Hdmi matrix recommendations

[pat.samson.509]

Hi all,

I suspect my current hdmi matrix is starting to fail.

I have a good old monoprice 4x4 with serial control.

I know it is not high end but its been rock solid for 12 years.

They dont seem to sell that model anymore.

 

Anyone got recommendations for a similar product that doesn’t cost a fortune?

4x4 or 4x6

Dont need 4k but could

Be a plus.

 

Thanks

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chopedogg88]

https://jtechdigital.com/product/jtech-4x4-hdbaset-564/

[slip.cougan]

Pulse-Eight neo 4

 

[booch]

If you're open to it, I have a Just Add Power 4K setup and really like it. Beyond the video quality, the ability to add sources and endpoints vs. a 'fixed' matrix is nice and economical, in my case, as I've already expanded twice. They also have options that can send USB and other bells/whistles. 

[MrMunich]

11 hours ago, booch said:

If you're open to it, I have a Just Add Power 4K setup and really like it. Beyond the video quality, the ability to add sources and endpoints vs. a 'fixed' matrix is nice and economical, in my case, as I've already expanded twice. They also have options that can send USB and other bells/whistles. 

What network switch do you use for your Just Add Power devices?

Also, there seem to be tons of different Just Add Power devices available (which is a good thing, once you understand all the moving parts I suppose ).  Did you find any resources helpful is sorting through it all, or just digging through the products on their website?

[TFlury]

You already have a mono price matrix so......

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24180

I also have it in my house because I cant drop the $$$ on an AVPro. I think there is a one way driver for it on a facebook group but I don't know the capabilities it has. I built my own driver for it vs looking for one else where.

 

[booch]

56 minutes ago, MrMunich said:

What network switch do you use for your Just Add Power devices?

Also, there seem to be tons of different Just Add Power devices available (which is a good thing, once you understand all the moving parts I suppose ).  Did you find any resources helpful is sorting through it all, or just digging through the products on their website?

I use the Luxul AMS-2624P, which is pretty common, as only a few switches support their custom firmware. It's nothing fancy but works just fine.

And yeah, they do have several models in each range and tweak them pretty regularly. I self-researched/knew what capabilities I wanted. Basically, there's a few key questions that help narrow it:

• Desired video/audio support, e.g., 4K vs. 1080P
• Any needed bells/whistles. e.g., KVM
• Form factor (I like the individual units)

I'm sure there are plenty of folks on the board that are more knowledgeable than I am and can highlight competing products (I'm not fully aware) and/or are dealers who can help you design a system too.

One thing I do like about JAP specifically (other than them making their software available online, the system's simplicity and not having a single point of failure like one expensive matrix) is that they're prevalent in the commercial space, so if you do expand, there's often great deals on eBay.

[chopedogg88]

I can assist with J+P, I've done several installs. PM me if interested. 

[booch]

2 hours ago, chopedogg88 said:

I can assist with J+P, I've done several installs. PM me if interested. 

Ari, you were who I had in mind when I said ‘more knowledgable,’ ha

[rocky350z]

18 hours ago, TFlury said:

You already have a mono price matrix so......

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24180

I also have it in my house because I cant drop the $$$ on an AVPro. I think there is a one way driver for it on a facebook group but I don't know the capabilities it has. I built my own driver for it vs looking for one else where.

 

I have a AVPro Matrix for sale if you are interested, Full 4K, Atmos. I am willing to accept offers.  Control4 drivers are already built in.

[LiveOakCustom]

On 4/14/2022 at 8:41 AM, rocky350z said:

I have a AVPro Matrix for sale if you are interested, Full 4K, Atmos. I am willing to accept offers.  Control4 drivers are already built in.

You still have this for sale?

Atlona pro 88m going bad.  Any thoughts on replacement for this?

Thanks

[chopedogg88]

AVPro edge are the best. PM me if interested, I'd be happy to get one for you and program it to your system. 

