Integrators; Whats your go to "standard" network setup?

[Control4Savant]

13 hours ago, therockhr said:

Anyone using edgerouter x and edge switch from ubiquiti? I see lots of people mention unifi but not always those products. Those seem more like what I want since I don’t want all the features of the UDM Pro. 

There are a few different ways to go about using Unifi stuff without a cloud key, UDM etc… just for common knowledge. There also used to be a preference for Edge gear since it didnt carry the processing overhead but we have surpassed that issue long ago. 

[bmdmike]

Edgemax Gear has its own controller called UISP but is in no relation to the Unifi Ecosystem.  The nice thing about Edgemax is the controller isn't required.

[Control4Savant]

27 minutes ago, bmdmike said:

Edgemax Gear has its own controller called UISP but is in no relation to the Unifi Ecosystem.  The nice thing about Edgemax is the controller isn't required.

A controller is not required for Unifi gear …. to be clear.

[Cyknight]

Well - a constantly up and running controller isn't required - you need to use a laptop as a temporary 'controller' to do anything in unifi - vs the devices having a full web/browser based interface

[Cyknight]

12 hours ago, lippavisual said:

Nothing wrong with them at all. 

Is the PIM issue fixed in the EdgeSwitches then? I believe that was the reason those specific pieces were on the do not use list for some time (they don't really have such a list anymore).

It may well be cleared mind you, I'm genuinely asking

[Control4Savant]

16 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

Well - a constantly up and running controller isn't required - you need to use a laptop as a temporary 'controller' to do anything in unifi - vs the devices having a full web/browser based interface

Well..you can also just use the unifi app for cloud or local device set up. Mostly I just SSH adopt my sites to my self hosted server which is what I know a lot of more advanced Unifi “pros” are doing.  

[Andrew luecke]

2 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Is the PIM issue fixed in the EdgeSwitches then? I believe that was the reason those specific pieces were on the do not use list for some time (they don't really have such a list anymore).

It may well be cleared mind you, I'm genuinely asking

PIM isn't important for most people.. And it affects Unifi equipment too. One person in particular interpreted the meaning of it incorrectly, and was very vocal about it (in fact, he was not only the first good hit about it by the end, but he literally started self-referencing his own post eventually). 

To be clear, it only really affects stuff like SSDP between VLAN's. Using a static IP fixes that issue. Control4 was right to put it on the DO NOT USE List  (as they need to ensure their recommendations support everything), but the handful of people making the most noise at the time, I don't believe actually understood what PIM is used for (they seemed to believe it meant broadcasting / multicasting was broken entirely, which is NOT the case. In fact, the issue had 0% chance of affecting most C4 installs)

 

In regards to using a controller, network management is important, and since its built into UDM's, it makes sense. If you're going to use ubiquiti, you'll save yourself some headaches with a udm

Also, Edge Switches are designed for a different market segment. Unifi is the better option for home users imho. 

Finally, imho, I wouldn't use Mikrotik in a home environment. They're great units, but, they're designed for experts and specialised applications. If you need support from the C4 community, lots of installers and users would have trouble, and lots of things that is quick on Unifi or other systems, takes more effort on Mikrotik (and the average end user will likely not even know what most of the options are). 

Mikrotik is hugely powerful, and supports things like bgp cheaply. But, your average user has no need for things like this. Whereas, products like unifi are very fast to configure, centrally managed, and its very easy to work out whats happening in the network. 

 

In the grand scheme of things, the price difference isn't much.. 

[Andrew luecke]

I'll also add. if you do go Ubiquiti, remote management in your case won't make sense (it makes sense for installers, because they generally run 1 VPS server for hundreds of locations and provide access to different locations to users). UDM however doesn't benefit from this at all 

[lippavisual]

8 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Is the PIM issue fixed in the EdgeSwitches then? I believe that was the reason those specific pieces were on the do not use list for some time (they don't really have such a list anymore).

It may well be cleared mind you, I'm genuinely asking

I’ve never encountered the issue as I always statically assign my control system devices.

[LollerAgent]

On 3/6/2023 at 4:19 PM, oosername said:

I think we need to tighten up our definitions here a little bit. All switches operate at Layer 2 using MAC Addresses. 

A Layer 3 Switch, works on both Layer 2 and Layer 3. Layer 3 of course is Routing. L3 Switches work with IP Addresses themselves.

A L3 Switch isn't doing anything different with L2 traffic than a L2 managed switch does.  That's why Araknis uses the same manual for the L2 210 and the L3 310. Or they're just lazy.

A Managed L2 Switch then, is exactly that. There are no Almost-Managed L2 Switches. Some have better or worse features of course.

The advantage to L3 is speed. There are some things you can do with L2 of course. Although if you're router --> managed switch --> unmanaged, there's only so much you can do.

I wouldn't say the advantage of L3 switches is speed (or that they are faster) -- although they often have beefier ASIC/CPUs because they have to do more.

The advantage of L3 (Layer 3) capable switches are that they support IP routing -- inner VLAN routing (routing between VLANs), some type of dynamic routing protocol like OSPF, etc.  In home or SMB environments, routing is typically handled by a dedicated router.  A "managed" Layer2 switch (that supports VLANs, etc) with a trunk to a router is a common configuration.

