forum Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 It's my understanding Control4 reverse engineered Sonos to provide the driver all along. They gambled with our money and lost. Sonos is doing the right thing and releasing an endorsed API. This clears up integration expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 So what actually happened in those C4<>Sonos negotiations over the future of this driver? What are the facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 It's my understanding Control4 reverse engineered Sonos to provide the driver all along. They gambled with our money and lost. Sonos is doing the right thing and releasing an endorsed API. This clears up integration expectations. Extra Vegetables did the reverse engineering of the API. Control4 the bought EV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 13 minutes ago, forum said: It's my understanding Control4 reverse engineered Sonos to provide the driver all along. They gambled with our money and lost. Sonos is doing the right thing and releasing an endorsed API. This clears up integration expectations. Sure but sometimes reverse engineering is needed to break new ground.... Once that ground is broken it's just "not cricket" or to "play ball" to go back. That's anti-human endeavour and cannot be forgiven. Who does that? If mankind thought like that there would be no space exploration. No man would have ever walked on the moon..no future Mars trips... No Apple Computer.. No Internet... No Sonos in the first place even... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 11 minutes ago, SMHarman said: Extra Vegetables did the reverse engineering of the API. Control4 the bought EV. That is correct. And it was a major transaction as well at the time as I recall.. and trumpeted at the time as "ground breaking"..Indeed it was...because suddenly it opened Control4 up into a potential bigger and better world of driver integration..after the C4 appp store flop...Thats what I recall.. could be wrong /..? Anyway wasn't The Sonos Driver the principle reason and driver concerned for the EV purchase as I recall.. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Someone needs to come clean with the facts. And cut all the marketing speak.. What actually happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forum Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 If a product is abandoned, I agree someone might come along and reverse engineer it, and continue where it left off. Whats seems to have happened here is Control4 hacked a product, and the door was closed on them. Happens all the time to companies leveraging another product. I also think Shairbridge is a fork from an abandoned open source linux project. (Prove me wrong?) I've been recently reading about static noise problems when using Shairbridge, and this is classic Linux behavior and Linux drivers that use pulse audio. It took me days to figure out and fix the static sound in Ubuntu using Pulse Audio and HDMI etc. I can imagine, Control4 will also chase the same tail I did years ago fixing the static. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 ^ No Sharman is correct. EV reverse engineered it. And i dont think it was "a hack" ? Sonos left their API open at the time..did they not ///? But in any case you've missed the point. Sure close the door... by all means (if thats the business agenda)... just dont try changing the history of the better development behind that door... once its happened (for the better).... it's happened... ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 5, 2016 Author Share Posted November 5, 2016 Someone needs to come clean with the facts. And cut all the marketing speak.. What actually happened? What facts are missing? It's very clear. Control4 was using an unofficial api. Now to be a partner they have to use the official api. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Neither C4 or EV reverse engineered anything. That was done by the Sonos community at large. What did C4 do? Nothing, Sonos IS now playing nice. For years people asked for an API and Sonos ignored them, now they finally caved and decided to develop one. Give it time, it will open up more and improve. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saluki2007 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 On 11/4/2016 at 2:21 PM, msgreenf said: If Spotify is your service of choice, have you considered a Chromecast Audio right into a C4 Matrix? https://support.spotify.com/us/using_spotify/play_on_stereo_tv_car/chromecast-steps-and-setup/ If I went this route, I would still have to use the C4 app to control which zones it was playing in, correct? This would just allow me to use the Spotify app as the "remote". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 8 minutes ago, saluki2007 said: If I went this route, I would still have to use the C4 app to control which zones it was playing in, correct? This would just allow me to use the Spotify app as the "remote". yes, what you could also do, depending on the amp is have it power on a zone on auto sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 7, 2016 Author Share Posted November 7, 2016 not to mention, if you are only using a Sonos for Spotify, Chromecast audio is way more affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Looks like Spotify have got away with not having to use the Sonos App in the new Sonos software update (in beta) "community request, Spotify Direct Control. With this update, you’ll be able to tell Sonos what to play right from within your Spotify app" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 Looks like Spotify have got away with not having to use the Sonos App in the new Sonos software update (in beta) "community request, Spotify Direct Control. With this update, you’ll be able to tell Sonos what to play right from within your Spotify app" Yes. That was posted already Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 On 11/4/2016 at 9:44 PM, wappinghigh said: Now Sonos thought it was OK to upset all their co-Control4 customers as well.?? Anyway Sonos is the one with the real problem now.. Now they lose out to the 100 pound Gorilla. They will be the one with the ongoing headache after the hangover....Dumb Sonos boxes here we come.. Rock on Control4 Wapp, Your very well intentioned and I think many people understand your frustrations. However Sonos was not trying to upset Control4, Crestron, or any other automation system user, nor have they lost out on a 100 pound Gorilla. You could add up all the automation users affected by this and it wouldn't add up to 1% of the Sonos market. 