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New Sonos Endorsed Drive is out!

msgreenf

By msgreenf
in General Control4 Discussion

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wappinghigh Grand Master

wappinghigh

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6 minutes ago, thegizzard said:

I agree. Which is why my original point holds I think. My family is going to just set it and forget it.

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Great. Like I said. Everyone should do whatever suits their own personal circumstances. 

At least we now have the facts.

But C4 should stop try putting lipstick on a pig.. and come clean with their end users......

Rock on C4. With or without em...

W

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SMHarman Veteran

SMHarman

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Theory like hinted it (and it was a solid hint) weeks ago. It wasn't a secret to the dealers.. Theory saw it in the CEDIA booth

We also found and posted a link to the official announcement back then from C4 as they tried to put up a brave face by not mentioning the obvious... It was more what was actually left out in the carefully worded statement..... 

An the Creston driver

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terminaldisclaimer Enthusiast

terminaldisclaimer

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Well like I said in the other thread. This is very bad news for C4. They are now losing a major selling point to their system. Heos might work, but a lot of owners like myself that have heavily invested in Sonos are not going to be keen on spending the money to switch to Denon. 

At this point, the best C4 can hope for is that Sonos doesn't break the UPNP functionality any time soon. Hopefully, by that time they have figured out a way to integrate in Spotify. 

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wappinghigh Grand Master

wappinghigh

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26 minutes ago, cdepaola said:

Sonos does just work, its rock solid and has always been. Sure the integration isn't awesome but the Sonos app has always been the better option, even recently.

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Sure. That is a true and fair comment. It will still suit a lot of folks. :) 

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Gary Leeds UK Veteran

Gary Leeds UK

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Full Sonos Info From C4 

Sonos Endorsed Control4 Driver

Introducing the Sonos Endorsed Control4 Driver
Now that Sonos has a defined partner program (announced August 30, 2016), Control4 has developed and released a driver that complies with Sonos requirements for an "endorsed experience", which is focused on the following principles:

Speed to music
Infusing music into smart home "scenes"

Features of the new Sonos endorsed driver include the following:

Ability to start a Sonos favorite
Displaying now playing metadata
Transport control
Volume control
Grouping Sonos zones together
Browsing and searching for music as well as managing favorites must be handled through the Sonos application. The Sonos app experience is very personal and generally focused on the mobile device whereas the new endorsed Control4 driver is more conducive to use with keypads, television on-screen-displays, and Control4 touch screens.


Control4 Integration with Sonos Background Information

Each of our third party partners (including Sonos) independently defines and develops its integration policies and API, if any. Sonos has recently defined and published an authorized API as well as a formal integration policy. Prior to this announcement, integration was only possible through their UPnP interface (UPnP is a public standard utilizing ‘clear text’ protocol transmitted across IP networks).

As a result, there are now two available Sonos driver implementations: 1) The previous unsupported Sonos Integration via direct UPnP ‘clear text’ communication, and 2) a new “endorsed” Sonos Integration utilizing Sonos’ new JSON & UPnP hybrid API, which complies with Sonos’ integration and use-case policies.

Control4 was one of the first companies to receive access to the new Sonos API. We have implemented all of the features and functionality available through this Sonos-supported API and will continue to add features if and when Sonos makes them available. Because this is a Sonos platform, Control4 is unable to predict or announce potential future plans for the API. In addition, Control4 does not have information on the future availability of the UPnP integration.

Should Control4 dealers have concerns or constructive feedback about Sonos’ endorsed API or integration policies, those dealers should contact their Sonos representative and provide their direct feedback and questions. When appropriate, Control4 will also provide constructive feedback and recommendations to Sonos.

Frequently Asked Questions

Why did Control4 develop a Sonos driver prior to Sonos' official partner program?

Control4's ecosystem includes nearly 10,000 device integrations. Control4's purpose is to enable all of the devices in the home to work together to create compelling experiences for homeowners. Therefore, it made a lot of sense for Control4 to develop a driver for the very popular Sonos products.

The API against which Control4's first Sonos driver was developed is unencrypted UPnP, which is an open standard designed for interoperability
Tens of other companies have created similar integrated solutions using the same UPnP API

Will Control4 projects that are using the previous, unsupported Sonos driver stop working?

Not immediately (as of the release of the endorsed driver). However, because this is a Sonos platform, Control4 does not have information on the future availability of the UPnP integration. Dealers should consult with their Sonos representative for more information about the UPnP integration.


Will Control4 continue developing and maintaining the unsupported Sonos driver?

Control4 will continue to maintain the existing driver as needed (bug fixes), but all new development will be focused on supporting the Sonos endorsed API and experience.


Will Control4 remove the unsupported UPnP-based driver from its online driver database?

Control4 has no current plans to remove the UPnP-based driver from the driver database but will work cooperatively with Sonos on future driver policy decisions.


Can I upgrade the unsupported Sonos driver to the new, endorsed Sonos driver?

There is no direct upgrade path from the legacy driver to the new driver; if an upgrade is desired, the existing, legacy drivers should be deleted from the project and the new endorsed drivers added. 


