Lee_C4 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Hi all, i'm new to the forums and looking for some advice on the best audio solution for my C4 system. About 3 years ago i had a c4 system installed including an 8x8 HD matrix combined with a KNX lighting system, door locks and integrated heatmiser heating controls. At the time of installation i also had speaker cables installed in every room but wasn't quite ready to pull out the additional cost for the system at the time. I'm now ready but since then amazon echo has arrived! Or should i go with sonos and install a connect amp for each zone and install in ceiling speakers? Or maybe just go for a separate sonos speaker system? or should i go with a C4 16x16 audio matrix and install ceiling and bookshelf speakers? There's so many options! Here is the important stuff that might make the decision easier to make... Number of zones in the house 15 Number of wired speakers required 24 (if a wired system is what i go for) Budget - £3-£4k - obviously if i decide to go for Sonos connect amps i'll be lucky if i get 3 zones out of this budget but it can be expanded over time... Would like to play music from streamed services such as amazon music and spotify from my phone - will this work with a C4 audio matrix? Any ideas or suggestions are more than welcome, i don't know much about the technical side so please keep it simple and if there are other systems out there that will offer the above that i haven't mentioned please do suggest. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LollerAgent Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 It would be extremely expensive to support 15 zones with Sonos CONNECT:AMP's (they are ~$500 USD/each). If you want true C4 integration, using a Triad 24x24 audio matrix and amps is likely your best option. It doesn't really matter what amps you use as long as they fit your needs. Dealers typically will try to sell you the Triad/C4 amps, but many here are completely happy using Episode, Dayton or other multi-channel amps that are cheaper than Triad. Depending on the C4 controller(s) that you have, you will be able to stream services to each zone, join zones, etc. You will be able to use Spotify Connect (if you are running 2.10+) and Shairbridge to enable AirPlay for each of your zones (or groups of zones). Other, less C4-integrated options would include using several multi-channel amps and Chromecast audio's (or SONOS Connects) as sources. There are some other "all-in-one" solutions as well that may be worth looking at including HTD's Lync system, Russound and Nuvo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 What kind of HD matrix do you have? Are the video zones also some of the zones you are putting the speakers in? Sonos is pricy, dont play as nicely with 3rd party/allow line input via programing st the moment, and the amps are underpowered I would get an 8 zone triad dummy amp, load it up with 4 echo dots, install 4 sets of speakers and rock that to start with, when the budget opens up. Get an audio matrix and 4 more sets of speakers and load up the sources, then when ready more amps and speakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_C4 Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 Thanks for the replies guys. I have an 8x8 Wyrestorm HDBaseT HD matrix. All 8 inputs are full and i have 5 TVs and a projector hooked up. I think sonos is ruled out purely on cost. The Triad 24x24 matrix sounds expensive especially as i'll need an amp and would like at least 4 zones working to start with so 4 pairs of half decent speakers. How does the amazon dot combined with the triad amp work?? I'm intrigued! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Lee_C4 said: How does the amazon dot combined with the triad amp work?? I'm intrigued! There is essentially no time ins with c4, just a way to dip your toes in and set yourself up to scale into it when you are ready and enjoy music in the interim with echo native services and spotify connect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 If you are doing it on a budget you could get a used C4 audio matrix for a few hundred and mate it to a couple of Dayton Amps. Honestly, I would invest in the speakers, but that's just me. I'm not sure you can hit your target with good speakers if you need 24. The other question is how many concurrent different streaming audio sources will you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave w Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I still have these for sale that may help you..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 On 6/1/2018 at 4:41 PM, Pounce said: If you are doing it on a budget you could get a used C4 audio matrix for a few hundred and mate it to a couple of Dayton Amps. Honestly, I would invest in the speakers, but that's just me. I'm not sure you can hit your target with good speakers if you need 24. The other question is how many concurrent different streaming audio sources will you need? Agree with Pounce. That is a lot of speakers and zones for your budget. Even at $200/speaker you're maxed out and those are really cheap speakers if you have any in-wall/in-ceiling placements. May be worth prioritizing some zones and getting the amp/matrix that will support all of them in the long-haul (the Triads mentioned above would be great) and then just adding speakers as you can afford them. A quality speaker is worth the wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 I`m a great Sonos fan and would go for Play3/5 for each with amazon dot to give you full control with out having a remote, iPad or T3 Touchscreen close to hand. It is so easy to use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee_C4 Posted June 4, 2018 Author Share Posted June 4, 2018 Thanks for all your suggestions. I think i'll prioritise 4/5 zones to start with and will be looking at the triad 24 matrix as the initial investment and building up speakers as and when budget allows. Just to