New Installation

[Control4Savant]

5 hours ago, ekohn00 said:

I'm not a dealer either, I mostly read the forum looking for new ideas for my system. I do admit I spend more time reading stupid stuff vs getting ideas, but it's really not that time consuming.

Sometimes I come across things that are an easy answer for me, but may others might thing people should charge to get that. 

Personally I think a good dealer should be the person doing the audit, as part of a system design. The audit should also include working with the homeowner to identify what they need or want. It's also nice to have options. The big problem might be finding the good dealer and comparing bids.

 

 

 

How much do you think end users would pay for such service? I have been contacted before about doing pre dealership, brand verity consultations… it might be a better alternative to running over someone else’s estimate and something I have consider since I am familiar with several options include DYI…I suppose this is something that can be done via video call. 

[therockhr]

I used to see these quotes and would just shake my head and think how ridiculous they were but if someone wants all those things and wants someone to do it for them well that is probably what it costs. I follow several integrators on instagram and they do some awesome work. huge racks trimmed out really nice and tons of automation. thing is, i just dont see there being that many people a year needing that level of installation. feels like an integrator may do 1 or maybe 2 of those a year even in an affluent area. would be better off trying to do structured wiring can systems, residential big box networking, an EA-1 in a family room home theater and then having some options of either wired audio or wireless depending on budget and maybe some bring your own gear type options as long as they check with you before buying it.

Just my opinion, but it feels like a lot of the quotes people bring on here are for a different clientele than the integrator should have quoted for. Seems they price themselves out a work a lot but maybe they are doing it on purpose depending on their workload.

[RAV]

Lets look at it from OP position.
Two wildly different systems.
And while I didn't review all the numbers, I'll bet they're in line with what is being proposed.

So now what? Which or neither? Something in the middle?
Ultimately, both dealers missed, because it doesn't sound like either one is what the client is ready for.
Did they not ask the right questions, or not listen to the answers, totally missed setting expectations.
I can see the confusion, and the call for help.

Rather than folks here taking a review of a quote position; consult, educate and help a buyer create a list of wants and likes, and an estimated budget.
And not from a sales side, don't try and cut out the local, help them understand, that's a service worth paying for.
Sure, a great dealer will do all that. But they're busy too, and may not see the potential, or pass a project as they're busy.
Then they can talk to a local dealer about what that dealer can supply to fit their needs.

And many on this post did just that, asking questions about their wants, rather than picking at the quotes.

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, Control4Savant said:

How much do you think end users would pay for such service? I have been contacted before about doing pre dealership, brand verity consultations… it might be a better alternative to running over someone else’s estimate and something I have consider since I am familiar with several options include DYI…I suppose this is something that can be done via video call. 

if using the home inspection model depends on the size of the house (or complexity of the install in this case).  but if one were shelling out $25,000, I would think a $300-$500 fee to a agnostic person not trying to sell them a different system would be reasonable.  I don't know your going hourly rate but I cannot see this as taking more than 2-3 hours unless the person has 3 proposals and wants you to review them, compare/contrast, etc.  So maybe for a house up to 3500 sq foot its $XYZ per proposal and for houses up to 6000 sq ft its $ABC per personal and above 6000 sq ft some other $.  Figure the larger the house, the more zones of media, hvac, security cameras, blah blah so adds to the amount of details you need to review and provide your feedback.

[msgreenf]

4 hours ago, eggzlot said:

if using the home inspection model depends on the size of the house (or complexity of the install in this case).  but if one were shelling out $25,000, I would think a $300-$500 fee to a agnostic person not trying to sell them a different system would be reasonable.  I don't know your going hourly rate but I cannot see this as taking more than 2-3 hours unless the person has 3 proposals and wants you to review them, compare/contrast, etc.  So maybe for a house up to 3500 sq foot its $XYZ per proposal and for houses up to 6000 sq ft its $ABC per personal and above 6000 sq ft some other $.  Figure the larger the house, the more zones of media, hvac, security cameras, blah blah so adds to the amount of details you need to review and provide your feedback.

 But why go to someone on the internet and pay them to do a service like this. What credentials do they bring to the table.

[OceanDad]

3 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

What credentials do they bring to the table.

Maybe someone could start a service to check the credentials of the checker.  Say, $300.

 

[msgreenf]

1 minute ago, OceanDad said:

Maybe someone could start a service to check the credentials of the checker.  Say, $300.

 

I’m just saying that there are certifications for home inspectors and trainings.  

You could argue that the AV trainings are “equivalent” and I would agree

[tacos]

but why?  why add another layer of obfuscation? To make a few bucks? 

[msgreenf]

2 minutes ago, tacos said:

but why?  why add another layer of obfuscation? To make a few bucks? 

what is another layer of obfuscation?

[tacos]

6 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

what is another layer of obfuscation?

another random internet person opining on how things ought to be 

[msgreenf]

Just now, tacos said:

another random internet person opining on how things ought to be 

That wasn't my idea...the ask was would people pay for a 3rd party audit/compare designs. I don't think they would...

[Control4Savant]

25 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

 But why go to someone on the internet and pay them to do a service like this. What credentials do they bring to the table.

