Anyone familiar with Luxul?

[rf9000]

All,

 

Really need some help with selecting my networking gear such as switches, midspan, access points, etc. I'm not super familiar with this stuff so bear with me. I need alot of network connected POE and non network connected POE. For network connected POE,  I have about 40 motorized blinds, 12 T4 touchscreens, 6 access points, 9 cameras, Chime doorbell, etc. For non network POE, I have 12-13 Echo Dots. I think that is about it. For my access points, I want them to work more like a hotel would work, where there is just one or two networks that pop up when searching for WIFI. Not a separate connection for each access point. I basically want the main wifi signal to just be amplified or repeated by each access point. So that I have super robust WIFI everywhere. I have been suggested to use Luxul, so I wanted to gather opinions and specific suggestions on what Luxul products would work best. Thanks in advance for the help

[cdcllc]

My dealer installed Luxul gear with my system install during my new home build 4 years ago.  I have an ABR-4500 router, 2 24-port switches, XWC-1000 AP controller, and 3 XAP-1410 APs.  I think if you search this site, you'll find a lot of negative opinions of Luxul gear.  In my 4 years of using the gear - I've found it to be reliable with solid performance.  I've gone through multiple firmware upgrades with only one issue in being able to connect to an AP with an old Mac - my wife's newer Mac didn't have the problem so not sure who's issue it was.  So the good is it's always been there and I can maintain it myself (and I'm comfortable doing that) plus I have a dealer for backup.  The AP controller is good at publishing configs to the AP's and updating firmware on them too, so you aren't logging into them by the one's to make updates.  I really haven't tested whether it's any good at managing the AP to which you are connected.  I can tell you I don't perceive any roaming issues.

The things I don't like about the gear is that while the router's GUI works with Safari, the XWC-1000 does not - I have to use Chrome.  The issue for me isn't using Chrome per se (although I'd prefer not), it's the potential lack of architectural development standards exposed by the issue.  Maybe use of Safari is just lucky on the router, but I doubt it.  Probably two different development teams not quite on the same page.  The other thing I'd like to see on the router is support for an external VPN service.  The router has it's own VPN server for support of access back to your network, but you'd have to utilize a client-based solution if you wanted an external provider.  Finally, it is a dealer based solution - which is great - but it means support documentation is very limited.  Between YouTube's, the documentation that you can find, and the intuitiveness of the applications themselves, I haven't found it to be that big a deal.  But you do feel like you are flying a little blind sometime.  While you can back up your config files, there isn't across the board functionality to restore the configs - some of the equipment has a restore function and some does not.  And, I can always take screen captures and call my dealer if I need serious support.

All-in-all, the gear does what it is supposed to do and I've been happy with it.  If I was replacing all the gear today, I'd probably be doing a serious price vs. feature comparison and an important key would be continued overall support from my dealer.  I'd want to fully understand their position if I "went off the reservation" so to speak.  Plus I'd want to give them a shot at the business.  So the bottom line is while it wouldn't be a "slam dunk" to buy it all again, I can certainly envision several scenarios where I would.

 

[RAV]

Luxul is like an off brand car, awesome when it's new, but as it ages it doesn't seem like such a bargain any longer. Getting it serviced and update is more difficult, and seems like it wears out faster, then there's this quirk that you just sort of live with because while it's annoying you've invested and learned how to work around it. In the end realizing, maybe you should have spent that little bit more and dealt with less hassle in the long run.

[South Africa C4 user]

I’ve been using Luxul at my Beach House for 2 years and have been thoroughly impressed.  I am seriously thinking about moving my main residence over to Luxul.

[eggzlot]

are you going to manage the network or your dealer?  Based on your write up it seems like networking isn't your strong point and you'll need help.

If your dealer likes Luxul and knows it and can configure it properly you'll be fine

some like luxul, some like Araknis, etc.  Others use Mikrotik, Unifi or the C4 suggested Pakedge.  You'll read mostly pros and some cons on all of these systems.

Re: wifi access points what you explained is how it is set up in most traditional residences so it is nothing special.  The layout and materials that made up your house will dictate how many you need and where to install the access points.  If you have a ton of PoE devices it is likely cost effective to get a few midspans and switches vs commercial PoE switches.

Not to be dismissive but when it comes to networks it is the backbone of the system.  If you do not understand most of it, it is likely best to leave it to your dealer and if they are comfortable with brand X you'll be in better shape than trying it on your own.

[rf9000]

5 hours ago, eggzlot said:

are you going to manage the network or your dealer?  Based on your write up it seems like networking isn't your strong point and you'll need help.

If your dealer likes Luxul and knows it and can configure it properly you'll be fine

some like luxul, some like Araknis, etc.  Others use Mikrotik, Unifi or the C4 suggested Pakedge.  You'll read mostly pros and some cons on all of these systems.

Re: wifi access points what you explained is how it is set up in most traditional residences so it is nothing special.  The layout and materials that made up your house will dictate how many you need and where to install the access points.  If you have a ton of PoE devices it is likely cost effective to get a few midspans and switches vs commercial PoE switches.

