Music plays, then blanks out, then plays - Control 4 dealer says its the internet, the internet says its Conrol 4. Help!

[Jib Davidson]

We listen to music all day. Our music choice is SiriusXM, Amazon, Pandora, YouTube Music, and our own Mcintosh File server... The music is routed using our Control 4 to all the rooms in our house. The concept is really great. The problem is that the music, regardless of source, will stop playing for two to five seconds, and then resume. This happens four to ten times per hour. Our Control 4 dealer in Gainesville, FL says it is the internet service. The internet service cannot keep up with the download requirements. We have called Cox, our internet service provider and they have no idea what Control 4 is and offer no solution. Cox maintains that our interest service does not skip and that the buffering requirements are not an issue. So we are stuck. Has anyone encountered this situation? If so, how do we fix it?

[msgreenf]

Change your DNS to Google DNS as step 1 

[EdC4Tx]

Sounds like your dealer needs to find the problem and resolve it. As Msgreenf mentioned changing the DNS to Google is step one, second step should be for your dealer to verify the correct time zone is set on your controller, third IPV6 if its on in your router can cause issues with music streaming or buffering, this should be turned off but you need to log into the router to accomplish this. Lastly if you’re using your internet service provider’s combo router I would recommend getting rid of it. Combo routers cause network issues within a C4 system. I would get a separate router and a separate modem to run your network. I hope this helps but your dealer should already know to try these steps out to resolve your issues. 

[Andrew luecke]

5 hours ago, Jib Davidson said:

We listen to music all day. Our music choice is SiriusXM, Amazon, Pandora, YouTube Music, and our own Mcintosh File server... The music is routed using our Control 4 to all the rooms in our house. The concept is really great. The problem is that the music, regardless of source, will stop playing for two to five seconds, and then resume. This happens four to ten times per hour. Our Control 4 dealer in Gainesville, FL says it is the internet service. The internet service cannot keep up with the download requirements. We have called Cox, our internet service provider and they have no idea what Control 4 is and offer no solution. Cox maintains that our interest service does not skip and that the buffering requirements are not an issue. So we are stuck. Has anyone encountered this situation? If so, how do we fix it?

Could also be internal network.. run 3 terminal windows:

ping -t <IP of router>,

ping -t <IP of primary C4 Controller>

ping -t <reliable Internet IP, such as 8.8.8.8>

 

Make sure your computer is hardwired. This will tell you if your issue is local network or internet.. If the internet drops out for long periods, its ISP.. IF Internet and Router drops out, its your router, if C4 controller does, local lan, or issue on the controller.  If nothing does.. likely configuration, or ISP.

Best to speak to your installer though to run more tests

[cdcllc]

Seems like this should be very "testable".  I think your first step is to run a music stream on a device completely outside of Control4 for a day or 2 (i.e. a phone, pad, computer, etc.) and see if you get the same buffering issue.

[Cinema & Sound]

See tests on previous post. This test only tests the outside isp

[Cyknight]

The issue isn't likely Control4 as such (though it's not impossible) but it can just as easily be local networking or ISP (especially IPS DNS server, which is why the first suggestion is to change the DNS on the controller (if not the whole network) to 8.8.8.8 and/or 8.8.4.4 and/or 1.1.1.1 Of course, for many 'Control4 is to blame' usually means EVERYTHING on the other side of the ISP modem/router.

Poor DNS routing is the most common reason for disconnects for anything streaming, and it's relatively easily fixed by doing the above. Of course, your dealer SHOULD know this already and have done it at setup to begin with. And yes your ISP will correctly state your internet connection is fine: it's failing AFTER you connect to the internet

In most cases routers are out of box set to be the DNS proxy on a network (which is a poor choice if you have a decent DNS server address set) because most ISP use their own DNS servers (because, well data tracking) which are usually poor.

If that doesn't resolve it, ipv6 is probably the next low hanging fruit to take out of the equation. Easy enough to stop at the router. Not a likely culprit to be honest, it takes some pretty bad implementation on both the router and the streaming device to be affected, but a quick fix.

 

Oh and I assume the ISP modem is indeed just a modem or bridged/bridge port, because while often a non-issue, Double NAT can do weird things.

9 hours ago, cdcllc said:

Seems like this should be very "testable".  I think your first step is to run a music stream on a device completely outside of Control4 for a day or 2 (i.e. a phone, pad, computer, etc.) and see if you get the same buffering issue.

Looks good on paper, but it doesn't actually tell you anything.

