C4junkie

No your the crazy one for saying you are leaving, being banned, changing names and coming back but trying to pretend you aren't who you are.

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Right on!  The problem is with the worldwide Illuminati and the HDMI cartel that are out to get us

Not that I could find online.  But, Just look on Google before Kevin L. bans them (google).  Thats how I get my information, as I am just a end user, as my profile says.  I have no knowledge of inner workings at Control4 or now Snap AV?  Or 4 Snap?  or Snap 4 Control?

Kevin L, ever heard of the word Petty?
- Maybe they shouldn't spread the news so it's easy to find on google...maybe you should ban google?  Thats probably the best move.  Yeah, ban Google...SMH.
 

Don't be so harsh, it was pretty much already all over town....

good way to get banned

Sounds like it is just going to be a GUI overhaul.  More customization and 4K GUI.
Cannot have any HC250's in the project to use 3.0 - None, Zero.
HC800 with work but the Navigator will not produce any GUI or image - 
be out this month - a week or two.
 
Bye!

Man, I just got caught up on this monster... Have to say, there are some great points (from both perspectives) if perhaps over-dramatized a bit. 🙂
But, I really think knowitall and blub made some points worth repeating. 
The statement above is *mostly* the cold harsh truth, except for one glaring omission to choppedogg88's point later in the thread... They still own the best PRODUCT for merging everything together into one user friendly system. So, while the "business" is currently running away from them. The PRODUCT needs to be better marketed and flipped to at least some level of more mass-market adoption in order for any company in the space to succeed. I have had my system for about 3 years now... My friends and family are constantly blown away with the features it offers, simplicity, etc. But, in 3 whole years (and we have a LOT of company), not a single person we have ever had in our home has heard of Control4 or even knows what it is. That is a MASSIVE problem. I don't necessarily agree that IoT and DIY are exclusively the future, because i think the unique combo of hardware and software is what makes the system more stable than others. But, the efforts on marketing need to be quadrupled at a minimum. 
We can argue all day long about whether the dealer model will continue to exist or not, but both sides are speculating. The truth is... there is (and will continue to be) a need for both. The dealers will always have a small market of people that either a. don't want to deal with any of the headaches and just want stuff to work 24/7 or b. Have more money than they know what to do with and just want the latest and greatest anything. Neither of those are going away. But, as a dealer, if you don't want the market to expand to the other 98% who are literally clamoring for better solutions across all their devices, I simply dont know what to tell ya? But, i do know... if you continue to wait and try to force the old model, eventually you will become Blockbuster and the big boys will squash you like a bug once their products catch up and pass you. I went through 3 different local companies before finding this forum (and thereby un-earthing the beauty of the remote dealer). I can't believe that is a coincidence? The service SUCKS out in the local markets. And, the profits and revenue show it. Simple as that. Of course, none of you guys on here emulate that... Because, clearly you care about the end product and the service to customers. That's why you're here is to further service the community. And, we truly do appreciate it. 
So, what's the answer? How do I fix it if I am Snap?
Yes, lower prices on hardware, but sustain it with subscription tiers. Basic systems have basic hardware and free software. And, it goes up from there. Cut dealers in on the subscription tiers. Bonuses if x% of your customer base are level 3, for example. Same thing for consumer access. Different tiers have different levels of access. 
But, the BIGGER idea (i think) is two-fold. 1. Embrace the model you guys have basically built on here! I guarantee that every dealer would rather work out of their home remotely if they could sustain enough business doing it? The only way that happens is to increase customer volume with better (more attractive) pricing. Those local companies i mentioned wouldn't even show up for less than 150 bucks. Then, each request was + + +. I was lucky to get out of just about anything without it being 300 or more. There should be an ARMY of remote dealers on Control4.com right now. But instead, it's an antiquated 1994 system of locating a local guy and leaving a voicemail, hoping he even calls you back. It's the complete opposite of what a "technology" company should be. If everyone is compensated to get MORE users instead of worrying about stealing ones from other dealers... everyone wins. 2. Focus less on the hardware side and MORE on this notion of being the "glue" that binds everyone together. Google is pissing on Amazon, who is pissing on Apple. Sonos is just off on their own little planet. Etc. etc. Consumers don't give a DAMN about the politics and revenue implications, they just want their stuff to work with other devices as well as humanly possible. C4 does that REALLY well, but back to my point earlier... nobody knows who the eff they are? Focus on being THE solution, and make it your #1 priority. 
Bottom line, none of us know the answer as to what's planned. But, I can promise you NOBODY buys another company (especially a fledgling one) to just do "more of the same." Frankly, I'm shocked that notion has been repeatedly mentioned in this thread. You guys are much smarter than that! I spent the last 17 years in the video game industry... Imagine how hard it was to convince publishing executives to give away games on mobile devices for free. But, it was a very similar migration of thought. Sure, for every candy crush there are 600 failures, but C4 is a winner if they put the right pieces in place, and make the right chess moves.
Whatever it is... I hope Snap will move QUICKLY to clearly define and roll out a 1, 3, and 5 year plan. If they don't, sadly the bleeding will just continue.
Sorry for the long-winded rant. But, I'm passionate about the topic. 🙂
 

Many, and I'll go as far as to say most, Control4 dealers don't care about service after the install... Their focus is on installs, plain and simple...
I would love to open up a new business doing just Control4 service and programming to consumers or as a contractor for these dealers that simply don't have the staff to do installs and service... Could make a fortune... 

