elee532 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 I've been having some problems with my Asus WiFi router, and I'm looking to replace it. I'm wondering if I should just go to Best Buy and pickup another WiFi, or maybe pickup some used Pakedge equipment on eBay. My setup is pretty modest. I currently use Control4 to control my home theater (AV receiver, Nvidia Shield, OPPO Bluray player). I'm also about to add a few C4 keypads and dimmer switches. Everything is in the same room. Everything is hardwired with the exception of the iPads and Android phones that we use for control and a Bluesound Speaker that I have upstairs. It looks like I can pickup a used Pakedge RE-2 router and a couple WK-1 access points for about $500 on eBay. Is there any reason to spend the extra money for a setup like this vs. a decent WiFi router like the Netgear X6 AC4000 router which is about half the price? Thanks for any advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 What is the square footage you are covering? Multiple access points will handle a larger footprint/multiple floors/obstructions much better than a single consumer router which is meh to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 2 hours ago, elee532 said: decent WiFi router like the Netgear X6 AC4000 It is NEVER 'good' to use a router with built in WiFi. It is one of those things where convenience does NOT trump function. Doesn't have to be pakedge, but please just turn off WiFi on your router and use a truw Access Point for WiFi....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieF Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 Option 1 (Pakeage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elee532 Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 5 hours ago, sonic30101 said: What is the square footage you are covering? Multiple access points will handle a larger footprint/multiple floors/obstructions much better than a single consumer router which is meh to begin with. About 3,000 sq. ft.. Two floors + finished basement which is where the media room is. Currently the router is on the first floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elee532 Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livitup Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 If your Control4 system is as simple as a single EA-1 doing AV in a single room, and a handful of light switches, a "Best Buy grade" Router/Access Point combo will probably be just fine for you. "Blasphemy!" Many in this forum will shout. I am prepared for the pitchforks and torches. The reality is that most consumer grade gear is good enough for the average consumer. Many on this forum are NOT the average consumer. However, I don't hear people suggesting multi-thousand dollar network infrastructure upgrades to use Wink or SmartThings hubs, and honestly speaking, an EA-1 doesn't put that much more load on a home network than one of them. I have CAT6 to every room in my house, 8 TVs, a theater, and a rack full of computer gear - you bet I have a pro-grade network. Dealers like pro-grade stuff because it's more likely they will be able to remotely troubleshoot and resolve problems without truck rolls. But does a single-room C4 setup really need all that? I personally don't think so. As long as you can see what's connected and reserve DHCP addresses for gear that you want to have a consistent IP address, that's really all you need. (Ducks for cover...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 If you mean a $70-$100 Best Buy grade router/AP, sure. If you mean a $40 AP, no way. It WILL have issues with the Control4 system. The issue isn't about bandwidth, it's about reliability and always-there performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 4 hours ago, livitup said: If your Control4 system is as simple as a single EA-1 doing AV in a single room, and a handful of light switches, a "Best Buy grade" Router/Access Point combo will probably be just fine for you. "Blasphemy!" Many in this forum will shout. I am prepared for the pitchforks and torches. The reality is that most consumer grade gear is good enough for the average consumer. Many on this forum are NOT the average consumer. However, I don't hear people suggesting multi-thousand dollar network infrastructure upgrades to use Wink or SmartThings hubs, and honestly speaking, an EA-1 doesn't put that much more load on a home network than one of them. I have CAT6 to every room in my house, 8 TVs, a theater, and a rack full of computer gear - you bet I have a pro-grade network. Dealers like pro-grade stuff because it's more likely they will be able to remotely troubleshoot and resolve problems without truck rolls. But does a single-room C4 setup really need all that? I personally don't think so. As long as you can see what's connected and reserve DHCP addresses for gear that you want to have a consistent IP address, that's really all you need. (Ducks for cover...) No pitchforks here, but in general. A single consumer grade router wont properly cover that area. Regardless of having c4 so I would go with a least 2 APs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Guy Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I