Dave w Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Control4 is #48 on the Fortune's 100 Fastest-Growing Companies List 2018....just saying. The luxury home/individual as end user is only a small part of this growth. Commercial applications are much bigger portion, and that will always be a dealer/customer relationship and not threatened by Amazon, Apple, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod220 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, mstafford388 said: The CA-1 still requires a dealer to do the install. The builder program is designed to engage volume builders with Control4 dealers. contractors and electricians do not have the ability to sell any control4 gear unless they are a dealer. so is Control4 not allowed to be the go to for AV needs unless every product they launch has AV? The CA-1 is not designed to target DIY clients as they cannot DIY. then launch 4Sight...?? which has been available for a decade? its my understanding 4Sight was upgraded heavily early last year granting homeowner control far beyond what they had previously. is that not accurate? CA-1 is not a DIY product, but it is targeting the consumer who is thinking they don't want to drop $5k on a big boy system, when they can do DIY for free. That customer may say while its not free, for $500 I'm be willing to do that over DIY. So they can in fact target the same DIY consumer, without being a DIY product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod220 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Just now, Dave w said: Control4 is #48 on the Fortune's 100 Fastest-Growing Companies List 2018....just saying. The luxury home/individual as end user is only a small part of this growth. Commercial applications are much bigger portion, and that will always be a dealer/customer relationship and not threatened by Amazon, Apple, etc... Look at previous fast growing company lists, many at the top vanish a few years later, so not a great predictor of the future. I agree on the commercial side, and would put them in the category where I see dealers fitting, luxury, high end, large scale. I've said that consistently, i.e. the travel agent example. Booking an office of 100 to go to Spain? Travel Agent. Booking one flight from LA to Denver? Kayak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 its my understanding 4Sight was upgraded heavily early last year granting homeowner control far beyond what they had previously. is that not accurate? CA-1 is not a DIY product, but it is targeting the consumer who is thinking they don't want to drop $5k on a big boy system, when they can do DIY for free. That customer may say while its not free, for $500 I'm be willing to do that over DIY. So they can in fact target the same DIY consumer, without being a DIY product. This is so in accurate. Diy is not free. You have to buy products and subscriptions and spend time. Time is not free. 4sight added when then. This is Web based programming that was already fully available in he. Just not in a Web app Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 And the CA1 was created to open the doors into a full C4 system. It also has built in Zwave. It is targeting the builders who install a single zwave doorlock, some zwave lighting, etc. Having the CA1 installed on these systems, now integrates all those apps needed for controlling those devices into a single platform. Which can then be expanded upon any way in the future. Get off the soap box, looks like its about to break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfh Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, lippavisual said: Having the CA1 installed on these systems, now integrates all those apps needed for controlling those devices into a single platform. Which can then be expanded upon any way in the future. If the homeowner can find a C4 dealer that cares about residential installs and building on an existing system without spending $$$, sure. Jury is still out on the CA1, but it seems like it more gimmick than gateway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 What experience is that comment based on? If the homeowner can find a C4 dealer that cares about residential installs and building on an existing system without spending $$$, sure. Jury is still out on the CA1, but it seems like it more gimmick than gateway. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod220 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, lippavisual said: And the CA1 was created to open the doors into a full C4 system. It also has built in Zwave. It is targeting the builders who install a single zwave doorlock, some zwave lighting, etc. Having the CA1 installed on these systems, now integrates all those apps needed for controlling those devices into a single platform. Which can then be expanded upon any way in the future. Get off the soap box, looks like its about to break. Other than access to 10,000 devices (of which they will use like 10), what is the big advantage to a customer using CA1 versus homekit? If its just to lock doors, windows, alarm, and lights, and the basics why would a customer spend the money on a CA1 and the programming expenses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod220 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, msgreenf said: This is so in accurate. Diy is not free. You have to buy products and subscriptions and spend time. Time is not free. 4sight added when then. This is Web based programming that was already fully available in he. Just not in a Web app Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk Product costs are a wash, not all products have subscriptions, the "free" was in reference to not buying a controller and paying dealer programming fees when Homekit can do it natively on an app that is free. I install 20 lutron light switches, on the homekit, totally free. Hardware costs are neutral, so yes, DIY to the consumer is free. As far as time? It takes time to install and it takes time to wait for an installer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Homekit isn't free but ok. Product costs are a wash, not all products have subscriptions, the "free" was in reference to not buying a controller and paying dealer programming fees when Homekit can do it natively on an app that is free. I install 20 lutron light switches, on the homekit, totally free. Hardware costs are neutral, so yes, DIY to the consumer is free. As far as time? It takes time to install and it takes time to wait for an installer.Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod220 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, msgreenf said: Homekit isn't free but ok. please elaborate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 You have to buy apple devices which are anything but free please elaborate Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 hours ago, mod220 said: its my understanding 4Sight was upgraded heavily early last year granting homeowner control far beyond what they had previously. is that not accurate? CA-1 is not a DIY product, but it is targeting the consumer who is thinking they don't want to drop $5k on a big boy system, when they can do DIY for free. That customer may say while its not free, for $500 I'm be willing to do that over DIY. So they can in fact target the same DIY consumer, without being a DIY product. So you don’t actually own a Control4 system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod220 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Just now, Brownbatsbreath said: So you don’t actually own a Control4 system? No, i thought that was pretty clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Just now, mod220 said: No, i thought that was pretty clear It probably was. Your posts were soooooo long I didn’t have time for all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod220 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, msgreenf said: You have to buy apple devices which are anything but free Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk Homekit is free and Integration is Free. C4 controller is money and integration is money. you are trying to mask the truth, Homekit is free. the iPhone used is already purchased and does a few more things for me beyond Homekit. Saying Homekit cost money because you have to buy devices overlooks the fact in any setup you have to buy devices, LOL. If parking garage A is free, but parking garage B is $10...do you really say "well garage A still requires you purchase the car." Come on man, you can do better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod220 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Brownbatsbreath said: It probably was. Your posts were soooooo long I didn’t have time for all that. you should invest the time to read them, maybe you will learn a few things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 41 minutes ago, mod220 said: Other than access to 10,000 devices (of which they will use like 10), what is the big advantage to a customer using CA1 versus homekit? You keep saying this like someone is going to have 10,000 devices installed. I think this is a miscommunication. When people are mentioning this, they mean you have a much larger pool of options. You’re not restricted to a few dozen choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 minute ago, mod220 said: you should invest the time to read them, maybe you will learn a few things I just learned HomeKit is free. SEND ME MY FREE I FONES AND HOMEKITS PLZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Do you at least have a working HomeKit system installed? Seems like a waste to listen to someone compare 2 systems that has no experience with either of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod220 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Brownbatsbreath said: I just learned HomeKit is free. SEND ME MY FREE I FONES AND HOMEKITS PLZ why is this so confusing? Homekit eliminates the need for a controller and integration fees, so yes, the Homekit "controller" and "integration" fees are free. get it? 2 minutes ago, Brownbatsbreath said: You keep saying this like someone is going to have 10,000 devices installed. I think this is a miscommunication. When people are mentioning this, they mean you have a much larger pool of options. You’re not restricted to a few dozen choices. I understand, my point was people here defending C4 are quick to point out the 10,000 options, even though the average consumer probably only buys 5-20 of them. and those few dozen choices may still cover the heavy majority of the needs out there. you can have a limited menu while still satisfying the majority of the consumers (i.e. In-N-Out Burger) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod220 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Brownbatsbreath said: Do you at least have a working HomeKit system installed? Seems like a waste to listen to someone compare 2 systems that has no experience with either of them... Whether or not I have working systems has no bearing on whether I'm right or wrong. As Milton Friedman once famously said when asked why anyone who was poor should take advice from a man like him who had never been poor, he replied "If you had brain cancer, would you only seek treatment from doctors, who they themselves had brain cancer?" In fact, I think the people here closest to C4 seem to have the hardest time seeing the big picture. My unbiased, fresh, curious view should be refreshing given all the comments I've read around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownbatsbreath Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 LoL. Yes. Your views are so fresh they’re in-line with a post from 2016. You've just made everyone’s point for them. To do what C4 does you need a controller to do what it does. Yes you can do a lot of cute similar things with HomeKit. Its. Not. The. Same. If you’ve used either, you’d have a better grasp of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 After reading this I feel so normal - Cheers Guys Yes C4 will need to change and hopefully Charlie Kindle will see this and hopefully map out the plan But Great Reading - Roll on Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Control4 is definitely not for everyone, and if someone is a tinkerer or DIY guy then something like homekit/smartthings/logitech may be more well suited so they have the freedom to do it on their own and be happy with having 40-60% of the core functionality without having to bring in a dealer For me the limited AV integration and lack of a handheld remote, integration with older IR devices, projectors etc keeps me from even entertaining homekit for my personal use since I have a 13x6 JAP system and 16x16 audio matrix. Plus I read that zwave devices need to have additional hardware to be homekit capable for security reasons so their supported device list will always be smaller so color/style/finish options for locks and lights may be a factor for some users. Plus I have set up a few smartthings hubs and while CoRE was pretty decent, having to configure everything with a phone or tablet made me want to blow my brains out after being used to a computer based application. I can say that 95% of our customers have absolutely no desire or in some cases ability to set up their own router/access points let alone av/lighting/thermostats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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