty user-centric.

[msgreenf]

The dealers on here are better than average; i would actually bet they are some of the absolute best in the industry.....
That said if they opened up the software and documentation for end users, they would not be needed on these forums. The community would be able to support itself.

Just don't see that happening. Please don't interpret that as I'm against change.

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[ecschnei]

there is a reason microsoft makes the windows registry difficult to get to....

And I can do plenty of damage to my system with Composer HE so........

[Cyknight]

5 hours ago, therockhr said:

That said if they opened up the software and documentation for end users, they would not be needed on these forums. The community would be able to support itself.

LOL

[Anzir]

The dealers on here are better than average; i would actually bet they are some of the absolute best in the industry.....

Agreed.

That said if they opened up the software and documentation for end users, they would not be needed on these forums. The community would be able to support itself.

No way. As end users we are quite lucky to have dealers (and other power users) on the board who are able to help us navigate it all.


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[msgreenf]

LOL

Agree. By that logic there should be no car mechanics

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[therockhr]

6 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Agree. By that logic there should be no car mechanics

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

Never said there wouldn’t be a need for dealers; that wouldn’t change. Just saying that their need on a forum would be diminished. Power users would be able to answer lots of the questions. Believe it or not, not everyone on a car forum is a mechanic. 

[Pounce]

5 hours ago, therockhr said:

That said if they opened up the software and documentation for end users, they would not be needed on these forums. The community would be able to support itself.

That's typical for a lot of consumer software. C4 has a user base that is less likely to be DIY. By definition you have people that just want their home t be automated and simple. These people on the whole wont be digging into the complexity that is required so I do not think opening the platform would have a direct impact on the majority of owners. I'm saying majority because I'm an owner and I want to tinker and do it myself because I enjoy complexity and have an interest in how it all works and glues together. People like me and the other members on this forum are probably a very small percentage of C4 owners. That said I think this small percentage that interacts in the way we do helps the ecosystem. It's a feedback loop maybe.

I do agree that over time if the platform had some open aspects that there could be some innovation and acceleration of value, but I think it would also require C4 to enter more of the lower end home automation space and that could devalue the brand plus drain resources from a people perspective out of the gate.

If I could pay a small fee and have total control over my system I would. wink wink nudge nudge...

[therockhr]

9 minutes ago, Pounce said:

That's typical for a lot of consumer software. C4 has a user base that is less likely to be DIY. By definition you have people that just want their home t be automated and simple. These people on the whole wont be digging into the complexity that is required so I do not think opening the platform would have a direct impact on the majority of owners. I'm saying majority because I'm an owner and I want to tinker and do it myself because I enjoy complexity and have an interest in how it all works and glues together. People like me and the other members on this forum are probably a very small percentage of C4 owners. That said I think this small percentage that interacts in the way we do helps the ecosystem. It's a feedback loop maybe.

I do agree that over time if the platform had some open aspects that there could be some innovation and acceleration of value, but I think it would also require C4 to enter more of the lower end home automation space and that could devalue the brand plus drain resources from a people perspective out of the gate.

If I could pay a small fee and have total control over my system I would. wink wink nudge nudge...

Correct, C4 wants to be a luxury product even if it means sacrificing sales to DIY type installs. I somewhat get that strategy although I think it makes more sense for a private company than a public one. 

I have always favored C4 doing the Lutron model. A “Composer Essentials” product that requires some free online training, maybe has a device limit and is restricted to AV and certain lighting and other devices. 

[Pounce]

1 minute ago, therockhr said:

C4 wants to be a luxury product even if it means sacrificing sales to DIY type installs

Is it a sacrifice? Or is the market getting much much larger and C4 is just taking it's share of the customers that fit the demographic?

I honestly don't think C4 is strong enough to enter lower end markets.

[therockhr]

2 minutes ago, Pounce said:

Is it a sacrifice? Or is the market getting much much larger and C4 is just taking it's share of the customers that fit the demographic?

I honestly don't think C4 is strong enough to enter lower end markets.

No I don’t think they are strong enough to enter the lower end. I think the “hubs” from  amazon, simplisafe, Honeywell and others is going to fill most of the needs of the lower end so it’s a market that C4 shouldn’t even target. I think them staying at the high end makes sense but they are competing with Crestron and RTI for a much smaller segment. At the high end you are dealing with people who are making big investments in the product, I would think keeping them happy with providing the software would be a good business move. 

[msgreenf]

Never said there wouldn’t be a need for dealers; that wouldn’t change. Just saying that their need on a forum would be diminished. Power users would be able to answer lots of the questions. Believe it or not, not everyone on a car forum is a mechanic. 

Look at the belkin wemo official forum...

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[flyingron]

Well the C4 dealer set up the network with the exception of using the CenturyLink router in bridge mode as I had previously config'd it.   The network has been up for several months waiting for the builders to do the finish painting so the speakers, touchpanels, etc... could be installed.    I came along behind him and checked the network config since that I did know about and found nothing that needed to be changed.    Yes, while everything smells like a network problem to people, it is strange that nothing else on my network seems to have been affected and if it had been a network problem you would think the EA5 could have recovered without the power cycle which was all I had to do to get things back (except for one touch screen which I had to manually reboot, it was still stuck in the intercom app displaying "connected to %s", that's clearly a software bug, network issue or not).

 

If there was a network issue, it sees the EA5 was not able to recover itself after everything else on the network did.

At least now it's Monday and both the dealer and Control4 themselves have reached out to me.

 

 

[flyingron]

I can go either DIY or let the techs do it.    But if I'm reliant on the C4 and the techs I don't want to be told to call back in three days when my whole HA system is crocked.   They're going to have to provide a modicum of support capability (either them or DIY) on the weekends.   Even my plumber and electrician and well guys will come out on those type calls in emergencies.

[AK1]

7 minutes ago, flyingron said:

I can go either DIY or let the techs do it.    But if I'm reliant on the C4 and the techs I don't want to be told to call back in three days when my whole HA system is crocked.   They're going to have to provide a modicum of support capability (either them or DIY) on the weekends.   Even my plumber and electrician and well guys will come out on those type calls in emergencies.

Then, as previously suggested, you may well need a new dealer. Myself and I am sure other dealers are available for weekend emergencies - thankfully rarely happens.

And despite how many times you tell us how closely you have monitored your network, how much you know about networking and how many months it has been up, you have people on this forum, some of them actually at the very top of the dealer hierarchy, who work with these systems day-in-day-out telling you it seems like a network problem. 

We are here to help,

[3D - Benn]

7 hours ago, flyingron said:

I can go either DIY or let the techs do it.    But if I'm reliant on the C4 and the techs I don't want to be told to call back in three days when my whole HA system is crocked.   They're going to have to provide a modicum of support capability (either them or DIY) on the weekends.   Even my plumber and electrician and well guys will come out on those type calls in emergencies.

Who your dealer is is down to you and no one else. If you want 24/7 support and call outs then get a dealer who can do just that. Your choice of dealer is down to you, not control 4.