Whole Home Audio best practices...

[ejn1]

Hi all,

Just curious, for new installs are folks installing an analog inwall volume control in rooms with distributed audio or are you direct wiring to speakers and just using digital volume control from keypads or apps?  I see the benefit of inwall control being a quick turn down or muting but then it adds something in the signal path and another element into the wiring.

Kudos to C4 on their OS3 audio interface (not so new i know)....  combined with a C4 input switcher and any multiroom amp creates a great user experience.   I havent felt the need to reach for Sonos or my Auralic streamers in secondary rooms yet, the C4 experience has been great.    

[Cyknight]

23 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

installing an analog inwall volume control in rooms

LOL. No.

[RAV]

Only for like a bathroom tied to a bedroom zone to turn the bathroom lower or off. (dining to kitchen)

[ejn1]

47 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

LOL. No.

my home was wired 12 years ago so I have them... Occasionally they are used by folks who want to make a quick change in volume and not log into the app or go the touchscreen.   I can splice the speaker cable and take them out of the loop but haven't done it yet.     Mine also loop through my Russound which auto mutes the music when the intercom comes on.

[ejn1]

1 minute ago, RAV said:

Only for like a bathroom tied to a bedroom zone to turn the bathroom lower or off. (dining to kitchen)

can see that... 

[Andrew luecke]

A modern alternative to analog knobs would be configurable keypads linked to the volume. And multiple amps

[LollerAgent]

2 hours ago, ejn1 said:

Hi all,

Just curious, for new installs are folks installing an analog inwall volume control in rooms with distributed audio or are you direct wiring to speakers and just using digital volume control from keypads or apps?  I see the benefit of inwall control being a quick turn down or muting but then it adds something in the signal path and another element into the wiring.

Kudos to C4 on their OS3 audio interface (not so new i know)....  combined with a C4 input switcher and any multiroom amp creates a great user experience.   I havent felt the need to reach for Sonos or my Auralic streamers in secondary rooms yet, the C4 experience has been great.    

I wouldn't say analog volume controls are common at all anymore.  

Quick volume control is nice, though - and this is why I typically use the up/down buttons of a C4 keypad to handle volume control when the room is playing audio.

[ejn1]

40 minutes ago, Andrew luecke said:

A modern alternative to analog knobs would be configurable keypads linked to the volume. And multiple amps

 

13 minutes ago, LollerAgent said:

I wouldn't say analog volume controls are common at all anymore.  

Quick volume control is nice, though - and this is why I typically use the up/down buttons of a C4 keypad to handle volume control when the room is playing audio.

 

Thanks,  I was thinking this would be the only replacement to analog as not having anything potentially creates a gap, to put keypads in every room with some dedicated media buttons... 

[Control4Savant]

2 hours ago, ejn1 said:

Hi all,

Just curious, for new installs are folks installing an analog inwall volume control in rooms with distributed audio or are you direct wiring to speakers and just using digital volume control from keypads or apps?  I see the benefit of inwall control being a quick turn down or muting but then it adds something in the signal path and another element into the wiring.

Kudos to C4 on their OS3 audio interface (not so new i know)....  combined with a C4 input switcher and any multiroom amp creates a great user experience.   I havent felt the need to reach for Sonos or my Auralic streamers in secondary rooms yet, the C4 experience has been great.    

I dont even run home run speaker wire to my speaker locations anymore lol just CatX… but thats not for C4. 

[Andrew luecke]

6 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

I dont even run home run speaker wire to my speaker locations anymore lol just CatX… but thats not for C4. 

Just wondering what you do instead?

[ejn1]

13 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

I dont even run home run speaker wire to my speaker locations anymore lol just CatX… but thats not for C4. 

do you use some sort of baluns?

[Control4Savant]

9 minutes ago, Andrew luecke said:

Just wondering what you do instead?

 My new Savant systems are AVB… so distribution is usually a large bank Netgear Pro or Extream Networks switch and 2/4 POE powered BMR style aperture speakers per zone. + wireless WISA 9ch systems and POE powered ABV transmitters/receivers for rack or other local sources or outputs. 

[Andrew luecke]

1 hour ago, Control4Savant said:

 My new Savant systems are AVB… so distribution is usually a large bank Netgear Pro or Extream Networks switch and 2/4 POE powered BMR style aperture speakers per zone. + wireless WISA 9ch systems and POE powered ABV transmitters/receivers for rack or other local sources or outputs. 

I've only heard about it.. But wouldn't those be only 30W? Or are they POE++?

[Cyknight]

6 hours ago, ejn1 said:

my home was wired 12 years ago so I have them... Occasionally they are used by folks who want to make a quick change in volume and not log into the app or go the touchscreen.   I can splice the speaker cable and take them out of the loop but haven't done it yet.     Mine also loop through my Russound which auto mutes the music when the intercom comes on.

Even 12 years ago that was old school - and you're asking about now.

[ejn1]

54 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Even 12 years ago that was old school - and you're asking about now.

So how are you doing it?  Keypad volume control in each room?

[Control4Savant]

4 hours ago, Andrew luecke said:

I've only heard about it.. But wouldn't those be only 30W? Or are they POE++?