[fleon]

I just yanked out a JAP 5x15 system and replaced it with Binary.   JAP was the worst tech decision I have made in the last 10 years.   Expensive, can't do what they promised, just miserable.   Save a good bit of money and look at alternative MIOPs.....

[chopedogg88]

Curious to understand more as that's a pretty strong position against JAP and most people I've dealt with seem to like it. Can you expand on what it can't do that they claim to do?

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[chopedogg88]

The Binary MOIP stuff is not any less money I might add...

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[fleon]

Sure- and for some context.  I have two different JAP systems, put in by two different dealers.   Different TVs, mostly different sources, etc.  So the common denominator is JAP.

I originally was going to put in an HDMI matrix for one and only one reason - I bought a Kaleidescape and wanted to distribute it throughout my house b/c of the high cost of the player.  However, I wanted to be sure that the quality in my theater room wasn't degraded at all- full 4k, ATMOS, etc in that one room.  I was ok with some reductions in quality in the other rooms.  So - enter dealer #1.  "You should get JAP".  

Before I ever bought the system, my dealer had setup a call with someone from JAP.  I told them what I was looking for- "no problem".  So I got their recommended setup with a passthrough transmitter for my Kaleidescape, a Roku, my Comcast box, and a Bluray player.  It gets installed.  Immediately the Kaleidescape doesn't pass Atmos to the theater anymore.  A month or two of tweaking doesn't fix it.  I get angry.  JAP gets involved again.  I get a new transmitter with beta firmware.  No help. JAP gets directly involved and hard codes EDID codes. Nope.  Also, half of my Samsung TVs don't work with audio correctly.  (Admittedly, this may be because Samsung stopped supporting DTS in a few models, but again, JAP is supposed to be able to correct for this.)   

Eventually, I end up getting another Kaleidescape JUST for the rest of the house and set it to ONLY two-channel audio.  This mostly fixes it. So by this point I have a different dealer.  I put in another system at a different house.  I'm told there's no real alternative to JAP.  So ... another JAP system while the house is begin built. 

At this point I've noticed some very annoying other issues with JAP.  I routinely have to  call and have my driver re-authorized when my C4 system reboots.  Or my JAP switch reboots.  This is fairly constant - it freezes up at least 1-2 times a month.

My JAP switch (Luxel.  for those of you who don't know, JAP only is recommended and works on a couple vendor's switches) dies.  I order another one.  BTW, these aren't cheap compared to most networking switches.  I get it installed and reconfigured.   I hope that my prior problems with the driver might be related to bad hardware!   Nope.  Still same problems.    I eventually get a CA10, hoping that the problem was maybe C4 related?  Nope.

By this point, house #2 has been finished up. JAP system, under entirely new dealer, installed.  Have the same problems with freezing.  Needing to call a dealer.  Getting license reauthenticated.  This time I have one Kaleidescape just set to two channel audio b/c I've learned the JAP just can't handle it.  

Fast forward a year.  I need to add another TV and I'm out of slots on the luxel switch.  The answer is to throw away the luxel and get a 48 port new luxel.   $4000.   Turns out to be good because another luxel switch died at house 1.  So I get to at least re-use the luxel.  

 

At this point, I am lucky, my house is struck by lightning and it burns out a few JAP boxes.  My insurance company replaces the whole system b/c parts aren't available during covid.  At this point, I am certainly not getting another JAP system.  Same issues, two houses, three (by this point) dealers?  No thanks.  I end up with Binary MOIP.  Haven't had a problem since.  My Kaleidescape now passes audio throughout the whole house without being set to two channel.  Haven't had to reboot my luxel switch when it freezes.  No calling to re-authenticate drivers.  There are a couple drawbacks - it doesn't switch instantly - there's about a one  second delay switching sources.   However, soooo much better.  Also?  I can use my Unifi switches.  No more $4000 Luxel switches that die constantly. 

 

So, your mileage may vary.  My mileage was about half a mile to the gallon. 

