Shoe Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 5 hours ago, BDavisNJ said: There seems to be a misconception that Composer HE serves under-capitalized DIYers who are buying castoff items on eBay. 35 minutes ago, Dueport said: your points about the perceptions of HE and value to the platform and customers are well said and dead on I think. I'm completely unaware of any of this misconception or perspective about HE. Anyone DIY'ing from Ebay is simply jailbreaking and using Pro and not HE. There exists no attitude about HE in this way on this forum and it's been around a good long time. This is classic FUD to say there is some problem. I think we have some confused new users. The majority of C4 owers do not want to mess with HE and a majority of owners probably don't even know it exists. The owners that want to use HE are a small group and can actually be rightfully classified at DIY... because that's what they are doing, literally. Depending on dealer they either don't want you messing up the system because they don't want a bunch of support problems or they want you to pay them to properly tweak the system. I'd wager the active licensed users of HE are less than 1% of C4 owners. Licensed owners is probably somewhere below 10% if I had to guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dueport Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 5 hours ago, BDavisNJ said: The reality is that the high income, HNW / UHNW client base that can afford professional grade home automation systems often have common traits of impatience, a desire for operational control, and privacy. I have zero interest in being made dependent on a contractor's W2 employee when I want to make a minor adjustment to the environment of my own home. Yes, there are times when I may elect to delegate. But if a system forces me to wait or makes me hostage to someone else's schedule, that system will be in the rubbish bin -- fast. Composer HE is a competitive advantage for C4 over Crestron and Savant. Composer HE has provided a real-life introduction to programming for my kids and provided pride of ownership for me. I was referring primarily to these points. I agree HE is limited in audience but it is also an important competitive advantage - it was part of why we went with C4 over competitors for the reasons quoted above. Edited February 5 by Dueport South Africa C4 user 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oasisferine Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Hello, Any update as to when Composer HE bug fix will be available for new OS as last update last week was that its under final testing and role out by end last week since then no update, will we get it this week ? Can anyone update? it really is very frustrating as my dealer updated my system from HC800/250 to EA5 with latest OS last week and since i have not been able to use composer, i am suppose to configure apple home kit to test a driver which is on a 7 day trial and also need to back up my system. What happens if there is a power surge and system files get corrupted and I can’t restore from back up as I am unable to do one, will C4 pay for reprogramming ? My dealer spent more than 20hrs to update system drivers etc with new OS. if C4 takes so long to fix such bug should they not then roll back OS so other customers don’t face same issue till issue is fixed, I rather be on previous OS with composer HE working and update to latest when HE has no bugs, consequences of such a bug in OS which takes weeks to fix can be fairly big for clients and takes away C4 from a reliable and robust OS to sometimes can be tricky as testing before roll out is questionable. In future I will definitely not update to latest OS immd and wait long enough to be sure till no one reports issues. This has definitely affected for me my confidence on c4 new OS updates. Anyhow I have a C4 system now and I am stuck so can not do anything about reliability factors now as I rolled the dice already but I hope c4 will roll out the fix quicker and in future test more thoroughly before rollout. Imagine if Apple made a new OS update and important functionality like taking backup or access to contacts was not possible, the world would go ape shit and apple stock would tumble as everyone and there mother willl question Apple reliability with new OS. Let’s hope it never happens with Apple and this is the last one with C4 if C4 wants to be considered as a reliable tech provider. i have c4 in my parents house and also some friends have it and no doubt I will advise them never to update to new OS immd as C4 with new updates can be unreliable, so wait and how that will effect c4 on cleints future friends and family recomendation time will tell. so after this long msg taking out my frustration, update from c4 with an actual date or time line will be appreciated ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oasisferine Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Thanks for reply, do you have a time line on new build....or should we start to figure out Plan B = how to roll back from the last OS. In my case i will have to revert back to last backup OS 2.xx and start all over again.....another 20hrs of programing cost of dealer...... Ture fact = extra bucks for dealer and client out of pocket to get to stable OS.....clients cant keep waiting open ended.... For whats its worth....