Not to be dismissive but when it comes to networks it is the backbone of the system.  If you do not understand most of it, it is likely best to leave it to your dealer and if they are comfortable with brand X you'll be in better shape than trying it on your own.

After doing a bit of research, I'm think of doing Arkanis 310 24 port POE switches, three of them optically linked together. The reason for this is Arkanis doesnt offer a 48 port switch with rear ports. I'm going to rack mount so I need rear ports. For Access points, I think I will use one long range Unifi Wifi6 and then have the rest be Unifi Lite Wifi6. I would set them up into a mesh so that automatically the one with the strongest signal is used. I dont think I will use a midspan, hence the three 24 port switches. I have been convinced that there are no delays or issues when linking three switches together. What do you all think?

[ejn1]

17 minutes ago, rf9000 said:

After doing a bit of research, I'm think of doing Arkanis 310 24 port POE switches, three of them optically linked together. The reason for this is Arkanis doesnt offer a 48 port switch with rear ports. I'm going to rack mount so I need rear ports. For Access points, I think I will use one long range Unifi Wifi6 and then have the rest be Unifi Lite Wifi6. I would set them up into a mesh so that automatically the one with the strongest signal is used. I dont think I will use a midspan, hence the three 24 port switches. I have been convinced that there are no delays or issues when linking three switches together. What do you all think?

I'm not a fan of Mesh networks if can be avoided.   What is the router?

[eggzlot]

26 minutes ago, rf9000 said:

After doing a bit of research, I'm think of doing Arkanis 310 24 port POE switches, three of them optically linked together. The reason for this is Arkanis doesnt offer a 48 port switch with rear ports. I'm going to rack mount so I need rear ports. For Access points, I think I will use one long range Unifi Wifi6 and then have the rest be Unifi Lite Wifi6. I would set them up into a mesh so that automatically the one with the strongest signal is used. I dont think I will use a midspan, hence the three 24 port switches. I have been convinced that there are no delays or issues when linking three switches together. What do you all think?

You look at the PoE output?  Are all 24 ports able to give out power at the same time?  Not all PoE switches have power at all time on all ports.  Usually they can output a total amount of power across all ports.  

[rf9000]

15 hours ago, eggzlot said:

You look at the PoE output?  Are all 24 ports able to give out power at the same time?  Not all PoE switches have power at all time on all ports.  Usually they can output a total amount of power across all ports.  

I think it say up to 30 watts per port, and 15 watts per port with all ports simultaneously Why dont you like mesh networks? In my mind i makes the most sense as the strongest signal is always used. I definitely dont want 5 access points to pop up when searching for WIFI. I would prefer one show up that everyone uses to sign into. Is there a way to do this without doing mesh? What is the advantage? This home is 120 feet across. The media room is on one end and the master is on the other end. If the master is the network that lets say my phone automatically signs into, when I'm way on the other side in the media room, I dont want my phone to have to struggle with signal because its trying to sign on to the master?

[eggzlot]

2 hours ago, rf9000 said:

I think it say up to 30 watts per port, and 15 watts per port with all ports simultaneously Why dont you like mesh networks? In my mind i makes the most sense as the strongest signal is always used. I definitely dont want 5 access points to pop up when searching for WIFI. I would prefer one show up that everyone uses to sign into. Is there a way to do this without doing mesh? What is the advantage? This home is 120 feet across. The media room is on one end and the master is on the other end. If the master is the network that lets say my phone automatically signs into, when I'm way on the other side in the media room, I dont want my phone to have to struggle with signal because its trying to sign on to the master?

Is that power enough?

I think your usage of mesh confused the other person.  Mesh products are big box store networking appliances like eero or nest 

[C4 User]

1 minute ago, eggzlot said:

Is that lower enough?

I think your usage of mesh confused the other person.  Mesh products are big box store networking appliances like eero or nest 

Agreed. It sounds like his use of mesh is not accurate. For sure all your radios should be on the same SSID. Just work with network experts to pick a solution that is robust in handing off devices such as phones as you move around your house.

[JSTRONG]

I think he is confusing seamlessly roaming from one wap to the next. I believe he understands the important of actually hard wiring the waps to the network switch. And does not want an actual mesh network 
Yes all waps do that. Well, some not so great. I have great success with unifi and even better success with ruckus

[ejn1]

10 hours ago, eggzlot said:

Is that power enough?

I think your usage of mesh confused the other person.  Mesh products are big box store networking appliances like eero or nest 

You can mesh Unifi current WAPs also so wasnt sure how he meant the term.... @rf9000if you are hard wiring each WAP back to the POE switch this is the correct way to do it...    Also, I would stay with the 4x4 wifi6 APs and not mix in the Lite version.   The cost difference is not worth mix and matching.  

[rf9000]

Also considering Pakedge. How do you all think the Arkanis 310 SW 24 POE compares to the Pakedge SX-24P?

[C Sandlin]

I use LUXUL.  I have the router, controller, 2 WAP's.  I like it.  I never have wireless internet issues in my home.