[LollerAgent]

8 hours ago, Andrew luecke said:

Finally, imho, I wouldn't use Mikrotik in a home environment. They're great units, but, they're designed for experts and specialised applications. If you need support from the C4 community, lots of installers and users would have trouble, and lots of things that is quick on Unifi or other systems, takes more effort on Mikrotik (and the average end user will likely not even know what most of the options are). 

Mikrotik is hugely powerful, and supports things like bgp cheaply. But, your average user has no need for things like this. Whereas, products like unifi are very fast to configure, centrally managed, and its very easy to work out whats happening in the network. 

Mikrotik is *perfectly* suitable for home if you know how to use it.  If not, like you said, you shouldn't use it. 

I can drop a configuration on a Mikrotik router that supports multiple VLANs, etc 10x quicker than I can provision and configure Unifi routers and switches.  To each their own.

[GregCAMS]

On 3/1/2023 at 12:27 PM, Gary Leeds UK said:

Wireless AP is ruckus ~ had it now for over a year Zero issues 

what router do you use/recommend?  I've had repeated lockup issues with my Araknis router.  The experience wasn't much better with Ubiquiti system either

[msgreenf]

29 minutes ago, gregheard said:

what router do you use/recommend?  I've had repeated lockup issues with my Araknis router.  The experience wasn't much better with Ubiquiti system either

Which model? Is firmware current? 

[GregCAMS]

10 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Which model? Is firmware current? 

Araknis AN-310-RT-4L2W.  I am not 100% sure if firmware is updated but the integrator was here last month doing updates.  This has been an 8 month issue with router lockups 1-2 times per month.  about 30% of the time I can get it to reset on OvrC Home but the other 70% it is not available to be reset and have to physically unplug the router, wait 5 minutes, plug in, and wait 30-45 minutes for everything to come back online.  They had system reboots scheduled in the past (1 - 4 times per week) and that just locked the system up more often.  Now no scheduled reboots and still goes down about every 6 weeks with the unplugging and plugging back in of the router the only solution.  This is the 3rd Araknis router in 5 years.

[msgreenf]

You should not have that prob. Login and report the fw version 

[GregCAMS]

2 hours ago, msgreenf said:

You should not have that prob. Login and report the fw version 

will await what integrator comes back with - i have no idea how to login to get that info. Even still they stated they update it regularly and an update is only borrowed time of something else that seems to be afoot in having this recurring problem

[Andrew luecke]

4 hours ago, gregheard said:

what router do you use/recommend?  I've had repeated lockup issues with my Araknis router.  The experience wasn't much better with Ubiquiti system either

If you're having that issue with ubiquiti too, it's likely something else. Do you have sky or sonos? What network switch model/brand are you using?

[GregCAMS]

34 minutes ago, Andrew luecke said:

If you're having that issue with ubiquiti too, it's likely something else. Do you have sky or sonos? What network switch model/brand are you using?

Just got off phone with them and stated the firmware was updated during their last visit while doing some other C4 updates.  The modem is Arris, the router is Araknis detailed prior and all switches are Araknis.  They are coming by next week along with a rep from Access Networks to evaluate the system and provide recommendations since the rep will be in town.  I have neither Sky nor Sonos

[Andrew luecke]

24 minutes ago, gregheard said:

Just got off phone with them and stated the firmware was updated during their last visit while doing some other C4 updates.  The modem is Arris, the router is Araknis detailed prior and all switches are Araknis.  They are coming by next week along with a rep from Access Networks to evaluate the system and provide recommendations since the rep will be in town.  I have neither Sky nor Sonos

I'd argue it's more likely a network issue. I also saw an issue here with VDSL where I realised the phone line itself was faulty and dropping out during rain

[Gary Leeds UK]

On 4/27/2023 at 3:59 PM, gregheard said:

what router do you use/recommend?  I've had repeated lockup issues with my Araknis router.  The experience wasn't much better with Ubiquiti system either

We have the standard router from our internet supplier ~however all wireless go thought the Ruckus 

[Topspin14m]

On 4/27/2023 at 4:14 PM, gregheard said:

Just got off phone with them and stated the firmware was updated during their last visit while doing some other C4 updates.  The modem is Arris, the router is Araknis detailed prior and all switches are Araknis.  They are coming by next week along with a rep from Access Networks to evaluate the system and provide recommendations since the rep will be in town.  I have neither Sky nor Sonos

Do you use Sonos?

[Topspin14m]

My dealer originally installed Packedge switches and a router.  For wifi, I temporarily kept an orbi system I had hardwired (not in mesh) while Wifi 6e enterprise grade devices rolled out.  Originally, I was going to go with Rukus, but he recommended Unifi Wifi 6e APs and I couldn't be happier.  I've actually started just switching all the Packedge stuff out for Unifi.  That said, I like to tinker, I love the data interface, and I like to have some degree of control over my own network (I value having a professional to help me when and if I get stuck, but I also like getting my own hands dirty).  I think the value to Ruckus is really 'set it and forget it' and remote management.  The average person hiring a C4 dealer doesn't want any part of networking and they just want to hand it over to someone else.  I get that Unifi is probably not the best product for them.  

[GregCAMS]

15 hours ago, Topspin14m said:

Do you use Sonos?

No