(may be nothing) my point of view is......if OS is so buggy that it needs so many builds to fix bugs , may be C4 is better off working on plan B to send a fix to clients for roll back from OS to last OS without reprograming and C4 buys more time so they can do proper testing of OS before relaunch... ...............................no hurry to get new OS to market...most importnat should be it needs to have basic functionality for clients forget about new bells and whistles.... Never again will i upgrade latest OS...as clearly C4 does not have proper quality and testing before roll outs and they seem to do it on the fly...reminds me of another Tech company....which launched aircraft and ...went for quick bucks and launched aircraft without proper quality checks....and risked repuation which is still under question.... no company is big enough to play with quality and expectr to get away with it...it comes and bites back.....Frustrated... frustrated...did not spend all that money to state my frustration on forum..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I don't understand how you would have to roll back to os 2. You couldn't go directly from 2.10.6 to 3.4.1. That's imposter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 6 minutes ago, Vish said: Thanks for reply, do you have a time line on new build....or should we start to figure out how to roll back from the last OS. In my case i will have to revert back to last back to OS 2.xx and then start all over again.....another 20hrs of programing cost for dealer......extra bucks for dealer and client out of pocket to get to stable OS..... Your dealer should have made a backup around 3.3 during the update process. No time line was mentioned, that's the whole post. Couple weeks would be plausible to fix, restart internal testing, and then beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Not only that, it’s your dealers responsibility, not C4’s. Take up your issues with them. charging 20 hours labor for updating drivers seems a bit sketchy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oasisferine Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, msgreenf said: I don't understand how you would have to roll back to os 2. You couldn't go directly from 2.10.6 to 3.4.1. That's imposter hmmm....yes you are 100% spot on....my mistake as i am not so techincal but he did upgrade to i think in 2 or 3 OS upgrades...one after the other...i just hope he did back up upon ecah upgarde.... Question > I am not so technical.....i assume roll back will take away all programing done since....roll back will be staright fowrad delete current OS and programing and reload old back up or is it possible to roll back to OS without lossing programing...not sure may be techical impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oasisferine Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 29 minutes ago, lippavisual said: Not only that, it’s your dealers responsibility, not C4’s. Take up your issues with them. charging 20 hours labor for updating drivers seems a bit sketchy to me. Ah okay so Its my dealers responsisblity to ensure that C4 OS has no bugs.......and it will work with composer HE... Just to clarify its not 20hrs for upgrade its time spent for upgrade and also programing done since upgrade which i suppose i will loosee and will have to redo all again in rolll back or is it possible to rollback and keep programing.... anyway its not about time taken for programing its about loosing all that work and redoing it....if there is a way to keep the programing and roll back pls. let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil12011 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 37 minutes ago, lippavisual said: Not only that, it’s your dealers responsibility, not C4’s. Take up your issues with them. charging 20 hours labor for updating drivers seems a bit sketchy to me. His dealer did make backups, several in fact. This project was way more than just updating drivers, and just about everything that can go wrong did, coupled with a pretty substantial time zone difference, it wasn't an easy lift. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil12011 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 minutes ago, Vish said: Ah okay so Its my dealers responsisblity to ensure that C4 OS has no bugs.......and it will work with composer HE... Just to clarify its not 20hrs for upgrade its time spent for upgrade and also programing done since upgrade which i suppose i will loosee and will have to redo all again in rolll back or is it possible to rollback and keep programing.... anyway its not about time taken for programing its about loosing all that work and redoing it....if there is a way to keep the programing and roll back pls. let me know. @Vish I wouldn't have to redo the programming sir. I made backups on every revision after 2.10.6 all the way to 3.4.1. Been doing this a long time, and I try my best to make sure that nothing needs to be re-done. I can't fix composer HE, but I can make sure everything that I've done up until this point is secure, which it is. Andrew luecke, msgreenf and Dueport 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 A roll back is just that. A roll back to the state as of the backup neil12011 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oasisferine Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 