[mindedc1]

Just some clarification for anyone reading this:

A mesh system is where the APs backhaul their traffic to a central point over one of the wireless channels. These systems generally have mediocre performance. If all you're doing is surfing the web you may not notice the performance is terrible. They also do not expose any setting to resolve issue or optimize the RF environment. If you run into a problem you may not be able to solve it easily.

You can assemble a wifi setup with either seperate dumb APs or with centrally managed APs. Either way you can have a single network that spans all the APs. If you see someone with a unique SSID per AP they are ignorant and didn't set it up properly. You only have to make the SSID (network name) and authentication match between the APs. 

A centrally managed configuration will have several advantages over dumb APs with the same settings. One obviously is a single point to manage all of the APs. Another is that they can automatically tune channel, power, and pre-cache credentials to speed roaming. They also can have more sophisticated security mechanisms. A large part of what you are paying for with a wireless system is the ability of the system to manage the wireless spectrum and adjust for problems and interference sources. 

The example of having multiple APs and wanting the client to connect to the best one is how it should and does work. The client collects a list of APs and their signal strength. If 802.11k is enabled they get some additional performance information, they then select the "best" AP based on some criterial, signal strength is the primary factor. When signal strength degrades, the AP will start looking for the next best AP, it then will re-initiate authentication to the AP. If 802.11r is enabled some of the cached intermediary cryptography is passed between APs to speed roaming and keep the client from dropping traffic while roaming. You don't need a "mesh" system for any of this.

With networking products, market share counts. There are trillions of combinations of client, operating system, interference sources, firmware etc... the more APs and switches a company has in the market the more bugs they will find and fix. I agree with the comment about these "luxury" wifi products being like an off brand car. I wouldn't build my environment off of them. Ubiquiti is a great product and probably the best price point. I would also take a strong look at Ruckus and Aruba InstantON. My team installs something like 20,000 APs per year ( in a three city geography), mostly Aruba, Mist, and Ruckus. We are only one of thousands of networking companies in north america. I suspect that the luxury brands barely sell that number in totality in a quarter. They just don't have the client exposure that an enterprise product does. 

Don't get hung up on the most fancy APs out there. 8x8 APs are useless when you have an indoor environment with a bunch of 2x2 clients. I would shoot for 4x4 at most.

Long range APs have no business in a home, regardless of manufacturer. Those are for a "coverage only" model. You cause problems with sticky clients and poor signal. There are enough clients (chromebooks) that get stuck on 2.4ghz and won't voluntarily roam to 5ghz. A long range AP will cause the issue you describe with the client on the "wrong" AP.

Your ideal system should have

• a physical or virtual controller
• Use a POE connection for backhaul (I would run cat6a for new locations, shielded is a waste of money for APs)
• 4x4 5Ghz radio, 2x2 2.4 ghz radio
• it should do 802.11K and 802.11R
• It should both do auto power and auto channel
• Ability to manupulate all wireless parameters manually to solve issues 
• The manufacturer should have a plan of record for Wifi 6E (6ghz)
• High install base so other people are getting bugs squashed so you don't have to

From a POE perspective, 802.3AF (class 4) will get you 30 watts of power per port. 802.3bt will get you up to 90. Most of the new Wifi 6E radios will require >30 watts to boot. You can decide if you want to pre-purchase the POE ports or wait for 6E to hit fully at the end of the year and replace your switches. The full 90 watts is not nessecarry for the 6E APs, they will typically be using less than 60 watts. The pre-release stuff we've seen is that they will use less than 40, however it still pushes you into .bt power.

You need to look at the total power budget of the switch as well. For example, a 48 port switch will pull 1440 watts for all ports consuming full 802.3 AF power (30 watts). A switch may support 30 watts per port but only be capable of supply 800 watts of power or may require additional power supplies to max out power delivery on all ports. This isn't the huge issue it seems. Often a device will say it needs class 4 (30 watts) but it only pulls 20 watts. A good switch operating system will report actual power consumption and even allow you to tier ports if consumption exceeds supply such that the most vial devices remain powered. Your blinds won't be a constant load so that will aid your power budget. The rest of it will so I would do a power calculation based on the supply requirements and make sure your switches have enough power to deliver it.  I would also recommend going with 48 port switches, the ports are spaced the same as a 24 port and you will use less rack space. Regardless of the port density I would install horizontal cable management. 

If you're linking switches together you can use optics but it's really a waste of money. A 10G DAC cable is generally what one optic costs and you only have to purchase one of them. Most of my installs use 40G and 100G DACs. Performance is the same as the optics, you're buying one part instead of 3. I would also not buy a switch that only has 1G SFP ports, the cost difference is near 0 from a manufacturing perspective. Keep in mind that your WiFi 6 radios with 4x4 can push more than a gig and should use a multirate port (2.4G/5G) to begin with and 1G SFP ports are dumb. A quality switch will "stack" such that all of your switches look like one unit, similar beneifts to centrally managed wifi. The Ubiquiti, Ruckus, and Aruba gear will provide single plane of glass management of the setup.