Can't begin to say how disappointed I am with this system.

[thecodeman]

6 minutes ago, flyingron said:

Of course that doesn't address the stupid fileshare issues.    I can fix those but I suspect I'm just going to have to further firewall off the EA-5 and hope it doesn't break anything.

On the other hand, the fact that it's leaky as a sieve allowed me to put my own wall papers on the thing (my dealer had no idea how I did that).

 

I mean, these aren't exposed to the WWW so far as I know. If you're concerned about it being exposed on your local lan, I can get that, but who is on your trusted network that you don't trust? Wouldn't you be better served having it on a VLAN and your guests connected on a vlan that only kicks them out to the WWW? I presume you're connecting to the controller's local IP address for When/Then and Chrome is complaining about the self-issued cert ( I use SSL anywhere extension so it tries to force ssl to as many sites as possible). You can also do that through the secure web portal at https://customer.control4.com which builds a VPN tunnel to the controller automatically. Hope that helps.

[flyingron]

1. Nope, no SSL at all.    Not even with a self-issued cer

Can't get anything useful out of the website.   Even with a 4 sight license it just grinds around and comes up with a perpetually empty screen with only a c4 logo on it.

 

 

[thecodeman]

Just now, flyingron said:

Nope, no SSL at all.    Not even with a self-issued cert.

 

That box has to be ticked first in the dealer software.

[thecodeman]

1 hour ago, flyingron said:

1. Nope, no SSL at all.    Not even with a self-issued cer

Can't get anything useful out of the website.   Even with a 4 sight license it just grinds around and comes up with a perpetually empty screen with only a c4 logo on it.

 

 

Sounds like your upload speed is pretty slow, <2mb you said? If its satellite it may also have latency issues.

[Pounce]

3 hours ago, flyingron said:

My dealer is MIA,

What does this mean? They haven't responded to you on the weekend OR you can't get them and you think they have done a runner?

If you are not getting help I can completely understand your frustration since you do not have control of your system. Control is with the dealer.

[wnpublic]

4 hours ago, flyingron said:

 

 

Perhaps while you wait for support you can tell us some more networking buzzwords.

[Cyknight]

While I sympathize with your frustration as such, you say you've had a system up for two days and judge it on that. On top of that you're spouting about issues that are non-issues and whether you created the first stable mass output fusion reactor wouldn't mean a thing. And the first you do at all is say it's crap. That's not a very effective way of getting help if that is what you want, and if you don't want help, why bother at all?

It sounds like a poorly done set up - or pure networking issues, or both. That your network is 'up and running' and has worked fine for everything else means little to nothing I fear, as it needs to be a network that works properly with Control4 - not everything else. Unfortunate perhaps, but there it is.

Now, take a deep breath and ask actual questions.

[flyingron]

8 hours ago, thecodeman said:

Sounds like your upload speed is pretty slow, <2mb you said? If its satellite it may also have latency issues.

It's not satellite, it's two bonded (A)DSL pairs that only have 768K up (for an aggregate 1.5).    

However, if there was a network problem it appears to be entirely within the EA-5 because the issues went away doing nothing other than power cycling that unit.    Thanks for those who decided to denigrate me about my understanding of networks and network protocols. 

Yes, I apologize for being a bit irate.     I understand Control4 is a closed system and leaves me beholden to the dealer, but frankly, I thought that that meant that the level of support was going to be better than to leave me begging internet forums for hints (and yes, I did ask specific questions with regard to the Pandora in other threads and pretty much got a "works for me, problem must be on your end" answer).    

Anyhow, as near as I can tell, something seriously wedged the EA-5.    Being a LINUX box, I probably could have ssl'd into the thing and diagnosed it further, but I was a bit disappointed I had to do that.     I was expecting a company that claims to be ENTERTAINMENT based doesn't have even skeleton suggestions on the weekend.    Relying on "Joe's Home Theatre" to answer his phone/email on the weekend is not the level of support I thought I was paying for.

Still trying to figure out whether keeping (let alone expanding) this system is worth the pain and suffering.   If I wanted to support everything myself, I'd have just bought a bunch of Raspberry Pis.