If it doesn't work, it could still be the network, the ISP, the DNS or heck the C4 controller could theoretically still be a the root cause of it.

If it DOES work, it still could be the C4 controller, router or router settings, double NAT, DNS and yep, still possibly the ISP connection. Heck if it does work, it could simply be because the device you're using buffers more prior to playing

[BY96]

Thank you all for this information. I too have had streaming music dropouts. I just changed my router's DNS to the Google servers as suggested. Looking forward to seeing if the problem goes away. 

[Cyknight]

1 hour ago, BY96 said:

Thank you all for this information. I too have had streaming music dropouts. I just changed my router's DNS to the Google servers as suggested. Looking forward to seeing if the problem goes away. 

If you can, you'll want to set your router to do a static DNS/Forward DNS (on the internal network side) instead of DNS proxy. 'setting router DNS to 8.8.8.8' usually means that the router uses the DNS for it's own handling, and means the router handles DNS (you'll know if your computer/phone DNS server is the same as the router address)

[BY96]

22 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

If you can, you'll want to set your router to do a static DNS/Forward DNS (on the internal network side) instead of DNS proxy. 'setting router DNS to 8.8.8.8' usually means that the router uses the DNS for it's own handling, and means the router handles DNS (you'll know if your computer/phone DNS server is the same as the router address)

Thank you. I am really not familiar with intricate settings on my router, but under Internet Setup, IPv4, I chose "Use these DNS servers" and entered 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4, and 1.1.1.1, for primary, secondary, and tertiary, respectively. I am not sure if that means I have set them as "static DNS," as you suggested, though I have the "Get Automatically from ISP" turned off, which I assume is the dynamic/non-static mode. 

[Amr]

On 11/15/2023 at 11:59 PM, Jib Davidson said:

We listen to music all day. Our music choice is SiriusXM, Amazon, Pandora, YouTube Music, and our own Mcintosh File server... The music is routed using our Control 4 to all the rooms in our house. The concept is really great. The problem is that the music, regardless of source, will stop playing for two to five seconds, and then resume. This happens four to ten times per hour. Our Control 4 dealer in Gainesville, FL says it is the internet service. The internet service cannot keep up with the download requirements. We have called Cox, our internet service provider and they have no idea what Control 4 is and offer no solution. Cox maintains that our interest service does not skip and that the buffering requirements are not an issue. So we are stuck. Has anyone encountered this situation? If so, how do we fix it?

One question, are you experiencing any dropouts when playing your local music that is playing from the Mac File server?

[Don Cohen]

I'm having a similar issue - my wife just reported yesterday that when listening to SiriusXM through Control4 (all devices are wired), on our Sony TV, these long dropouts occurred regularly. She switched to the SiriusXM app on her Android phone, using WiFi, and it was flawless. So it doen't seem to be an internet connection speed problem.

I have an Araknis 310 Router, and found this page, attached, for the one WAN connection we have. I have my computers set to use 8.8.8.8 and so forth, so is this the place in the Router where I should enable Static DNS, and enter those values, or somewhere else?

And where does one find the DNS values for the Controller?

Thanks.

[ekohn00]

3 hours ago, Amr said:

One question, are you experiencing any dropouts when playing your local music that is playing from the Mac File server?

I picked up on this in the original description. If the local server is also having the same dropouts, chances are there's a problem in the network that needs to be resolved. Change the DNS, as stated in other posts, but most likely that is not going to solve the problem if it's local.

Based on the description, what does your network look like? Do you have a lot of wireless in the mix?

[Jib Davidson]

Amr, all our music is streamed. Sadly, we now let Amazon Prime, YouTube, Pandora, and Sirius make the music selections for us. We do enjoy streaming. We don't enjoy the periodic interruptions. You are listening to a great song, and then suddenly there is the two to five-second skip. It is very frustrating. 

[Jib Davidson]

Amr, all our music is streamed. Sadly, we now let Amazon Prime, YouTube, Pandora, and Sirius make the music selections for us. We do enjoy streaming. We don't enjoy the periodic interruptions. You are listening to a great song, and then suddenly there is the two to five-second skip. It is very frustrating. 