 

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, fleon said:

Sure- and for some context.  I have two different JAP systems, put in by two different dealers.   Different TVs, mostly different sources, etc.  So the common denominator is JAP.

I originally was going to put in an HDMI matrix for one and only one reason - I bought a Kaleidescape and wanted to distribute it throughout my house b/c of the high cost of the player.  However, I wanted to be sure that the quality in my theater room wasn't degraded at all- full 4k, ATMOS, etc in that one room.  I was ok with some reductions in quality in the other rooms.  So - enter dealer #1.  "You should get JAP".  

Before I ever bought the system, my dealer had setup a call with someone from JAP.  I told them what I was looking for- "no problem".  So I got their recommended setup with a passthrough transmitter for my Kaleidescape, a Roku, my Comcast box, and a Bluray player.  It gets installed.  Immediately the Kaleidescape doesn't pass Atmos to the theater anymore.  A month or two of tweaking doesn't fix it.  I get angry.  JAP gets involved again.  I get a new transmitter with beta firmware.  No help. JAP gets directly involved and hard codes EDID codes. Nope.  Also, half of my Samsung TVs don't work with audio correctly.  (Admittedly, this may be because Samsung stopped supporting DTS in a few models, but again, JAP is supposed to be able to correct for this.)   

Eventually, I end up getting another Kaleidescape JUST for the rest of the house and set it to ONLY two-channel audio.  This mostly fixes it. So by this point I have a different dealer.  I put in another system at a different house.  I'm told there's no real alternative to JAP.  So ... another JAP system while the house is begin built. 

At this point I've noticed some very annoying other issues with JAP.  I routinely have to  call and have my driver re-authorized when my C4 system reboots.  Or my JAP switch reboots.  This is fairly constant - it freezes up at least 1-2 times a month.

My JAP switch (Luxel.  for those of you who don't know, JAP only is recommended and works on a couple vendor's switches) dies.  I order another one.  BTW, these aren't cheap compared to most networking switches.  I get it installed and reconfigured.   I hope that my prior problems with the driver might be related to bad hardware!   Nope.  Still same problems.    I eventually get a CA10, hoping that the problem was maybe C4 related?  Nope.

By this point, house #2 has been finished up. JAP system, under entirely new dealer, installed.  Have the same problems with freezing.  Needing to call a dealer.  Getting license reauthenticated.  This time I have one Kaleidescape just set to two channel audio b/c I've learned the JAP just can't handle it.  

Fast forward a year.  I need to add another TV and I'm out of slots on the luxel switch.  The answer is to throw away the luxel and get a 48 port new luxel.   $4000.   Turns out to be good because another luxel switch died at house 1.  So I get to at least re-use the luxel.  

 

At this point, I am lucky, my house is struck by lightning and it burns out a few JAP boxes.  My insurance company replaces the whole system b/c parts aren't available during covid.  At this point, I am certainly not getting another JAP system.  Same issues, two houses, three (by this point) dealers?  No thanks.  I end up with Binary MOIP.  Haven't had a problem since.  My Kaleidescape now passes audio throughout the whole house without being set to two channel.  Haven't had to reboot my luxel switch when it freezes.  No calling to re-authenticate drivers.  There are a couple drawbacks - it doesn't switch instantly - there's about a one  second delay switching sources.   However, soooo much better.  Also?  I can use my Unifi switches.  No more $4000 Luxel switches that die constantly. 

 

So, your mileage may vary.  My mileage was about half a mile to the gallon. 

 

Ouch. I can say that we have seen the driver de-authorisation a handfull of times in a single system only, but you're talking once or twice a year.

We've used both Luxul and Cisco to no issues, and have numerous systems with atmos...but I don't have any with k-scape.

TBH, I think there's something biting each other there on the sound thing - meaning K-Scape and JAP.

While I understand the 'pain' of having to upgrade a 4 grand network switch, but at the same time, I think your dealer should never have gotten a switch that is 'only' good enough for exactly what you had to begin with. Plus if it was a 'standard' matrix, you'd be replacing evberything.