The person on the internet may be able to have a better reputation than a local dealer concerned about brands and market competition. 

 

6 hours ago, therockhr said:

I used to see these quotes and would just shake my head and think how ridiculous they were but if someone wants all those things and wants someone to do it for them well that is probably what it costs. I follow several integrators on instagram and they do some awesome work. huge racks trimmed out really nice and tons of automation. thing is, i just dont see there being that many people a year needing that level of installation. feels like an integrator may do 1 or maybe 2 of those a year even in an affluent area. would be better off trying to do structured wiring can systems, residential big box networking, an EA-1 in a family room home theater and then having some options of either wired audio or wireless depending on budget and maybe some bring your own gear type options as long as they check with you before buying it.

Just my opinion, but it feels like a lot of the quotes people bring on here are for a different clientele than the integrator should have quoted for. Seems they price themselves out a work a lot but maybe they are doing it on purpose depending on their workload.

You really think most dealers are doing 1-2 full systems a year? They would barley be listed online.  I live in a small market and I have done 3 in the last 4 months. 

[tacos]

are the ranks on the c4 website listed due to volume or is it pay to play?

Referencing diamond vs gold vs platinum etc 

[msgreenf]

Just now, tacos said:

are the ranks on the c4 website listed due to volume or is it pay to play?

Referencing diamond vs gold vs platinum etc 

Sales volume of c4 hardware

[tacos]

14 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

That wasn't my idea...the ask was would people pay for a 3rd party audit/compare designs. I don't think they would...

It is such a niche product that would be hard to scale 

most people who automate just do it I would bet. It is a very small percentage who take the time to post like I did and inquire further

[Control4Savant]

C4 hardware being the key phrase 

[Control4Savant]

1 minute ago, tacos said:

It is such a niche product that would be hard to scale 

most people who automate just do it I would bet. It is a very small percentage who take the time to post like I did and inquire further

Managed HA has been around 20+ years and becomes less niche each passing year. Its 100% about clients expectations and the dealers ability to suggest the correct solutions, design and execute 

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, msgreenf said:

 But why go to someone on the internet and pay them to do a service like this. What credentials do they bring to the table.

Could be a local person

you get drawings from an architect and then hire a contractor to build / manage the vendors. 

cedia has certifications No?

Edited March 5, 2022 by eggzlot

[Control4Savant]

Just now, eggzlot said:

Could be a local person

you get drawings from an architect and then hire a contractor to build / manage the vendors. 

cedia has certifications No?

CEDIA is a paid membership, it’s developing certs but they are like most AV certs are pretty useless and about passing a generalized lesson, especially for residential. PCNA hardly prepares people for proper networking.

[Cyknight]

4 hours ago, tacos said:

are the ranks on the c4 website listed due to volume or is it pay to play?

Referencing diamond vs gold vs platinum etc 

Mostly sales numbers (for gold/platinum). There are some additional requirements, such as number of C4 trained employees, number of employees having done 'other' c4 certification, number of years in business, having a showroom, a few others but... yeah mostly sales.

Epic is a bit more involved, in that there are slightly more stringent requirements and falls outside of the other 'levels' (you can be both).

In and of itself being 'more' than an 'authorized dealer' doesn't mean it's a BETTER (or worse) dealer.

[tacos]

17 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Mostly sales numbers (for gold/platinum). There are some additional requirements, such as number of C4 trained employees, number of employees having done 'other' c4 certification, number of years in business, having a showroom, a few others but... yeah mostly sales.

Epic is a bit more involved, in that there are slightly more stringent requirements and falls outside of the other 'levels' (you can be both).

In and of itself being 'more' than an 'authorized dealer' doesn't mean it's a BETTER (or worse) dealer.

Good to know. 
 

so far I have only contacted the top tiers - will reach out a few others to gauge 

[JSTRONG]

18 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Mostly sales numbers (for gold/platinum). There are some additional requirements, such as number of C4 trained employees, number of employees having done 'other' c4 certification, number of years in business, having a showroom, a few others but... yeah mostly sales.

Epic is a bit more involved, in that there are slightly more stringent requirements and falls outside of the other 'levels' (you can be both).

In and of itself being 'more' than an 'authorized dealer' doesn't mean it's a BETTER (or worse) dealer.

Is Epic a dealer level ? Here we have diamond ad the top level. 

[prabeau]

Automate your automation ......... somebody please wear my pants !   

 

 

[ekohn00]

14 hours ago, tacos said:

Good to know. 
 

so far I have only contacted the top tiers - will reach out a few others to gauge 

I think someone mentioned that they get their rating based on volume.

In my area there's a couple of Diamond and Platinum dealers - but know they're a pain to deal with unless your spending 6 figures all the time.....

My dealer a gold now, but I think when I met him he was only Authorized. It was the Platinum at the time that I dumped.

 

[Control4Savant]

It’s all about sales.. but levels also depend on your market and the volume of dealers in that area.  Those markets tend to have more “jobs” to get but more people trying to do it, so the hardware sales in the area is more evenly spread out with lots of elevated dealers. Smaller major markets may have only a few precious metal dealers… a more rural area my only have an authorized contact.