summarise would someone kindly suggest a kit list please with links to the details online so i can build an approximate cost? Tbh i have no idea if my 3/4k budget will get anywahere near the below. Audio Matrix - Triad 24 x 24 Whatever amp works best with the above A mid range ceiling pair of speakers A mid range bookshelf or wall mounted pair of speakers Also i'm based in the North East of England for reference. Thanks in advance all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbooo Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 edit: I don't trust my numbers, need to check. Anyway I think it'd be over a grand per zone IF you do the WHOLE house. Sonos Connect Amps would be simplest especially if you want to DIY, no real need to bother integrating it with C4 just use their app (which has better Spotify functions anyway). About 800 quid a zone with decent-ish ceiling speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 IMHO control4 AUdio all the way. Sonos is over rated and the sound quality isn't the best. I think Triad's sound better..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 3 hours ago, msgreenf said: IMHO control4 AUdio all the way. Sonos is over rated and the sound quality isn't the best. I think Triad's sound better..... We disagree on this one !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 46 minutes ago, Gary Leeds UK said: We disagree on this one !! what aspect? you think Sonos speakers sound better? or the app? or what about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Are the speaker wires in the ceiling or walls with binding posts etc? Curious to know the ease of install. That could sway you towards one type of solution vs another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbooo Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Doing the whole house by the full Control4 method with the Triad matrix, Triad 8 zone amps (x2) and, for example, a pair of entry-level B&W in-ceiling speakers in every room would cost you in the region of £10k excluding labour. The speakers are half of that. If you did it with Triad Ones, which cost about the same as Sonos Connect Amps, you could do it one room at a time. The price would probably be a bit more, about £1k per room/zone. They do a nice rack-mount for 2 Triad Ones so you could still make it look neat, but it'd take up a lot of room. Or just stick them on a shelf.. Whether C4 or Sonos is "better" is a tough call. I think Sonos Connect Amps sound reasonably good, others will poo-poo them. One zone at a time with Sonos would cost about the same as Triad Ones but you could do it all by yourself if you don't need to integrate it with the C4 stuff and would just use the Sonos app. If you need line-ins for video-audio in rooms etc. or want to use C4 controls / touch panels then it'd need some programming. Don't take any of this as gospel, it's just an attempt to give you a ball-park figure! If your dealer says it's 30 grand I'm very sorry (although I'd suggest looking for a different dealer ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardware Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 37 minutes ago, timbooo said: Doing the whole house by the full Control4 method with the Triad matrix, Triad 8 zone amps (x2) and, for example, a pair of entry-level B&W in-ceiling speakers in every room would cost you in the region of £10k excluding labour. The speakers are half of that. If you did it with Triad Ones, which cost about the same as Sonos Connect Amps, you could do it one room at a time. The price would probably be a bit more, about £1k per room/zone. They do a nice rack-mount for 2 Triad Ones so you could still make it look neat, but it'd take up a lot of room. Or just stick them on a shelf.. Whether C4 or Sonos is "better" is a tough call. I think Sonos Connect Amps sound reasonably good, others will poo-poo them. One zone at a time with Sonos would cost about the same as Triad Ones but you could do it all by yourself if you don't need to integrate it with the C4 stuff and would just use the Sonos app. If you need line-ins for video-audio in rooms etc. or want to use C4 controls / touch panels then it'd need some programming. Don't take any of this as gospel, it's just an attempt to give you a ball-park figure! If your dealer says it's 30 grand I'm very sorry (although I'd suggest looking for a different dealer ) A Sonos AMP is around $200 more than a Triad One. The Triad is a better amp for sure...but the Sonos Amp would sound just as well if you could put that money into the speakers instead as someone previously suggested. Spending money on amplification and pulling the budget from the speakers isn't suggested IMO. A 4zone or 8zone Triad amp will save you $$$ by large amounts. A 4zone amp is $1200... 4 single zone Sonos amps would be $2000... 4 Triad Ones would be $2800... You would also need to consider sources as you have asked. Triad Ones will get you as many separate listening streams as you have Triad Ones... depending on your sources..you may not even need a 24x24 Matrix. You can Airplay audio from your device or hook up a streamer and digitize it into the system. With a matrix and "dumb" amps... you are limited to whatever is into the matrix... if you only have one steamer... all zones will have to listen to the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 1 hour ago, msgreenf said: what aspect? you think Sonos speakers sound better? or the app? or what about it? The Sonos app is very good, the sonos mesh is very good ~ the sound from 2 play3 and sub is very good. The fexiabilty just to pick up and move is very good the interaction with Alex is brilliant. For me the last 7 years of ownership have been trouble free and great Communication from Sonos to end users Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 You could also look to buy a pair of used C4 amps for much less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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