wappinghigh Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 44 minutes ago, msgreenf said: You always seem to find problems with 3rd party things and think control4 has a magic wand to fix everything Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk Nobody "finds" problems deliberately. Sh!t just happens in networks and with networked devices OK? This is where there remains a fundamental disconnect. Control4 must learn to live in the real world. Adding network AND IR options from a device like an SR260 would be a darn good way of living in that real world... Like somebody said.. this is a definite advantage of the Harmony. Now fess up and accept that as a fact... Nobody said control4 needs to be a magic wand and fix everything. However, Moving to a 100% network control philosophy (whilst everyone agrees is admirable) does break down occasionally in the real world. I would take a guess, more often than not, than some around here would care to admit... TV's are very common devices. Direct IR remains a very robust way of simple on/off and input switch control.. So logic follows it would be awesome to have IR backup somehow built into the Control4 platform. So if a network command continually fails, the end user has an an option to let IR step in... And what better way that a dual network/IR control device like an SR260 with IR emitter? Luv and kisses. Petulant child xxxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d1amund Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Before anyone asks what's behind the front of the remote that looks like a typical IR window...the answer: nothing :-) wappinghigh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 9 hours ago, wappinghigh said: Petulant child Thanks for insulting me. Done with your threads. Bye Felicia Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubben Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 10 hours ago, wappinghigh said: Why? Harmony seems to have been able to do it perfectly... Give one of the keys a "failsafe" command... The GUI on the SR260 could be used for feedback.... I get tired of Control4 and (some dealers) not listening to the experience of end users... clearly valuable feedback from the field in real life situations (when the dealer isn't there ) never gets fed back .... I've been telling you guys that this would be a valuable addition (when things fail)..which they do from time to time. No denying it.. Take it or leave it Whether dealers think it is a good idea or not is frankly irrelevant. You don't live in our houses 24/7... Dont push your ideas on me. I AM a end user, and me and my family lives in our house. But I have a stable network, and when something fails, its not the network. If you have network trouble, fix your network. Dont use another type of command, and say you fixed a solution. If you know how the SR-250/260 works, how could you come up with this idea? Sound like you hit your head, but instead of drawing a flux capacitor, you came up with dual commands and believes that IR fixes everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 How would this programming even work? A network command would be sent and a ir command would be sent. So if this is a TV with no discreet on / off you just turned it on, then off. Whoops Anyway. The ONLY IR I use and could use without wiring an ir transmission system is the TV on / off. If that breaks then I walk over to the TV and use the same backup solution I used to write this message. My finger. 9800pro, South Africa C4 user, OneEye95 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 So with your display in the room and your sources in the rack what would IR in the remote accomplish? The ability to turn the TV on and off? ..... Use IR control from the start if you're worried about your network. Problem solved. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 I agree...this wouldn't be a good, workable solution. In ten years I can't think of a time when I wished that I could send IR from my SR remote. If it's not sending a command to turn the TV on/off, it's not doing other things which are for more important and need to happen for me to watch TV. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Guys, we are all clueless. Wap knows all. Don't you realize that by now? Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 We should have C4 design a IR receiver on each light switch as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 And in the motion sensors. Never know if you need to beam some ir from the ceiling Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk SMHarman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3D - Benn Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 When I first certified in Control4 I was fairly astonished to find the remotes didn't have IR built in, but at the same time very relieved! I've enough experience in AV and other control systems to know that relying on the end user to point one thing at another for any longer then 500 milliseconds is a bad idea. While you may not get any issues sending the odd command, start sending macros and eventually something will miss. As RyanE said, its simply not reliable. In terms of "Backup" 95% of systems we install have a HDMI matrix in place, we then have a IR receiver at each TV, and a bud on each source at the rack allowing direct control using the original remotes. This IR backbone is completely separate to C4. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 14 hours ago, msgreenf said: Thanks for insulting me. Done with your threads. Bye Felicia Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk You got me all wrong. I wasn't insulting you. "Petulant Child" was referring to myself. Talking and posting in the "First person". Go back and re-read... as in "blah blah.. blah blah blah.... Regards Petulant Child" Anyway Take it or leave it. I know I was referring to myself when i wrote it. I don't care anymore what others think of me. I know how the system works (in the real world) You guys need to hear it.. and send the message back. C4 Central doesn't listen to us.. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 43 minutes ago, Benn Howard said: When I first certified in Control4 I was fairly astonished to find the remotes didn't have IR built in, but at the same time very relieved! I've enough experience in AV and other control systems to know that relying on the end user to point one thing at another for any longer then 500 milliseconds is a bad idea. While you may not get any issues sending the odd command, start sending macros and eventually something will miss. As RyanE said, its simply not reliable. In terms of "Backup" 95% of systems we install have a HDMI matrix in place, we then have a IR receiver at each TV, and a bud on each source at the rack allowing direct control using the original remotes. This IR backbone is completely separate to C4. Exactly. Thanks for confirming network control is never 100% reliable. I was simply suggesting a better way to achieve exactly what you are doing using the SR250/260 (without having to find then pick up the original remotes) Then I get attacked as if I am some sort of moron. Oh no.... "you couldn't possibly do that..." Well why not? It's done with the Harmony If I don;t fully understand the technical reasons? Then fine. I accept that.. but surely this problem is not insurmountable? Is it a crime to ask questions around here now? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 11 hours ago, SMHarman said: How would this programming even work? A network command would be sent and a ir command would be sent. So if this is a TV with no discreet on / off you just turned it on, then off. Whoops Anyway. The ONLY IR I use and could use without wiring an ir transmission system is the TV on / off. If that breaks then I walk over to the TV and use the same backup solution I used to write this message. My finger. Why couldn't it be designed to work exactly like it does with the Harmony? ONLY If you have a problem..> then push that button...> send IR command> interact with the SR260 GUI (as to what you are doing)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 12 hours ago, Bubben said: Dont push your ideas on me. I AM a end user, and me and my family lives in our house. But I have a stable network, and when something fails, its not the network. If you have network trouble, fix your network. Dont use another type of command, and say you fixed a solution. If you know how the SR-250/260 works, how could you come up with this idea? Sound like you hit your head, but instead of drawing a flux capacitor, you came up with dual commands and believes that IR fixes everything. Do you have a network with over 75 IP devices addressable? It may not be the actual network that fails...but the IP control of the particular device in question.. (like it is no longer "seen" anymore .. for whatever reason) When it's say a TV...and a simple IR command like "on" (say after a power failure) might resolve the issue.. why not? Don;t tell me other people never have to reach for the other remotes ever, because I just simply do not believe you. Cheers W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 9 hours ago, Brownbatsbreath said: So with your display in the room and your sources in the rack what would IR in the remote accomplish? The ability to turn the TV on and off? ..... Yep exactly that sort of simple thing... and maybe input changes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 Forget it I get fed up suggesting things around here to make it better for all... Or asking "why" things couldn't be improved or done better... Oh no.. Can't possibly rock the C4 bus. "It's simply perfect" Enjoy your HA systems ... W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Do you have a network with over 75 IP devices addressable? It may not be the actual network that fails...but the IP control of the particular device in question.. (like it is no longer "seen" anymore .. for whatever reason) When it's say a TV...and a simple IR command like "on" (say after a power failure) might resolve the issue.. why not? Don;t tell me other people never have to reach for the other remotes ever, because I just simply do not believe you. Cheers W You got me. Mine only has 35 up addressable devices. But yes since 2014 when we moved in nobody has picked up a remote other than the HC250. Well nobody but me setting up the avr for ip control. Even when a firmware upgrade put the bd player in low energy sleep (so no wol) I still fixed that on the hc250 once I had pressed power on on the device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 Thats great What router, network, firewall setup, DOS filters, etc do you have? There are so many variables between everyones systems... It is simply impractical to suggest end users move to the one "endorsed" Control4 network Sure the general principles of dumb unmanged switches, fixed IP addresses etc etc but everyone with the same