99% of consumers have no clue what Sonos did and don't care as it doesn't affect them at all. On top of that Sonos is still a very viable option within Control4, I've now been using the new driver since its release and I've really only come up with one complaint and its no ones fault as its a limitation because I'm using a matrix amp. The Sonos app really is far superior to what we had in control4, even at its best. Currently I go into the Sonos app choose a song and boom my control4 system fires up and I get music. The only thing I need to switch to the app for is volume as my sonos are set to line-out level "fixed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 33 minutes ago, cdepaola said: You could add up all the automation users affected by this and it wouldn't add up to 1% of the Sonos market. 99% of consumers have no clue what Sonos did and don't care It's apparently actually about 2% to my surprise, but still the point stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, Cyknight said: It's apparently actually about 2% to my surprise, but still the point stands. Interesting indeed, where is that info from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istreich Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 3 hours ago, cdepaola said: Wapp, Your very well intentioned and I think many people understand your frustrations. However Sonos was not trying to upset Control4, Crestron, or any other automation system user, nor have they lost out on a 100 pound Gorilla. You could add up all the automation users affected by this and it wouldn't add up to 1% of the Sonos market. 99% of consumers have no clue what Sonos did and don't care as it doesn't affect them at all. On top of that Sonos is still a very viable option within Control4, I've now been using the new driver since its release and I've really only come up with one complaint and its no ones fault as its a limitation because I'm using a matrix amp. The Sonos app really is far superior to what we had in control4, even at its best. Currently I go into the Sonos app choose a song and boom my control4 system fires up and I get music. The only thing I need to switch to the app for is volume as my sonos are set to line-out level "fixed". cdepaola, is there a way to "fire up" the control4 system when you go in the Sonos app? Right now, I first go into Control4, pick room and click listen then go to Sonos to control it. It is ok. But it would be great if opening my sonos app and playing Deezer (for ex) would automatically trigger a series of actions on my Control4 system. In my specific case, I have turned on my multizone amps (using Wattbox relay in Control4 for that). should I use IFFFT? I also use a Matrix switch and I may have to go in Control4 to decide which zone to play in but I would pick one by default (kitchen) that would be triggered by the sonos app. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 10 minutes ago, istreich said: cdepaola, is there a way to "fire up" the control4 system when you go in the Sonos app? Right now, I first go into Control4, pick room and click listen then go to Sonos to control it. It is ok. But it would be great if opening my sonos app and playing Deezer (for ex) would automatically trigger a series of actions on my Control4 system. In my specific case, I have turned on my multizone amps (using Wattbox relay in Control4 for that). should I use IFFFT? I also use a Matrix switch and I may have to go in Control4 to decide which zone to play in but I would pick one by default (kitchen) that would be triggered by the sonos app. Thanks. There is an option in the Sonos driver to set Auto Power Room... We listen to music typically in three different rooms, so I set each of my Sonos Connects to one of those rooms as the Auto Power Room. No other programing or wizardry needed, just works like a charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istreich Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Very cool! Did not know that... Two questions: can it be done on C4HE or does it need full composer? Second, can I trigger other actions such as turning my amps on? Thanks a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 12 hours ago, cdepaola said: where is that info from? Sonos presentation a few months ago (their point being wanting to increase that - HAH!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9800pro Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Very cool! Did not know that... Two questions: can it be done on C4HE or does it need full composer? Second, can I trigger other actions such as turning my amps on? Thanks a lot! What amps? If system is properly configured when Sonos triggers Auto Room On the rest of the audio system in chain should power it self ON. sent from my G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Yeah, really shouldn't have to do anything if your system has been programmed correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie-c4 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Is it still the case with the latest Sonos Control4 Drivers (Network (Works With Sonos Certified) version 73 & Sonos (Works With Sonos Certified) version 73 that there is still no integration of options like Music Library, Music Services, Favorites, Playlists on the Control4 App? Just added these new certified drivers to a project and now just comes up with a blank screen on the Control4 app and the it plays the song from whatever was playing via the Sonos App. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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