 

[mujtaba.khokhar]

Still sounds like you have a crap install I’m sorry but I agree with the others you came in here raging like a bull in a china shop. We all tried to help you fix your issues there are many great and awesome dealers on here who could have connected to your system and had a look at your programming (oh wait another back door for you, stick your firewall on, toss this thing out of the window it’s the end of the world) honestly you’re making this into a huge deal for no reason.

also FYI the you should be able to connect to upload images for the wallpaper on touch screens and navigators if you had read the docs for composer he it mentions how you do it so nothing wrong here. And it’s not like you can do the same outside your local lan.... so where’s the issue? You say you’re an it guru but are you actually?

Now if you need help with your system ask some questions post some pictures maybe a video or two and I or someone else can advise you on how to go further.

I have many whole house systems running on control4 from TVs, to Blinds, to HVAC, to lighting, to coffee machines to BMW i8s and they all working fine no issues.

M


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[flyingron]

By the way, the people who decided to denigrate me for actually understanding networking, were in fact, wrong.   The problem was eventually traced to a malfunctioning UPS in the equipment rack.    The odd C4 lockups disappeared once it was removed from the loop.

[mujtaba.khokhar]

Having a crocked system is not a cause to "make a huge deal?"
Yeah, so the fact that the thing is innately a security hole isn't a big thing given the fact that it's sitting on a home lan, but the real issue was the fact the thing wasn't working at all (for still yet undetermined reasons) and there was no support.    Sorry, if my expectations were too high.
Yes, I'm disappointed with my installer.    Didn't even hear about a consumer version of composer before I started trying to unravel this thing.
But I don't understand the persistent trend here to insult someone who came looking for help.  

I complete get where you’re coming from like I said before a lot of my work is dealing with shite installs and putting things right

Regarding to it not working I do think your dealer hasn’t set things up properly, youre expectations are not too high you paid for a product and service and you should be supported for it. I have a second phone line I give to all of my customers for support and it’s with me at all times. I’m constantly on my emails and my phone on the look out.

Where are you located? If you’re in the U.K. I could pop down and see you?

Honestly Control4 is wonderful once it’s set up properly and working unfortunately there are dealers out there who make a quick penny and run away

M


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JSTRONG]

Flyingron.. the best suggestion here is that if you can't get your dealer to make it right for you then contact control4 and they will get you someone. I have 2  installs in my 2 homes and after it is setup the way it's supposed to be set up on the right networking equipment, control4 is the most reliable system out there. Rock solid and better then all of the others out there and I tried them all.

Get a dealer/installer that knows what he is doing. Then leave it alone once its all working

PS: I used a programmer from this forum and I don't regret that at all!

 

[seth_j]

 

2 hours ago, flyingron said:

Having a crocked system is not a cause to "make a huge deal?"

Yeah, so the fact that the thing is innately a security hole isn't a big thing given the fact that it's sitting on a home lan, but the real issue was the fact the thing wasn't working at all (for still yet undetermined reasons) and there was no support.    Sorry, if my expectations were too high.

Yes, I'm disappointed with my installer.    Didn't even hear about a consumer version of composer before I started trying to unravel this thing.

But I don't understand the persistent trend here to insult someone who came looking for help.  

1. No. You should raise sand. But it really sounds like you have networking issues.. whether you want to believe that  or not. Been doing this for 15 years. Your PC, phones, etc are way more forgiving of a bad network than C4 equipment. Everyone here knows this. We are trying to tell you that. 
2. C4 is no more of a security hole than any other device you have on your network. And, as others have suggested, if you believe it is you can have secure communications on and the password changed -- just like any other computer it is what it is. 
3. Maybe you should be. As others have said it sounds like you got a bad install out of the deal. We don't know the particulars or if the dealer is even finished. I'd hound him and Control4 until the job is complete. 
4. You weren't really looking for help. You were looking to complain. So lets get that straight. There's plenty complaining will get you -- and there's even more that asking for help here will get you. I think  you know the squeaky wheel gets the grease but don't bother coming here and complaining to a bunch of people who know this shit works when it is installed to specification. Nor does it help to argue 'facts' when you just are ignorant of the actual details. We've all heard it all for many, many years and quite frankly its old hat at this point. That's why you feel insulted. You complained. People said that cant be true an a proper system. You kept complaining. People offered legitimate suggestions. You kept complaining. Look for help, complain less. We don't get paid to be on this forum to help you (see point #3 to find the people who are paid to listen to you complain).