network? And what do you do and how do you plan for the "unplanable" and unforseen "black swan" like the recent DOS attack on DNS.org etc? Or a new TV that doesn't "play ball"..or a firmware that hasn't been upgraded a while by the customer? Or the customer loads on some bogus app onto their droid TV that creates a big black hole in their network? Or adds in a second WIFI access point that causes havoc, or an end user adding in and trialling a different UPnP server that might put a larger load on the network? Or any number of infinite uncontrollable or unforseen possible events? Does Control4 seriously think their dealer network will do all that and supervise such network changes for the customer? Or worse expect them come out and fix it? That I think is the problem and why I ask all the time for more robust Control4 "backup plans" Be they a better more "network storm proof" primary controller..or secondary IR backup functionality... How many different makes of IP addressable devices? I would have probably well over 20-30 maybe more different makes... My TV simply trashed my network - Ok? Did i want this to happen? No. Did I plan for it? No. Was it hard to locate the issue with so many independent devices on the network? Yes. Do I deliberately want to cause trouble around here? Of course not. Do I have members of the opposite sex screaming at me and eye rolling me 24/7 because they can't "just watch simple TV"?.. darn right I do! (My Sony TV is sorted now btw... had to do a complete reset of Android from scratch...) Cheers W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 16 hours ago, wappinghigh said: Don't tell me other people never have to reach for the other remotes ever, because I just simply do not believe you. My remotes are nowhere near any of my devices, and haven't been used literally in *years*. I've had massive Network failures before (including my main network switch catastrophically failing while I was at CEDIA, as it turns out...), and having the 'original remotes' handy would *only* have helped *me*. i.e. even with the original remotes, my wife couldn't get the TV on the right input, the AVR setup properly, and control the device without my walking her through it step by step, and that's *much less* confusing than having a *very infrequently used* set of steps to get an SR-260 to spit out the equivalent IR for 3 devices in the same situation. And to answer your question, yes, most Control4 customers do expect their dealers to come "sort things out" when they're not working, usually after having that same dealer spec out the equipment, which usually means things they've used and they know don't have those sorts of issues... RyanE msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 17 hours ago, wappinghigh said: I know how the system works (in the real world) And no-one else that has told you it'd be a useless feature do? I can tell you one thing, if I were to base your 'knowledge' on how your C4 system works in 'the real world' on the idea that a built in IR blaster would give you any function whatsoever - it would rate at zero Quote I've been telling you guys that this would be a valuable addition (when things fail)..which they do from time to time. No denying it.. That things go wrong - no-one's denying that. That it would be a valuable, or even a functional, addition - oh it sure can be denied and argumented against VERY easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 18 hours ago, wappinghigh said: Thanks for confirming network control is never 100% reliable. I was simply suggesting a better way to achieve exactly what you are doing using the SR250/260 (without having to find then pick up the original remotes) 1 IR control is never 100% reliable. So... if you're basing a solution off whether it's 100% reliable, then this is not a 'better way'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forum Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 It's 2016. It's not the network. It's you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamT Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 On 11/6/2016 at 5:49 PM, wappinghigh said: There are so many variables between everyones systems... It is simply impractical to suggest end users move to the one "endorsed" Control4 network Welllll now you just answered almost every single one of your questions, rants and slanders here with the first sentence. On the second sentence I would like to compare that to saying "Wait, I bought a Corvette and your telling me I cannot put Diesel into it? Thats just stupid, I like Diesel better and should be able to use it, I mean I did buy the car didnt I?" Just my 2 cents. Flame me all you want WAP..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashish_Jamesh Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 On 11/6/2016 at 8:29 AM, d1amund said: Before anyone asks what's behind the front of the remote that looks like a typical IR window...the answer: nothing https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161106/6264566a7c3fe5cbb62fac8c4da8b32f.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161106/788981432aad924ffe399f9f7986ef8c.jpg Sir I need clear image of R78/U10 IC which is nearby Display belt attachment. Kindly upload high resolution pics of that or send me value or part number pls. My technician removed it lost that component from Control4 SR-260 remote Control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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