New Sonos Endorsed Drive is out!

[bdo21]

If you were starting from scratch (new house, new C4 system, new speakers, option regarding which music system you could use but ideally with Audible integration), what system would you use? It seems that Sonos is not a good option, I only see speaker ranges from Heos so I'm not sure if it is relevant for hard wired speakers.

Would you just use the C4 built-in services (e.g. Deezer), perhaps with Amazon Alexa to play Audible books?

I was planning to use Sonos (which had Spotify and is planning to integrate audible) but I won't do that anymore.

Thank you

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, bdo21 said:

If you were starting from scratch (new house, new C4 system, new speakers, option regarding which music system you could use but ideally with Audible integration), what system would you use? It seems that Sonos is not a good option, I only see speaker ranges from Heos so I'm not sure if it is relevant for hard wired speakers.

Would you just use the C4 built-in services (e.g. Deezer), perhaps with Amazon Alexa to play Audible books?

I was planning to use Sonos (which had Spotify and is planning to integrate audible) but I won't do that anymore.

Thank you

Look for heos link. Same thing as Sonos connect.  Can hook it up to any amp or matrix set up 

[wappinghigh]

^yep. Whole multiroom music thing is in a state of flux. Spotify flexing their muscle. They have the huge cuutomer base. Best app. And now their very own embedded type of "airplay". W

[wappinghigh]

2 hours ago, bdo21 said:

If you were starting from scratch (new house, new C4 system, new speakers, option regarding which music system you could use but ideally with Audible integration), what system would you use? It seems that Sonos is not a good option, I only see speaker ranges from Heos so I'm not sure if it is relevant for hard wired speakers.

Would you just use the C4 built-in services (e.g. Deezer), perhaps with Amazon Alexa to play Audible books?

I was planning to use Sonos (which had Spotify and is planning to integrate audible) but I won't do that anymore.

Thank you

From the links in this thread Sonos will play Spotify "direct" via Spotify connect. It's in beta... or at least that is what I'm reading. Am I correct? Of course Heos does this already. W 

 

[msgreenf]

9 minutes ago, wappinghigh said:

From the links in this thread Sonos will play Spotify "direct" via Spotify connect. It's in beta... or at least that is what I'm reading. Am I correct? Of course Heos does this already. W 

 

yes, beta

[wappinghigh]

^ Looks like Sonos hardware resale is about to go up..

But don't chuck all your Sonos ZP's out quite yet chaps! W

[msgreenf]

7 minutes ago, wappinghigh said:

^ Looks like Sonos hardware resale is about to go up..

But don't chuck all your Sonos ZP's out quite yet chaps! W

personally, I have never understood what makes Spotify so great....I think the biggest thing is this space is what fits your needs, everyone is slightly different...

[RAV]

It's not broken.

Control4 said, we're not going to remove the drivers unless Sonos makes us.

Sonos said at CEDIA, we have no intention of breaking the unauthorized control. What's it take to break it, shutting down the way the driver works, which affects a LOT more than just Control4.

Is it all we could hope and wish for? No, not right now. Will it get better? Of course it will, it has too, Sonos can't afford to upset the cash cart, there's a lot of dogs chasing it, waiting for a bump in the road. Have the other company's made any serious inroads over the last 2 years, year, 6 months? No, not really, mostly unfulfilled promises.

It's a little early to abandon a ship that hasn't even struck the iceberg yet. If it makes you feel better, close the water tight doors, setup an extra spotter, and count the lifeboats, then let's get back to the party.

[msgreenf]

5 minutes ago, RAV said:

Will it get better? Of course it will, it has too,

Isn't that an assumption that it will get better?

[cdepaola]

Isn't that an assumption that it will get better?

Isn't it an assumption that it won't?

I don't see any other similar product being any better and even if they are you'll be chasing products for ever. As soon as you move from Sonos to something else Sonos will make a change that will be even better. This pattern will continue for ever. It's like chasing Amazon Alexa and Google Home. Home looks better right now but it's amazon, do you think they will just sit back and let google win this easy. It's not like it's google vs some kick starter product. These goliaths want to dominate

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[msgreenf]

Just now, cdepaola said:

Isn't it an assumption that it won't?

I don't see any other similar product being any better and even if they are you'll be chasing products for ever. As soon as you move from Sonos to something else Sonos will make a change that will be even better. This pattern will continue for ever. It's like chasing Amazon Alexa and Google Home. Home looks better right now but it's amazon, do you think they will just sit back and let google win this easy. It's not like it's google vs some kick starter product. These goliaths want to dominate

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oh i agree 100%, HA is a utopia of which everyone has a different goal.  You are right, I am just saying that as of now, this is the "official" stance that Sonos wants to take.  