[Cyknight]

On 11/16/2023 at 7:51 PM, BY96 said:

Internet Setup, IPv4, I chose "Use these DNS servers"

May or may not, hard to say. Regardless, even the router acting as DNS for the network and using goolge is better than ISP settings

[Don Cohen]

On 11/17/2023 at 6:40 AM, Don Cohen said:

I'm having a similar issue - my wife just reported yesterday that when listening to SiriusXM through Control4 (all devices are wired), on our Sony TV, these long dropouts occurred regularly. She switched to the SiriusXM app on her Android phone, using WiFi, and it was flawless. So it doen't seem to be an internet connection speed problem.

I have an Araknis 310 Router, and found this page, attached, for the one WAN connection we have. I have my computers set to use 8.8.8.8 and so forth, so is this the place in the Router where I should enable Static DNS, and enter those values, or somewhere else?

And where does one find the DNS values for the Controller?

Thanks.

I'm still interested in the answers here, if somebody could address this, to see if one or both changes would fix the dropouts with SiriusXM through Control4.

Thanks!

[Cyknight]

THAT setting page if for router own use: under the LAN settings, there's the option to use proxy or Static DNS to SEND to DHCP devices

[Don Cohen]

5 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

THAT setting page if for router own use: under the LAN settings, there's the option to use proxy or Static DNS to SEND to DHCP devices

Gotcha - found it, and it is already set to Static, with 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4. So that doesn't seem to be the cause for me.

Where do I find the Director's DNS settings, which were also referred to above.

Thanks!

[Don Cohen]

51 minutes ago, Don Cohen said:

Gotcha - found it, and it is already set to Static, with 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4. So that doesn't seem to be the cause for me.

Where do I find the Director's DNS settings, which were also referred to above.

Thanks!

Actually, I just checked in System Manager, and my EA-3 is shown to be using 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4. If this is what is spoken out above, then DNS misconfiguration doesn't explain why I get audio dropouts with SiriusXM via Control4, using all wired connections, but not with the SiriusXM Android Phone app using WiFi.

It's not a big deal, but it would be nice to have this is a viable option.

 

[Andrew luecke]

1 hour ago, Don Cohen said:

Actually, I just checked in System Manager, and my EA-3 is shown to be using 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4. If this is what is spoken out above, then DNS misconfiguration doesn't explain why I get audio dropouts with SiriusXM via Control4, using all wired connections, but not with the SiriusXM Android Phone app using WiFi.

It's not a big deal, but it would be nice to have this is a viable option.

 

If you do the tests I provided, it will help isolate where the issue is

[Don Cohen]

12 minutes ago, Andrew luecke said:

If you do the tests I provided, it will help isolate where the issue is

Thanks!

I'm not sure if this is exactly what you mean, but I opened a CMD box in Windows 10, and ran each of these. No lost packets, the Router and Controller showed 0 milli-seconds delays, 8.8.8.8 showed 20ms min and 32ms max, 26ms average.

Or did you mean to run these simultaneously?

[Andrew luecke]

52 minutes ago, Don Cohen said:

Thanks!

I'm not sure if this is exactly what you mean, but I opened a CMD box in Windows 10, and ran each of these. No lost packets, the Router and Controller showed 0 milli-seconds delays, 8.8.8.8 showed 20ms min and 32ms max, 26ms average.

Or did you mean to run these simultaneously?

Run them simultaneously, and wait until the music drops out

[Don Cohen]

22 minutes ago, Andrew luecke said:

Run them simultaneously, and wait until the music drops out

PInging the Router and Controller never showed any ping time-outs throughout the testing.

I saw rare time-outs on the ping to 8.8.8.8, but there was no interruption in the sound when these occurred. Maybe 3 or 4 over a 5-10 minute period or more, and never more than 1 at a time. The final stats showed 0% packet loss, Average time 26ms.

There were quite a few audio pauses during the 10 or so minutes of testing, seemingly at a random interval, up to 3 to 7 seconds, and during these pauses, I didn't see any time-outs or changes in any of the windows. Time was unchanged during these pauses.

How do you interpret this?

[ekohn00]

4 hours ago, Don Cohen said:

PInging the Router and Controller never showed any ping time-outs throughout the testing.

I saw rare time-outs on the ping to 8.8.8.8, but there was no interruption in the sound when these occurred. Maybe 3 or 4 over a 5-10 minute period or more, and never more than 1 at a time. The final stats showed 0% packet loss, Average time 26ms.

There were quite a few audio pauses during the 10 or so minutes of testing, seemingly at a random interval, up to 3 to 7 seconds, and during these pauses, I didn't see any time-outs or changes in any of the windows. Time was unchanged during these pauses.

How do you interpret this?

probably not a big deal, DNS is cached locally.