That said, I'm sure there are guys all over this thread that are happy to help you -- some of them have actually installed "$50,000" systems before that actually work. Sounds like you are in the UK or Australia? Some really good dealers in those areas too. We can help you here but please.. bitch and moan a little less when people actually offer you up some good advice. You'll have a much better experience.

[Engineerisaac]

We understand your frustration. However control4 has a Product > Dealer > Customer Model. They have it this way so that way a good integrator can get your system the way you want it. Ive been in the IT world for over 10 years. And every day I watch automation and media systems push a network beyond any business IT model would ever do.

We know your upset. However we deal with many who are upset they don't have direct control. Most of the times those who have the most issues with their systems are those also in the techie industry.

There are hacky dealers out there. Many of us made a name by cleaning up monsters. The neat thing about control4 is if you decided to change dealers that old dealer cant remote in to anything. Customers are indeed protected.

I personally have had customers with this exact same issue you express. We ended up replacing every piece of networking gear in the house in the end. And it indeed did solve the issues.

[Cyknight]

We truly do understand - but you're going about it the wrong way - Control4 has a consumer contact where you can complain to, and yes that can give you results.

Coming in stating more or less right off the bat going about how you've done what in networking is the first major red light going on - as mentioned several times now, just because you have a good working network setup for yourself does NOT mean it is a working network for C4. You can gripe about that, but it will not make a difference. The network NEEDS to be a proper setup for Control4 (which generally speaking will work perfectly fine for almost anything else too!) and it sure sounds like it isn't.

Your whole gripe on the security side is something you seem to feel a need to keep going at - it's already been pointed out that it's inaccurate - that most security risks you run are based on the dealer not settings things correctly. Might as well complain about the fact that your own networking gear has known default passwords...and you are of course not forwarding any ports right?

I'm going to play devil's advocate here, but if you use that same tone to your existing dealer, I could understand (though not agree!) that they don't get back to you.

 

4 hours ago, seth_j said:

You weren't really looking for help. You were looking to complain. So lets get that straight. There's plenty complaining will get you -- and there's even more that asking for help here will get you. I think  you know the squeaky wheel gets the grease but don't bother coming here and complaining to a bunch of people who know this shit works when it is installed to specification. Nor does it help to argue 'facts' when you just are ignorant of the actual details. We've all heard it all for many, many years and quite frankly its old hat at this point. That's why you feel insulted. You complained. People said that cant be true an a proper system. You kept complaining. People offered legitimate suggestions. You kept complaining. Look for help, complain less. We don't get paid to be on this forum to help you (see point #3 to find the people who are paid to listen to you complain)

This really sums it up though.

Ask for help, and find out what a good Control4 system can do for you.

[Shivam Paw]

Everyone, let's take a deep breath and fix this

Almost definitely, you've gotten yourself a bad dealer and/or network.

Network wise, it needs to all be reset and built AROUND the C4 system - only then work with the other devices.

Dealer wise, communicate with them, tell them what's going on. If they aren't helping then email Control4 and they will get you sorted.

Finally, you mention an intercom app, that hasn't been released yet so feel free to tell us how it works  

[mujtaba.khokhar]

Finally, you mention an intercom app, that hasn't been released yet so feel free to tell us how it works  

I think he’s referring to the intercom on the touch screens rather than the app - not too sure though



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[flyingron]

No, my network is secure without known default passwords and other gambits.   No, there is no port forwarding now (there was, but it was very isolated in what it was accessing...most of my test stuff is in AWS both to get it off my internal net and because my bandwidth to the internet is so poor).   I was dealing with computer security and networking issues since the 80's.   You can insult me all you want but the simple truth was, the problem went away when the EA5 was rebooted.    If there was a networking problem, it was the EA5 that was causing it, though nothing but the C4 stuff seemed to be affected.    So yes, the c4 can be made secure, but still when your held hostage by a dealer who doesn't seem to care, it all works out to about the same thing.    It seems that everybody wants to harp on one aspect of my complaint with the misinstall of my system without addressing the other issues.

Finally heard back from my dealer and hopefully he will have an answer.    I didn't design this installation, I went with what he suggested.   Thanks to some of you who decided to offer suggestions rather than insults, I have some specific things to ask/tell him.     For that I thank you.