would go with: 3 Ubiquiti AC Pros (Lite or LR) 1 Ubiquiti USG or ERLite 3 With the remaining $40-$50 I would buy a bottle of wine and a few pounds of meat for grilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elee532 Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 I’m looking at the following used: Pakedge RE-2 ($150), WK-1 (2 @ $150 each), S8P4&3 Gigabit PoE switch ($60). I had budgeted $250 for a WiFi router, so this is double my budget. I’m hoping this give me better reliability, speed, or coverage than a $250 WiFi router from Best Buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Double the budget, used on eBay? You sure that’s a good idea? Can you download the firmware yourself, or do you have to be a dealer? I guess i’d just be concerned about buying something used, then having to pay a dealer that didn’t sell it to you for support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 9 hours ago, livitup said: If your Control4 system is as simple as a single EA-1 doing AV in a single room, and a handful of light switches, a "Best Buy grade" Router/Access Point combo will probably be just fine for you. If you are careful and simply drive to work and back, using no insurance will probably be fine for you You're right, I don't actually mean that. Now, your consumer office supplier or computer specialist will likely have some decent models. 9 hours ago, livitup said: "Blasphemy!" Many in this forum will shout. I am prepared for the pitchforks and torches. Hardly - but it is lacking in accurate. You see SOME 'consumer' grade routers will do fine - many will not. Ie you really shouldn't be running a linksys or D-Link router. Some netgears are fine, others are not. Asus is generally fine, but don't go for their cheapest models. It's not about PRICE as such here - it's about their software design. The biggest problem is that many are too simplified and activate all kinds of additional functions by default, and sometimes without the ability to shut them down. SIP Alg, QoS, Multicast.... This is not so much about 'pro' vs 'consumer' grade as it is about getting the right gear and setup. 9 hours ago, livitup said: The reality is that most consumer grade gear is good enough for the average consumer. Many on this forum are NOT the average consumer. However, I don't hear people suggesting multi-thousand dollar network infrastructure upgrades to use Wink or SmartThings hubs, and honestly speaking, an EA-1 doesn't put that much more load on a home network than one of them. I have CAT6 to every room in my house, 8 TVs, a theater, and a rack full of computer gear - you bet I have a pro-grade network. No, the reality is that a good portion of consumer gear is good enough. Not most. The PROBLEM is that consumer networking gets changed every year because that is 'what is expected' - so it's difficult and generally not worth it to check on such a large pool of gear that changes so rapidly. Better ways to spend the time and money. 9 hours ago, livitup said: Dealers like pro-grade stuff because it's more likely they will be able to remotely troubleshoot and resolve problems without truck rolls. Our clients like it for the same reason - lower cost, no need to be home, no need to wait on scheduling etc etc. Plus more so as per above - it's not worth our time to stay up to date with the consumer lines when pro-gear isn't really that much more expensive 9 hours ago, livitup said: But does a single-room C4 setup really need all that? I personally don't think so. As long as you can see what's connected and reserve DHCP addresses for gear that you want to have a consistent IP address, that's really all you need. Except that 'all you really need' is to be able to trust the gear, without having to reinvent the wheel every time. So are you going to test every router, every firmware for people asking for what gear they should use? Again the reason is not because the quality isn't in 'consumer gear' - it's in the reliability and consitancy, without costing a ton more. 9 hours ago, livitup said: (Ducks for cover...) Duck Duck Goose... Just to point it out, in general the comments in the thread talk about using a proper setup with a router and one or more APs being a proper solution vs trying to make a router also be an AP, a switch etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 28 minutes ago, Brownbatsbreath said: Can you download the firmware yourself, or do you have to be a dealer? I guess i’d just be concerned about buying something used, then having to pay a dealer that didn’t sell it to you for support. To be clear - Pakedge does NOT require a dealer for general access to the settings. As far as specific C4 support for setup - that may be a slightly different matter, but you are NOT blocked from the router software/firmware in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elee532 Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 Yikes. It hadn’t occurred to me that I would need a dealer to setup/configure the Pakedge gear. I read the RE-2 manual, and it looked very straight forward. I had assumed it was all configuration I could do myself. I sure hope I’m not locked out of setting this up myself. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekki70 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 honestly buying a wifi-router combo isn't the best for an automated home. it could be your bottleneck. what you want is a routers processor do all the routing, let a switch take the load and do all the switchin, let the processing power of any router do its job. add in a few waps, I would do 1 in top floor and 1 in basement on opposite sides of the house about 25' from the side of the house this way most of your signal is in your houses and not filling your side yards, and see how your coverage is on the 1st floor. adjust output power on waps if needed or add a 3rd if needed. shouldn't really need a 3rd though in a 3k square foot house, but if theres is a lot of metal. or concrete you may need 1 wap per floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 On 6/24/2018 at 6:30 PM, Cyknight said: It is NEVER 'good' to use a router with built in WiFi. It is one of those things where convenience does NOT trump function. Doesn't have to be pakedge, but please just turn off WiFi on your router and use a truw Access Point for WiFi....... Where is the performance hit at and how much is it when using a router/wifi combo? I'm not disagreeing with you that separate wifi AP and router is a better setup, I just wonder how much better it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prabeau Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 2200 s.f. here basement and 2 floors. Installed Ubiquiti Router USG 3P and 1 - UAP AC lite, router and AC in basement. Full access all floors plus garage and outside 25' around the house. I installed this myself with no difficulty. It replaced the Cisco equipment installed by my dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I got great coverage with the Ubiquiti stuff. Simple to add more if needed. Option to add the wall version also where you might already have ethernet. I'd buy new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieF Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 16 hours ago, The Good Guy said: I would go with: 3 Ubiquiti AC Pros (Lite or LR) 1 Ubiquiti USG or ERLite 3 With the remaining $40-$50 I would buy a bottle of wine and a few pounds of meat for grilling. Couple that with 50 hours of online research........ If you value your time, this is not the way to go. If you do however like to DIY and learn about IT, then you'll enjoy this process..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 29 minutes ago, RobbieF said: Couple that with 50 hours of online research. Grilling is easy man! ok, but seriously, what is the 50 hours for? Setting up Ubiquiti is really honestly about as easy as a consumer product. Yes, there are a lot of options, but for just routing and wifi it takes about 5 minutes. You don't have to touch all the other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieF Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 18 minutes ago, Pounce said: Grilling is easy man! ok, but seriously, what is the 50 hours for? Setting up Ubiquiti is really honestly about as easy as a consumer product. Yes, there are a lot of options, but for just routing and wifi it takes about 5 minutes. You don't have to touch all the other options. True if all goes well, and you have a fair level of IT competence... But there are so many variables, and one small issue with someone with little knowledge can burn 10 hours pretty quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, RobbieF said: True if all goes well, and you have a fair level of IT competence... But there are so many variables, and one small issue with someone with little knowledge can burn 10 hours pretty quick I wouldn't disagree with this, but I've rarely seen issues. It's almost plug and play for wireless. I wouldn't let it scare anyone. You aren't really going to get people trying to set these up that don't have a little experience with what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 7 hours ago, therockhr said: Where is the performance hit at and how much is it when using a router/wifi combo? I'm not disagreeing with you that separate wifi AP and router is a better setup, I just wonder how much better it is. It was mostly explained in the post right above your own. The average router's (and that includes 'pro' gear) that is a combo generally dowsn't have the backplane to handle it all. Not to mentioned, your router now becomes a main 'switch' that has to route WiFi traffic back to the actual central switch (I'm hoping you aren't using the router for that). Then there's location to consider, as a router is generally installed in an A/V rack ir furnace room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elee532 Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 6:32 PM, The Good Guy said: I would go with: 3 Ubiquiti AC Pros (Lite or LR) 1 Ubiquiti USG or ERLite 3 With the remaining $40-$50 I would buy a bottle of wine and a few pounds of meat for grilling. Thanks for the suggestion! I’m curious, is there a reason that you would recommend Ubiquiti over Pakedge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.