Switching to Ubiquiti - hardware questions

[jfh]

I’m looking to move away from ASUS and Netgear on my network (mostly not having a combined router and wireless device).

I was looking into an AmpliFi HD either ad a router/WiFi or a wired AP but then started looking into Ubiquiti, which would also let me use the Cinegration driver for some desired function.

I’m not a networking noob but don’t quite understand what exactly I need.

 

Here’s what I’m thinking;

UniFi cloud key v2 (Think I need this to manage the network or a dedicated PC or rPi)

2x UniFi AP AC Pro (one upstairs, one downstairs)

EdgeRouter4 or UniFi Security gateway (not sure why to pick one over the other)

 

Any help/guidance advice welcome and appreciated, especially on what to use for a router.

 

[ecschnei]

I would recommend the unifi security gateway

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[janthony6]

USG is old and damn near dead.  That’s a bad red.

UDM or UDM-Pro are the correct answers.

[chudel]

48 minutes ago, jfh said:

Here’s what I’m thinking;

UniFi cloud key v2 (Think I need this to manage the network or a dedicated PC or rPi)

2x UniFi AP AC Pro (one upstairs, one downstairs)

EdgeRouter4 or UniFi Security gateway (not sure why to pick one over the other)

 

While I don't use the Cinegration driver, here is my setup. I'm taking advantage of their recently released UDM (Ubiquiti Dream Machine).  The UDM combines an AP, GB-capable IDS/IPS, CloudKey Management, and 4-port switch + WAN connection.

 - UDM
 - 2x Ubiquiti 8-60W (4 POE ports each) switches
 - 2x Unify AP AC In-wall  (from previous house)
 

The setup is pretty simple after that - two VLANs and two WiFi networks in my case for regular and regular-OT (C4 and IOT gear).  Plus a simple guest wifi portal.  You can assign VLANs based on port quite easily. 

[jfh]

15 minutes ago, janthony6 said:

USG is old and damn near dead.  That’s a bad red.

UDM or UDM-Pro are the correct answers.

Would I need the Cloud key with one of the UDM boxes?

[chudel]

14 minutes ago, jfh said:

Would I need the Cloud key with one of the UDM boxes?

No - UDM includes the "Cloud Key", which is to say remote (or local) management.

[Dave w]

USG isn't dead.  It is still perfectly fine for a small home network and with the UDM-Pro just being released there will be a good supply of used USGs and cloud keys available in coming weeks.   So good opportunity to save a few bucks.  

[KWD]

Just ordered a pair of UDM-Pros to replace two USG-Pros. If you have Gig internet and want to use IPS then the UDM-Pro is really the only option. Also the VPN is pretty slow on the USG, UDM-Pro should fix that. 

[zaphod]

I don't think you can use Edgerouter if you want to use the Unifi Controller as that is not part of the same family.   I have a USG and several Access Points.  If you want to take full advantage of the monitoring offered by Unifi then you might want to consider Unifi wired switches as well.

[zaphod]

7 hours ago, KWD said:

Just ordered a pair of UDM-Pros to replace two USG-Pros. If you have Gig internet and want to use IPS then the UDM-Pro is really the only option. Also the VPN is pretty slow on the USG, UDM-Pro should fix that. 

Does the USG even have proper VPN?  One of my few frustrations with the USG is that it does not easily run OpenVPN server which I was able to have on my old Asus router.  I did have it running for a while, but you had to run a bunch of commands in the CLI as it wasn't supported in the Controller GUI.  But then it died and I couldn't get it back alive so now I just run OpenVPN server in a docker container on my unRAID server.

[jfh]

My p

1 hour ago, zaphod said:

I don't think you can use Edgerouter if you want to use the Unifi Controller as that is not part of the same family.   I have a USG and several Access Points.  If you want to take full advantage of the monitoring offered by Unifi then you might want to consider Unifi wired switches as well.

Yeah, I had seen a post that said EdgeRouter and C4 didn’t play well together so I switched to dream machine.  I waffled between DM and DM-Pro and went with DM because I don’t see myself using the NVR (and I could get the DM faster).

My main switch is Araknis and didn’t see a good reason to change now, though the monitoring would be nice.

I ordered;

Dream Machine

UniFi FlexHD  Wave 2 WiFi AP

Unifi nanoHD Wave 2 WiFi AP (might not use and get one of the outlet mounted APs instead as I have a perfect spot upstairs for it)

 

[zaphod]

I recently bought one of the cheaper AC-Lites to add to my older devices as one room in my house had very weak coverage.  To be honest, I am not 100% sure what the difference is between the nanoHD and the AC-Lite is.  I think it is speed, but I am pretty sure the AC-Lite can do at least 100Mbps which is plenty in a home setting.  I typically have about 40-50 wifi devices on my LAN but it is rare that more than 2-3 are using any bandwidth.  I think the HD devices are more useful in corporate settings where you get lots of devices on the network at once, all trying to use lots of bandwidth.

[lippavisual]

Ac lites are wave 1 ac with a 3x3 MIMO

nanos are wave 2 ac with 4x4 MIMO

basically wave 2 allows for faster throughput and can talk to multiple devices at the same time.

Theres a chart floating around their forum that shows the differences. 

[zaphod]

Are Wave 2 overkill for a typical family home?  My house is wide and the walls seem to greatly attenuate the wifi signal.  Therefore I have five WAPs.  At any one time there may be about 40 wifi devices, but most of the many of these devices (Echos, ring doorbell, smart scale, Sonos, LED light controllers) use very little bandwidth.