Yes, I am in the US (Not the UK).   Yes, I'm talking about the touchscreen intercom feature. 

[Cyknight]

1 hour ago, flyingron said:

You can insult me all you want but the simple truth was, the problem went away when the EA5 was rebooted.    If there was a networking problem, it was the EA5 that was causing it, though nothing but the C4 stuff seemed to be affected.

Insult? Where, b whom? Your definition of insult seems a little off.

If there's a networking problem, it can cause the EA5 to freeze up - we could talk in circles forever who causes what but the thing that needs 'fixing' is STILL the network

1 hour ago, flyingron said:

 I was dealing with computer security and networking issues since the 80's.

Wonderful. So I point out that claims along these lines will do no good. Yet you continue with them.

They mean nothing. They do not impress me. No I will not state my own line of experience. It doesn't matter.

 

All you want to do is complain. Go ahead, vent your frustration. You'll be on ignore

[Engineerisaac]

Heres the thing. This forum has taught me one thing over all else. It took me awhile to get this into my head but once I got it this place became fun.

You need a very thick skin to post here.

Those who are here are extremely intelligent but at that cost they are blunt and many have their own ideas about how to do something.

The very fact you come here asking for help means you are looking for someone or something to help.

Theses guys are here voluntarily with no payment in an industry that certainly charges during the day for.

You keep defending your intelligence over networking. Just stop being offended and think objectively. In a home automation network there can be so much network traffic it's disgusting. Things can get jacked up fast.

The programming of a controller can be done so many ways. One wrong move and we can send a controller into a death spin into the ground.

Issues and mistakes will happen. In fact they are prone enough to happen that control4 will go out of there way to make things right.

I've seen them invest in this first hand. 

They are a good and passionate company with dealers who will defend them to the core.

After all this in the thread. I wish to ask...

Did you come here for help, or did you come to complain? I think I know the answer. But I'll tell you everyone here wants to help.

[Stevestobo]

I had a rock solid network for 4 years before i installed control4, no issues, ran multiple laptops, servers, iPads, multiple echo’s, IOT equipment, no issues, VOIP, Skype, video conferencing, no issues.

Installed control4, intercom on T3,s did not work, Spotify dropped off, touch screens were flakey and too many issues to list here and I thought long and hard about returning the whole system  

my dealer said it was network issues, initially I thought, yeah right here goes he wants more money, how can this be as it’s worked for ages no issues, but, I changed the router to a Pakedge wireless WR1 router that was set up to control4 standards and every issue vanished, system has been rock solid ever since. 

I have asked plenty of questions on here and always got help, even purchased a few things too and find everyone is really helpful

I am not a dealer, just a user

[therockhr]

What I find funny is that if this guy would have come on here before he got his system installed and asked for advice on system layout and network guidelines, half of the responses would have just been "you need to work with your dealer". This guy DID work with a dealer, gets a poorly working system and most of the responses are "sounds like you got a bad dealer". Can you all not see the problem with this? 

[Engineerisaac]

I see no problem. Bad dealers are shut down all the time. Control4 wants healthy competition so they don't over extend markets. However in some areas they can't find any good dealers to work other regions.

The business model of control4 has dealers due to the complications the product has. So it's our burden as a dealer to do things right to the best of our ability.

When those dealers don't hold to par that experience then control4 will step in and make it right.

Usually a good dealer will call control4 if things start on the wrong foot, when they don't a customer has a portal to complain.

So many of us dealers will say that but not turn into sales pitchers here due to respect for each other.

[3D - Benn]

It's not the responsibility of the people on these forums. Everyone here with knowledge on the matter is here on their own voluntary basis. This customer obviously has substantial issues with a new install and wanted to rant about it.  This place is great for the odd hint or tip but it's not an appropriate place to help fault find potentially big issues with a new install. Thats the job of the dealer who installed it and no one else. If the dealer is not providing support on a new install then get another dealer and take it up with C4. 

Ignoring peoples questions who are trying to help diagnose the issue and instead focusing on ranting further will not achieve anything. 

[AK1]

We do a lot of take-overs, problem solving and project review,  including for many members of this forum. I would suggest you ask me or one of the other dealers specializing in this to do a preliminary review of your project. Just looking at your project, while not being able to necessarily see the entire network side, is usually a reliable indicator of the quality of the installation and can provide good information for remedial action.