 

Either way, hope the Binary leaves a better after taste!

[fleon]

Some of that is true- I do think the k-scape is ... Unique.   However the Binary MOIP handled it just fine out of the box.  

I don't agree about the switch issue. One is a neutral reason- the project ended up adding a lot of sources as well, so that's not really anyone's fault.   The other reason I disagree is just personal- the benefits of no one second delay on switching sources is just not worth several thousand dollars to me.   Not to mention the rewiring.....

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, fleon said:

the benefits of no one second delay on switching sources is just not worth several thousand dollars to me

Sure, I'm in no way suggesting not using the binary system, or pushing for JAP. Merely pointing out that the switch size should always be more than required from the start, preferably at least 3-4 spares. Of course if numerous sources were already added, then yes then it 'just is what it is' at that point. While the switch requirements for binary are less, and thus cost less - in the end they will run into the same issue, and if you have a 'standard' matrix switch you'd have run into the same issue.

2 hours ago, fleon said:

However the Binary MOIP handled it just fine out of the box.

Which is great - l'm just pointing out that the issue you were seeing is not something we've ever seen and we've got a fair number of systems with JAP out there, so I'm merely pointing out the possibility that the two may just not work well together. That's something that just seems so occur now and again: We just dealt with a setup where we used the same hdmi audio extractors we always use, on AppleTVs which we come across all the time, on common Samsung TVs we always see ... and for SOME reason after a power outage the AppleTVs stopped sending video through the video switch (a Wyrestorm we don't normally use ourselves) - likely because of some sort of EDID auto configuration issue. With the wyrestorm being the only odd-ball there, one can only (after testing appleTV direct) assume there's some sort of fight with those particular (brand/model) extractors and that particular (brand/model) switch. In this case we but HDMI splitters in between (main out to video switch and secondary to hdmi extractor) and it's been fine ever since. Sure a bit more of a wiring mess, but a lot cheaper than replacing a 16x16 video switch.

 

I can't say what was or was not tried, but what I WOULD have attempted in your setup is to but a break in the EDID/HDCP handling between the Kscape and the JAP transmitter.

 

In the end, all that matters is that it's working for you now.

[Amr]

All depends on how much money you are allocating for this business, the strategy drives tactics, technology will be driven by the budget! The best for less does not exist anymore, actually it never existed!

I personally prefer the good old 8x8 HD-BaseT Matrix or the 8x16 never fails to deliver and the price range is all over the place

[The Good Guy]

On 4/13/2022 at 1:19 PM, TFlury said:

You already have a mono price matrix so......

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24180

I also have it in my house because I cant drop the $$$ on an AVPro. I think there is a one way driver for it on a facebook group but I don't know the capabilities it has. I built my own driver for it vs looking for one else where.

 

Are you having good luck with it? This matrix has been on my watchlist for a while, and I am about to pull the trigger. I believe ZUUM media sells the same one, and they have a free IP driver available: https://www.zuummedia.com/product-p/h8x8h2.htm 

 

[Amr]

7 minutes ago, The Good Guy said:

Are you having good luck with it? This matrix has been on my watchlist for a while, and I am about to pull the trigger. I believe ZUUM media sells the same one, and they have a free IP driver available: https://www.zuummedia.com/product-p/h8x8h2.htm 

 

Am currently running the HDbase T version, 7 HDbaseT receivers + HDMI out, to my surprise it’s working well with serial driver, I think there is also an IP version (serial over IP), the black level is very decent and it delivers 4K! Am running Cat 6 BTW.

[fleon]

On 5/9/2022 at 12:04 PM, Cyknight said:

I can't say what was or was not tried, but what I WOULD have attempted in your setup is to but a break in the EDID/HDCP handling between the Kscape and the JAP transmitter.

 

Yeah, did that.  

My disappointment is that we had reps from JAP involved before even buying the first box, promising this would work.  I've just had way too many issues with JAP to ever recommend it.