[SMHarman]

Isn't it an assumption that it won't?

I don't see any other similar product being any better and even if they are you'll be chasing products for ever. As soon as you move from Sonos to something else Sonos will make a change that will be even better. This pattern will continue for ever. It's like chasing Amazon Alexa and Google Home. Home looks better right now but it's amazon, do you think they will just sit back and let google win this easy. It's not like it's google vs some kick starter product. These goliaths want to dominate

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Isn't that an assumption that it will get better?

Looking at the Creston implementation I'm not sure getting better is guaranteed.

[thegizzard]

I have my current plan for Control4, the new Sonos driver, Echo Dot (Alexa), and Spotify.

Via the Epic driver I can tell Alexa to tell Control4 to play a Spotify Playlist via a Sonos Playlist in a specific zone of the house (where the Alexa is located or elsewhere).

This works and  It's hands free.  And neither the Control4 App or Sonos App or Spotify App is required.  I believe Alexa changes the game and will be the future of all of this.

The only problem is its slightly convoluted to program.  I need to program each command one at a time myself.

How will Spotify integration with Alexa and Sonos make this easier?  Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Cyknight]

1 hour ago, cdepaola said:

 

 

Isn't it an assumption that it won't?

 

No, it's an assumption that it will change at all - be it better or worse. The only thing you have guaranteed is what you have.

C4 AFAIK certainly has been banging at Sonos' door to get this API better - but where that will lead is anyone's guess.

[Cyknight]

15 hours ago, wappinghigh said:

^yep. Whole multiroom music thing is in a state of flux.

Meh.

Quote

Spotify flexing their muscle.

?

Quote

They have the huge cuutomer base. Best app.

Sure on the first - I still don't like the app.

[Cyknight]

On 10/31/2016 at 9:00 PM, terminaldisclaimer said:

They are now losing a major selling point to their system.

Sonos was never a major selling point for their system. Perhaps it was for you personally - but I've NEVER sold a system because it did Sonos - with one exception where I put C4 overtop of Sonos because the people using it couldn't deal with the zones as Sonos uses them, needed something simpler.

[Cyknight]

17 hours ago, wappinghigh said:

Spotify Connect. Slam dunk. I told ya"all this was putting pressure on Sonos and this was where things were heading ...Like over 12 months ago....

This has nothing to do with what's happening here - you're patting yourself on the back for no reason. Even IF I could begin to agree Spotify connect is any good (and I still couldn't care less about it function wise)

[Cyknight]

On 10/31/2016 at 7:43 PM, thegizzard said:

Guys.  I hate to say this.  But I kind of like it.  Two reasons.  

1. Its simple and clean.  While the choices are limited to favorites.  I just created favorites for my family's playlists.

2. If you are near your phone, the sonos app shows whats playing and of course you can take over from the sonos app.   My guess is this is what was intended.  It's not horrible.

99% of the time my family will choose a favorite and then walk away.  I was the only one who ever bothered searching for music on the touch panels, and I can even more easily do that from the sonos app.  I hate to go against the grain... but it really aint terrible.

Finally,

If this means I will never see another Spotify authentication screen then I am thrilled.

Problem is - you could ALWAYS do it this exact way to begin with, by not adding the service mini drivers other than favorites.

[thegizzard]

Problem is - you could ALWAYS do it this exact way to begin with, by not adding the service mini drivers other than favorites.

I agree. For whatever reason I never used it that way. I had too many other options. This is like a Mac/iPhone vs Android implementation. Hide all the bells and whistles and make it dead simple to use. Power users know it's crippled, Grandmas everywhere love it.

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[terminaldisclaimer]

On 11/2/2016 at 11:14 AM, Cyknight said:

Sonos was never a major selling point for their system. Perhaps it was for you personally - but I've NEVER sold a system because it did Sonos - with one exception where I put C4 overtop of Sonos because the people using it couldn't deal with the zones as Sonos uses them, needed something simpler.

First, it's basically indisputable that Sonos is a very popular integration with C4. As just one data point, look at the size of this thread and the other thread on this issue. 

Second, whether Sonos is a major selling point for your customers is irrelevant. As an initial matter, even if it were possible to infer from the selling process the importance of a feature, your experiences are at best anecdotal. Here's another anecdote--I didn't care about Sonos when I purchased my C4 system either! More importantly though, what a user thinks they want, and what they actually use are two different things. I'm not sure I could have understood how important Sonos was until I started using it. The legacy Sonos driver, overall, provided great integration. I can't imagine that someone who uses that driver regularly is NOT going to be extremely upset to learn that it is losing basically all of its functionality. And as I mentioned above, the Sonos driver is popular, so this change must affect a lot of people. 