Calling an Apple store a "compute repair shop" isn't really accurate.  They are retail locations that also do repairs as a means of getting you to come in and buy more stuff.  Show me a windows based computer repair store, don't quote GeekSquad...  They are few and far between, most are mom and pop shops and most don't make it more then several years.
There are a TON of people who fix their own furniture and appliances, to the tune of millions. I've repairs my oven main circuit board, my washer and dryer on several occasions, as well as replaced capacitors in my TV and central AC unit. I have saved thousands of dollars at this point by doing these easy repairs.  Fixing a washer/dryer isn't rocket science and there are lots of resources to help you do so as well as get you parts.  People have been working on their own vehicles since they were first made... Yes some folks hire this work out, many do not because they can't afford to do so, others don't because they enjoy it.
In the residential AV / integration world "Pro" does not mean you know what your doing or that you are knowledgeable.  You are just someone who opened a business, thats it.  I live in a very saturated and large market, the vast majority of "Pro" residential AV / integrator I've meet or personally know aren't exactly the folks I would want designing or working on my stuff.  The PRO residential segment is not as refined or educated as the real PRO AV market where the majority of folks have technical degrees in engineering, electronics, computers, etc. 
Just to clarify, I do believe there are excellent professionals out there who do know the art of their business. Do I believe its the majority, nope at least not in my experience. YMMV  
 
 

Can some clean it or it’s a dead end? Hopefully we will not end up taken totally by Chinese spammers ... It’s fuc*n annoying, but who cares ...

Fight the worldwide hdmi conspiracy cartel
fight the good fight my friend

Ok wap

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Hey now we have some questions.  
1. So for "years" you've been telling us the dealer only model will die.  I'll give you that as a fact.  other facts...every single one of those years Control4 business has grown at reasonable rates, and rates comparable to other technology companies.  My dealer's revenue is tracking to be up 40-50% this year to the point where we have conversations about sustainable growth and are we growing to quickly.  Just because you say the dealer model is going to kill everything over and over, that doesn't make it a fact. 
2. I've personally been involved in several scenarios where someone from Control4 corporate has engaged with an end user directly and something has changed because of it.  I've seen bugs fixed, drivers edited, features added, etc.  This one is pointless to argue because you don't feel personally heard which I get is frustrating but that doesn't mean Control4 never listens.  
3. How the hell do you know what "most" dealers are doing?  I'd imagine you've interacted with less than .01% of them.   Again just because you say something doesn't make it a fact.  There is a very active community of dealers constantly working with Control4 on testing, suggestions, ideas.  Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  
4/5. I'm not going down the composer rabbit hole, or the reasons for the acquisition.  It's pointless and I don't have the energy. 

I think you are confusing best product with best company...they are 2 very different things!

If C4 is the best HA system available they wouldn't have had such a hard time to sell the company - so for anyone of those alleged 70 interested parties it obviously wasn't the best choice...

Since I don't have Pro what are the features within Pro which can be hazardous in customer hand?

Control4 went public because the primary investors wanted their money/investment back - they only choice was an IPO at the time

Its interesting that 70 other suitors looked at Control4 and not a single one even put in a low ball bid, this is somewhat telling. 
SnapAV and Control4 will be an interesting synergy and one I think has to be kept completely separate entities as they each sell to very different segments.  SnapAV is the "cheap" brand while C4 is the luxury brand.  Homeowners in the ultra high end market aren't putting in SnapAV speakers or networking gear. 
Control4 should have just stuck to what it knew and stayed private, instead they though they could grow by going public but not adapting.  To grow they needed to get product prices down or offer a line of products that were cheaper and diy.  This goes against what they want to do, which is a perfectly good choice, BUT, its also a growth limiting factor.
 

Control4 sold itsself because:

There was not the expected revenue and growth

Major shareholders wanting to cash in and they increased the pressure after stock price plummeted and Neo acquisition will cost resources.

Why did Control4s reven and growth not meet expectations?


My 2c:

1 - the dealer only model does not attract new customers. It is limiting Control4 growth - I am sure of that. It's the major thing holding Control4 back.

2 - Entry costs are still high. HW needs to be cheaper and 4sight needs to be mandatory, maybe in different levels between 50 and 200$ per year depending on project sizes

3 - Lack of innovation. OS3 took ages and Control4 still doesn't support media management via web, support of TV series and ZigBee 3 is nowhere be seen...and I am not even talking about voice recognition.....

Dealers should realize that DiY will likely make them more money in the end as it lowers the entry cost and if systems get larger they are back in the game.


So let's see what SnapAV makes out of it....

The trouble is now days is that people want convenience and cheap. We all remember when apple 1st launched the Ipod and every music insider just laughed it off. All saying it would never take off because people will not like or accept compressed music!!!!! We all know the answer. I also see it now days to a certain extent with home cinema. The amount of soundbars replacing the full AV experience is ridiculous. Same with blueray players, Most people just want to stream. 
The world is changing and while DIY systems will not provide the same high end experience it will still work and thats what people care about. For systems like C4 to survive they need to adapt and make it available to a wider audience. We might not like it but i'm afraid we are a dying breed.

There are 3 sides to every story

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The guy set wrote the pieces and analysts. He gets paid to analyze. Seems like that's what he did

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Or is liable to be sued for insider trading violations. 😂
 
But heya Wapp! Good to see you can still turn random facts and speculations into what you seem to believe is a coherent argument for something completely unrelated.
You know, you'd do great on Ancient Aliens.

Wapp returns!!

Keep drinking that Koolaid if it helps you sleep...