Can the unsupported Sonos driver and new, endorsed driver coexist in the same project?

There is no interaction between the unsupported driver and the endorsed driver, so they can co-exist in the same project. Some settings may interfere (for example, room auto-on) as they are controlling the same device. Note that using both drivers in the same project would require the installer to use End Point 2 for one of the drivers (in ‘Connections’).


What are the missing features in the endorsed driver?

The main “missing” feature is music selection of any kind beyond selecting a Sonos favorite. There is no browse, search or selection of music from any music service or the music library possible, beyond selecting what has already been made a Sonos favorite. Additionally:

Only the now playing item and the next item from the queue are exposed, so it is not possible to jump to a specific position in the queue.
At the time of releasing this driver, Shuffle, Repeat, and Crossfade were not yet implemented in the Sonos API, so control of these features was not yet available through the Control4 driver.

How do I setup a local source to play through my Sonos system?

Line in control is not possible, so there is no way to switch a Sonos device to the local input. Control4 added a “fake” optical input to the driver so that the Playbar can be used as a volume endpoint on the audio path. However this does not trigger any input change, so the Sonos system must be set up to auto switch to the optical input on detection of a signal.


Why can’t I add mini-drivers for the different music services that my client wants to use?

No mini-drivers for the different music services are available because no music search, browse, and selection is possible. You or your client must set up favorites within the Sonos application.

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9800pro Enthusiast

9800pro

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So instead of ea1 and 4 sonos amps now we'll sell ea5 and some random multichannel amp.

Can't believe they think this is a step forward. Thank goodness all of our C4 customers with Sonos use Sonos app because they were to cheap to buy hc800 or ea3/5 ...

sent from my G2

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knowitall Mentor

knowitall

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It's so fun to demo (much less use) a "integrated" system ok use the Control4 app ok now the music is playing so go ahead and switch over to the Sonos app. Oh volume? Yea just jump back to the c4 app

sheesh it's like 2011 all over again

 

i like the quote about OSD's KP's and TP's as well. Cus every single c4 project has those. I know c4 says there should be a way to control system in every room, but that was 10 years ago. Today everyone has that ability thru a phone or tablet 

 

/rant

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msgreenf Grand Master

msgreenf

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14 minutes ago, knowitall said:

It's so fun to demo (much less use) a "integrated" system ok use the Control4 app ok now the music is playing so go ahead and switch over to the Sonos app. Oh volume? Yea just jump back to the c4 app

 

yup - the appeal is going away.  I always sold everyone on not having to have a FOLDER of apps to control your house.  Just use 1 app.  

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thegizzard Community Regular

thegizzard

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In pure philosophical, programming, aesthetic and functional terms swapping in and out of apps is HA sacrilege. 

The whole idea is to incorporate function and the user experience  

W

One thing that trumps features is usuability. It has to actually work. My recent experience with the Sonos driver has been terrible since our major service is Spotify which from what I can tell us broken by authentication issues.

I'd rather have this endorsed driver if it's my only other option.

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cdepaola Mentor

cdepaola

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yup - the appeal is going away.  I always sold everyone on not having to have a FOLDER of apps to control your house.  Just use 1 app.  

Control4 is awesome at this, some apps are just provide an inherently better user experience. Music has always been one of those

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cdepaola Mentor

cdepaola

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The spotify app just got the same level of integration as Control4's new driver - https://www.engadget.com/2016/11/01/sonos-spotify-connect-public-beta

Don't know I'd call this the same level. The Spotify Connect integration is rather bad ass, add on to that then Alexa integration and you still have the best streamer on the market

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turls Experienced

turls

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I'm not seeing anything which leads me to believe that the "new" integration is going to be very elegant if I have multiple zone players.  Put another way, the Sonos app does not seem to understand the concept of matrixed audio.  If it did, it might be less clunky.

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wappinghigh Grand Master

wappinghigh

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The spotify app just got the same level of integration as Control4's new driver - https://www.engadget.com/2016/11/01/sonos-spotify-connect-public-beta

That's actually massive news. I'm going to keep a few Sonos zone players on that news.

So much change afoot it's difficult to keep up and know what's going on....let alone plan what the do..... W.

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wappinghigh Grand Master

wappinghigh

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Don't know I'd call this the same level. The Spotify Connect integration is rather bad ass, add on to that then Alexa integration and you still have the best streamer on the market

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I tend to agree. Wow. This certainly is a bit of a game changer. So Spotify is going to streal eyeballs away from the Sonos app as well. Right after Sonos steals eyes from the C4 GUI !!!! This news changes everything. I hinted to everyone like months ago this was where I thought things were heading - that it was the music service companies (not Sonos) who really "owned" the customer. Dang . I knew it all along. Looks like team Sonos is going to have to eat a lot of humble pie??? ! Massive implications for a company like C4 as well if you think about it...... W.

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wappinghigh Grand Master

wappinghigh

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Spotify Connect. Slam dunk. I told ya"all this was putting pressure on Sonos and this was where things were heading ...Like over 12 months ago.... can I be so bold (without bragging to much ) to ask if you guys would allow me find and link that original thread ?

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