Yeah, type 3 POE++ 

[Control4Savant]

27 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

So how are you doing it?  Keypad volume control in each room?

Yeah 

[TundraSonic]

As an old guy and former audio engineer... I miss the ease and quickness of physical knobs. In our old house the gain was very predictable and I could easily and quickly adjust it with a rotary knob. I knew what 11 o'clock was or 2 o'clock or whatever and could quickly and easily make adjustments. The up/down arrows on C4 (or similar) keypads are exceptionally slow (and a PITA) comparatively. 

This is why digital studios or live systems all still have physical desks with physical rotary or slider knobs - easy, quick and predictable.

There's a similar issue with Tesla. In my truck I can make adjustments to the HVAC system or other things without looking or only a quick glance. With the Tesla display I have to look away from the road for a longer period. This was made worse about 3 years ago when they moved many of the controls from the top to the bottom of the display. Changing air circulation for instance is an easily locatable physical button in my truck. In my Tesla I have to look down to locate the HVAC button, press that, then look down again to locate the circ button and press that and sometimes a third look down. There are some great bits to the Tesla display but some things are much easier and safer with physical buttons.

[ekohn00]

This thread has me thinking........

I also have the old analog volume controls in every room. If I removed then and wired a 3 button switch, can you program a button to join the audio selection of a specific room? Typically my wife would stream something in the kitchen, and add rooms....but this would also be a benefit if she wants to just add a room from the room, I'm also looking for a reason for the 3rd button.

other ideas from anyone who's done this are welcome.  FWIW, we either stream Apple Music or use the SiriusXM or Pandora Apps.

thanks.

[LollerAgent]

1 hour ago, TundraSonic said:

There are some great bits to the Tesla display but some things are much easier and safer with physical buttons.

You mean like remotes?

I feel the same about the Neeo - although, I must admit, they are growing on me.

[LollerAgent]

12 minutes ago, ekohn00 said:

This thread has me thinking........

I also have the old analog volume controls in every room. If I removed then and wired a 3 button switch, can you program a button to join the audio selection of a specific room? Typically my wife would stream something in the kitchen, and add rooms....but this would also be a benefit if she wants to just add a room from the room, I'm also looking for a reason for the 3rd button.

other ideas from anyone who's done this are welcome.  FWIW, we either stream Apple Music or use the SiriusXM or Pandora Apps.

thanks.

Sure - the Room Control driver is the easiest way to join other rooms.

I do this is my home.  If I'm playing music in my master bath for example, I can double tap the "Music" button in my master bedroom and it will join the master bathroom session.  Same with kitchen/keeping room/dining room/etc.

[RAV]

46 minutes ago, ekohn00 said:

This thread has me thinking........

I also have the old analog volume controls in every room. If I removed then and wired a 3 button switch, can you program a button to join the audio selection of a specific room? Typically my wife would stream something in the kitchen, and add rooms....but this would also be a benefit if she wants to just add a room from the room, I'm also looking for a reason for the 3rd button.

other ideas from anyone who's done this are welcome.  FWIW, we either stream Apple Music or use the SiriusXM or Pandora Apps.

thanks.

Popular feature.

Music button - if room off, and x room is on, join that, if x room is off, then preset a. If room on, then preset b.
X room is based on proximity to activating room.

[RAV]

There was a time this all happened to car stereo.
During the analog to digital days they went to up down volume buttons, then realized a knob as was quicker, safer and easier.

And yeah, my Ford truck is the first vehicle that really got the climate right. Speed knob, Cool/Hot knob, and three individual buttons for where that can be chosen in any combo. Hate the Toyota with it's temperature, and up down buttons for speed and cycling through where, pita.

[ejn1]

one thing not mentioned yet...  If not mistaken, in general analog attenuation preserves sound quality better than digital...  When reducing volume via a digital volume control, some sort of bit reduction takes place thus flattening the sound.   The greater the volume reduction, the more the quality degrades.   Maybe not as big of a deal with cheap in ceiling speakers but the more you spend, the more it may come into your thought process.

[ejn1]

3 hours ago, TundraSonic said:

As an old guy and former audio engineer... I miss the ease and quickness of physical knobs. In our old house the gain was very predictable and I could easily and quickly adjust it with a rotary knob. I knew what 11 o'clock was or 2 o'clock or whatever and could quickly and easily make adjustments. The up/down arrows on C4 (or similar) keypads are exceptionally slow (and a PITA) comparatively. 

This is why digital studios or live systems all still have physical desks with physical rotary or slider knobs - easy, quick and predictable.

There's a similar issue with Tesla. In my truck I can make adjustments to the HVAC system or other things without looking or only a quick glance. With the Tesla display I have to look away from the road for a longer period. This was made worse about 3 years ago when they moved many of the controls from the top to the bottom of the display. Changing air circulation for instance is an easily locatable physical button in my truck. In my Tesla I have to look down to locate the HVAC button, press that, then look down again to locate the circ button and press that and sometimes a third look down. There are some great bits to the Tesla display but some things are much easier and safer with physical buttons.

This is why added this to my desktop audio system for my PC... It's a headphone and USB DAC with a nice large volume control and connected to a pair of Genelec powered speakers.  I prefer the dial to using the keyboard buttons to control volume.