3 minutes ago, neil12011 said: His dealer did make backups, several in fact. This project was way more than just updating drivers, and just about everything that can go wrong did, coupled with a pretty substantial time zone difference, it wasn't an easy lift. Yes yes…dealer did an awesome job….no complain there…..:-) Dueport and neil12011 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil12011 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, msgreenf said: I don't understand how you would have to roll back to os 2. You couldn't go directly from 2.10.6 to 3.4.1. That's imposter 1 hour ago, RAV said: Your dealer should have made a backup around 3.3 during the update process. No time line was mentioned, that's the whole post. Couple weeks would be plausible to fix, restart internal testing, and then beta. Went from 2.10.6 to 3.0 to 3.1 to 3.3 to 3.4.1 just to make sure everything took (Going from HC800 to EA5) Made backups along the way of each one. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oasisferine Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Okay got all calcifications I need so for me to take a decision :- Plan A wait fit c4 for couple of weeks and if not Plan B ground all aircraft’s and roll back and re inspection of critical points before flying in new OS again….guess worst case will need to re do new programming again…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oasisferine Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 6 minutes ago, neil12011 said: Went from 2.10.6 to 3.0 to 3.1 to 3.3 to 3.4.1 just to make sure everything took (Going from HC800 to EA5) Made backups along the way of each one. Perfect so worst case I will end up with 3.3 and will have to redo all changes done since then atleast drivers are now binded to EA5…. again this is not a complain on my dealer, he did a fab job, and went above and beyond call of duty……10 on 10 I just want to fly with the new system and unfortunately I am still grounded…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil12011 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 3 minutes ago, Vish said: Okay got all calcifications I need so for me to take a decision :- Plan A wait fit c4 for couple of weeks and if not Plan B ground all aircraft’s and roll back and re inspection of critical points before flying in new OS again….guess worst case will need to re do new programming again…. Honestly @Vish, it was a one-off scenario. I can't recall a time recently when Composer HE had a bug that made it inoperable for a time. This is the first instance I've seen, and it isn't the norm. Yes there are always risks on the latest OS, but this is not a regular occurrence, so I wouldn't worry too much, just an inconvenience, albeit a pretty significant one for clients. Dueport 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oasisferine Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 minutes ago, neil12011 said: Honestly @Vish, it was a one-off scenario. I can't recall a time recently when Composer HE had a bug that made it inoperable for a time. This is the first instance I've seen, and it isn't the norm. Yes there are always risks on the latest OS, but this is not a regular occurrence, so I wouldn't worry too much, just an inconvenience, albeit a pretty significant one for clients. Murphys law neil12011 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil12011 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 6 minutes ago, Vish said: Murphys law Yessir, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 48 minutes ago, neil12011 said: His dealer did make backups, several in fact. This project was way more than just updating drivers, and just about everything that can go wrong did, coupled with a pretty substantial time zone difference, it wasn't an easy lift. No knock on you Neil, I’m sure you did everything right. Example of customer relaying information that they don’t have or understand. neil12011 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darin, PM C4 CX Platform Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 A couple additional issues surfaced during the beta, so those are being addressed now with a new HE build that should go out for testing soon. We'll be rolling the HE update out once testing and validation pass successfully. We have also identified the gap in testing that allowed this to slip out in an unfunctional state and have updated our testing/release process for HE to ensure this shouldn't happen again in the future. Shoe, msgreenf, RyanE and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Points for transparency and owning the miss. What we all like to see in software, but rarely get in public. Well done. BY96 and Dueport 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darin, PM C4 CX Platform Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Composer HE is expected to release on 2/23/2024, if no additional critical issues are found. If any of you would like early access then DM me and I can get you a copy of the beta version for use/testing. ziggy, Gary Leeds UK, Dueport and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggy Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 Finally, cab u send me beta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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