Therefore is it worthwhile to get the nanos?  Or am I just as well served with the AC lites?  Most of my APs are the older UAPs that are going to be deprecated in a little over a year.  I either have to replace them or not upgrade the Unifi Controller.

[lippavisual]

That depends on your use case.  Wave 2 will certainly allow zippier response by being able to communicate with multiple devices at a time.

Allowed throughput is also higher.

The original UAPS I always thought we’re junk because of 2.4 only.

Too many variables for me to state whether that works better for you or not. 

[zaphod]

24 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

The original UAPS I always thought we’re junk because of 2.4 only.

The funny thing about this is that my devices seem to really prefer 2.4 over 5 for some reason.  I have two WAPs that can do both 5 and 2.4 and the vast majority of clients on those WAPs seem to prefer 2.4.  I can't figure out what that is as I would think 2.4 would be more congested.  My home isn't that congested in general as my lot is 100' x 300' so it isn't like I have a ton of overlap from the neighbours, although in parts of the house I can see the SSIDs from next door.

And many of my devices definitely have 5GHz radios, such as iPhones and iPads of recent vintage, plus lots of Echo Dots.

Maybe I should try creating a separate network/SSID for 5GHz.

[lippavisual]

Always separate the 2 spectrums.  That’s the only way to steer your newer devices to 5Gh.

2.4 has better penetration through floors and ceilings, so It always seems like the stronger signal when the two spectrums are combined.  Dual nic, wireless, Devices take their pick of the network based on RSSI results, not throughput/bandwidth available.

I always separate, usually do “myssid-5” and “myssid-2.4”.  Set each wap To different channels, based on location.  Tune the radios power so you get slight overlap between each wap.  Then set RSSI release levels, if needed, for those sticky clients  

 

[Alt]

Just for the record Edgerouter4 is a great router and works well with control4 

[KWD]

On 2/3/2020 at 8:10 AM, zaphod said:

Does the USG even have proper VPN?  One of my few frustrations with the USG is that it does not easily run OpenVPN server which I was able to have on my old Asus router.  I did have it running for a while, but you had to run a bunch of commands in the CLI as it wasn't supported in the Controller GUI.  But then it died and I couldn't get it back alive so now I just run OpenVPN server in a docker container on my unRAID server.

IPSec yes with hardware offloading. Supposedly can do 800MBps. They can do OpenVPN but I’m sure it’s pretty slow. 

[prabeau]

I have been using a USG with UAP-AC-Lite with band steering in a 2500sf  2 floor house.

My iPhones, macs, echo and fire stick all latch on to the 5gh no matter what 

[zaphod]

Do you just have one SSID set up for both frequencies, or do you have separate SSIDs for each freq?  I currently have two dual radio WAPs and four 2.4GHz WAPs.  I am wondering how things will work if I set up separate networks based on frequency - as in, when I am in a part of the house that only has 2.4GHz and then move to a part of the house with dual will my phone stay on the 2.4GHz SSID or will it switch to 5GHz?

[ekohn00]

1 hour ago, zaphod said:

Do you just have one SSID set up for both frequencies, or do you have separate SSIDs for each freq?  I currently have two dual radio WAPs and four 2.4GHz WAPs.  I am wondering how things will work if I set up separate networks based on frequency - as in, when I am in a part of the house that only has 2.4GHz and then move to a part of the house with dual will my phone stay on the 2.4GHz SSID or will it switch to 5GHz?

Your phone "typically" will move to the strongest signal. My phone will bounce to 2.5 in areas that have weak 5.

unifi easily allows either combined or separate names for SSID or multiple.  Comes in handy for some 2.4 smart switches I throw on the network - I put them in a simple 2.4 only SSID.

 

[prabeau]

6 hours ago, zaphod said:

Do you just have one SSID set up for both frequencies, or do you have separate SSIDs for each freq?  I currently have two dual radio WAPs and four 2.4GHz WAPs.  I am wondering how things will work if I set up separate networks based on frequency - as in, when I am in a part of the house that only has 2.4GHz and then move to a part of the house with dual will my phone stay on the 2.4GHz SSID or will it switch to 5GHz?

1 , SSID, works well

[Sooner]

On 2/2/2020 at 5:07 PM, chudel said:

While I don't use the Cinegration driver, here is my setup. I'm taking advantage of their recently released UDM (Ubiquiti Dream Machine).  The UDM combines an AP, GB-capable IDS/IPS, CloudKey Management, and 4-port switch + WAN connection.

 - UDM
 - 2x Ubiquiti 8-60W (4 POE ports each) switches
 - 2x Unify AP AC In-wall  (from previous house)
 

The setup is pretty simple after that - two VLANs and two WiFi networks in my case for regular and regular-OT (C4 and IOT gear).  Plus a simple guest wifi portal.  You can assign VLANs based on port quite easily. 

Purchased similar setup with UDM Pro, switches, and AP's. Why do you need VLANs and two different WiFi networks? Not a network guru but interested in why you decided on this format.

[Pounce]

1 hour ago, Sooner said:

Purchased similar setup with UDM Pro, switches, and AP's. Why do you need VLANs and two different WiFi networks? Not a network guru but interested in why you decided on this format.

Security or to separate noise.