Third, it's not even Sonos that is the issue really. It is really Spotify (and other streaming services) that are the issue. Spotify is probably the most ubiquitous streaming service in the US, like it or not. My understanding is that if someone wanted Spotify with C4, the most common solution was to use a Sonos connect. Tell me how it works for you when you tell your customers you need to sell them a new $300 Denon Heos box to fix their Spotify issues. They might pay, but they won't be happy. 

That said, if C4 can integrate with Spotify, I think it would solve a lot of problems. I really hope they do this, which I've been saying consistently all along.

[Cyknight]

5 minutes ago, terminaldisclaimer said:

First, it's basically indisputable that Sonos is a very popular integration with C4. As just one data point, look at the size of this thread and the other thread on this issue. 

Second, whether Sonos is a major selling point for your customers is irrelevant. As an initial matter, even if it were possible to infer from the selling process the importance of a feature, your experiences are at best anecdotal. Here's another anecdote--I didn't care about Sonos when I purchased my C4 system either! More importantly though, what a user thinks they want, and what they actually use are two different things. I'm not sure I could have understood how important Sonos was until I started using it. The legacy Sonos driver, overall, provided great integration. I can't imagine that someone who uses that driver regularly is NOT going to be extremely upset to learn that it is losing basically all of its functionality. And as I mentioned above, the Sonos driver is popular, so this change must affect a lot of people. 

Third, it's not even Sonos that is the issue really. It is really Spotify (and other streaming services) that are the issue. Spotify is probably the most ubiquitous streaming service in the US, like it or not. My understanding is that if someone wanted Spotify with C4, the most common solution was to use a Sonos connect. Tell me how it works for you when you tell your customers you need to sell them a new $300 Denon Heos box to fix their Spotify issues. They might pay, but they won't be happy. 

That said, if C4 can integrate with Spotify, I think it would solve a lot of problems. I really hope they do this, which I've been saying consistently all along.

First, it's easily disputable that Sonos is popular within C4. Just looking at this thread of more advanced users is absolutely NO indicator whatsoever.
I have numerous other datapoints available to me that state quite the opposite.

Second, you experience as an end-user is FAR more anecdotal than my own experience in sheer numbers. I'm not debating Sonos integration was (is?) excellent - heck I use it myself - but SONOS was never any reason to sell C4. And yes once the old driver fails, I've no doubt I'll have a few upset clients. And as per above, I'm not basing my info on my own experience alone by any means.

Third, you're correct - it's streaming services in general. I even think most of the 'blame' may fall unto streaming services, a point made numerous times on these forums. Streaming services are fluid, constantly changing, and often reluctant to allow any easy access to their services for 3rd parties. That is at least part of where Sonos, undoubtedly, was a good option. The main point is - people don't ask for Sonos - they ask for streaming services.

I've no issue if C4 'just' directly integrates with Spotify - the more option natively the merrier. I WILL point out that there is no 'just' about it, and that the biggest block to get this done likely isn't Control4 - as you pointed out above, the real issue is the streaming services themselves.

[msgreenf]

yeah, this site is not representative of the overall control4 base...

[terminaldisclaimer]

32 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

yeah, this site is not representative of the overall control4 base...

I get that, of course. But given how Sonos was a preferred method of integrating with Streaming services, it would surprise me if it was not a very popular driver. 

34 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Second, you experience as an end-user is FAR more anecdotal than my own experience in sheer numbers. I

I know...I was just being snarky  The point is that none of this is good news. And my only hope is that *you*, as a dealer who actually holds sway (at least way more than me) with C4, can convince them to invest some money in integrating with Spotify.

[msgreenf]

Just now, terminaldisclaimer said:

as a dealer who actually holds sway with C4, can convince them to invest some money in integrating with Spotify.

Remember, integration is a 2 way street.  Both parties have to want to do it....

but with that said, I wouldn't be surprised if Spotify was added very similarly to the Shairbridge driver in a future release

[knowitall]

Here's the issue - before 2.8 getting pandora into the system wasn't great. Airport express/music bridge was functional but suffered from roaming issues/phone calls/etc. and EVERYONE WANTED pandora. Now, it's native great, but more people are requesting Spotify and Sirius. 

 

So whether or not sonos was a selling point of the system is moot. It was almost a necessity. And now that there are countless systems out there running some version of the EV driver that's just gonna stop working one day is going to cause issues. Half the people probably don't even know they have sonos  all they know is pandora and Spotify work

 

If if you can get your customers to pay because integration broke, fantastic for you. If I were an end user I wouldn't pay for any reprogramming. 

 

Time me will tell. Should be fun