Cyknight Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 5 hours ago, zaphod said: Again - what about for controlling the PS4? Didn't you say this a couple of weeks ago about the IrUSB: So why wouldn't it be useful to be able to control a PS4? Or a Shield without an IrUSB? Or a PC? Because you cannot support every possible stack out there. Sony WILL NOT allow the PS4 unless oficially licensed for example - why do you think it took YEARS for Harmony to get a device and even then it took a 3rd party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 They don’t implement Bluetooth in Controlers Zaphod, same resaon they don’t implement IR blasters in their remotes - because it is a bloody good practical and useful idea! And bloody good ideas never seem get implemented in Control4 because a lot of dealers think they have all the answers, think the platform is perfect (particularly IP control) - but don’t necessarily actually live with the platform 24/7 and *really* put it thru it’s paces in the rough and tumble of the everyday “modern family”, Or give it to a wife and a bunch of daughters to operate. Or a kid playing on a PS4. By living with the platform I mean using it the *exact same way* a home user would without .... (saying the obvious)... Also there seems almost an obsessive belief in IP control- that somehow it’s perfect. Or that an IP driver is “coming”. Backup plans like IR and Bluetooth control of devices that will never be IP controllable (for reasons stated), or for use when IP control fails, just get left flapping in the breeze to be somehow miraculous “sorrted” by enthusiasts or dedicated dealers or third parties - all at their own expense. These “sorting out problems when IP doesn’t work or there is no IP or IR driver expenses” of course get passed down the chain to the end user in dealer time charges, or even the dealer themselves if they have a fix contract. And even *if* dealers got feedback from the likes of you that Bluetooth would be awesome, or believed in their heart of hearts as well that it would be useful - there is no feedback channel from dealers or from here back to C4central to make change happen. That has now been confirmed on this forum. That is pretty sad. W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 What?? Most, if not all, dealers certainly have a system in their own homes that range from big to small. We use these systems everyday, just like our customers do. IR blaster on an RF remote is just plain stupid if you ask me. That brings in the whole realm of having to point the remote at certain device, but don't have to at other devices. Just brings confusion. I also see no need for BT at all. The very few devices you're talking about are all capable of IP control. It's the manufacturers that has blocked/locked integration capabilities, NOT C4. So that's where the blame needs to be pointed at, not C4. msgreenf and THawes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 ^ Sure but you have the knowledge and ability to sort problems on the fly. Late at night or on a weekend. Customers don’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 ^ And using the excuse that it’s other manufactures blocking integration is also a lame excuse. That’s life. They will always do that. If Control4s motis operandi is to “control” things then that’s Control4’s problem - so give the platform *any* alternative (like Bluetooth) to make that happen. Who cares what the solutions are to get users out of tricky sticking points. Just do it. W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 ^ Sure but you have the knowledge and ability to sort problems on the fly. Late at night or on a weekend. Customers don’t. What does that even mean? Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, msgreenf said: What does that even mean? Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk It means the ability to not wake you up at 3am when the IP control goes down or the delinquent kid can’t turn on his Game Station or any other myriad of other countless random events that pop up in everyone’s “normal” lives. Life ain’t always a happy singing church choir on a hill somewhere in SLC Utah. I’m definitely done here. It’s become near on impossible to pass back any useful feedback. I’ve got better things to do Happy New Year all W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 40 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: there is no feedback channel from dealers or from here back to C4central to make change happen. That has now been confirmed on this forum. Errr. WTF are you talking about. 13 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: And using the excuse that it’s other manufactures blocking integration is also a lame excuse. Yes, we really should just hack everything right? When 99% of things that have Bluetooth ALSO have IR or IP or serial, or any combination of some or all. 43 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: Also there seems almost an obsessive belief in IP control- that somehow it’s perfect By C4 you mean? er....again you are really just pulling crap out of thin air 43 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: actually live with the platform 24/7 and *really* put it thru it’s paces in the rough and tumble of the everyday “modern family”, Or give it to a wife and a bunch of daughters to operate. Or a kid playing on a PS4. My one daughter is watching TV right now, My son is playing PS4. I', listening to music, my wife is as well elsewhere in the house. My other kid isn't using the 'system' right now, other than turning the lights on from her tablet to play in the basement. Stop assuming and accusing WAP. 47 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: because it is a bloody good practical and useful idea! Based on what WAP? 2 minutes ago, wappinghigh said: It’s become near on impossible to pass back any useful feedback. I’ve got better things to do Feel free to pass on USEFUL information WAP. Drunken rants on Hollywood, HDMI and unsubstantiated and referenced assumptions and accusation however are neither 'feedback' nor 'useful' Home Theater Advisors 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Not to mention almost every driver based on a hack method not a public api breaks Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk THawes and sonic30101 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THawes Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 45 minutes ago, msgreenf said: Not to mention almost every driver based on a hack method not a public api breaks Which we have seen at least a couple of times that I can think of. Sure it's nice while they work, until they don't work... then you're stuck. I am constantly trying new drivers and devices in my system to stay on top of things. My system is solid and IP drivers don't just "stop" working. I don't know what kind of networks people have out there that have had such poor luck with IP control. But to me, that's a poor network design or implementation that is causing the issues, and needs to be addressed. DO IP drivers solve every problem? No. Is it nice when an IP driver is available over IR or Serial? Sure. I'm not seeing the huge draw for control of game consoles, either. Maybe for DVD/Blu-ray control but that's it? It's a game console, that's why it has a game controller with it. If you want "rock solid" control for video playback, buy a dedicated player for that particular media. Otherwise, complaints need to be made to the manufacturers of these devices (Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, etc.).This is not a Control4 problem, they have no control (no pun intended) over what these console manufacturers do or don't want to allow. EDIT: And long ago I thought IR capabilities on the remotes might be nice, but that just introduces too many variables. Using your phone or tablet to control the room? Out of luck. Didn't point the remote perfectly at a picky device? Out of luck. The list goes on. Wattsup, wappinghigh and msgreenf 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, THawes said: I'm not seeing the huge draw for control of game consoles, either. Maybe for DVD/Blu-ray control but that's it? It's a game console, that's why it has a game controller with it. Agreed - it would be NICE but it doesn't make the priority list. No less eager to try out the new harmony piece/PDP piece for PS4 though - biggest thing is power on/off control (and then primarily power off so kids don't leave things on). Also agree fully that the compaint there is to the manufacturer - while yes C4's goal is to have as many options as they can, closed systems aren't C4's responsibility open. Unless it's Hollywood 19 minutes ago, THawes said: IP drivers don't just "stop" working Again agreed - I've just seen poor implementation on the DEVICES, primarily on receivers. That said the reason I prefer serial when/if available for 3rd party devices (when reasonable - ie video switches or receivers) is because it DOESN'T rely on networking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Can you imagine the frustration that onboard IR would bring? Remember, when you select the Blu-ray player you have to make sure the remote is pointing over here. Oh crap, it wasn’t and now everything required to watch a Blu-ray is on BUT the Blu-ray player. Then everything is forever out of whack. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted January 6, 2018 Author Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, ILoveC4 said: Can you imagine the frustration that onboard IR would bring? Remember, when you select the Blu-ray player you have to make sure the remote is pointing over here. Oh crap, it wasn’t and now everything required to watch a Blu-ray is on BUT the Blu-ray player. Then everything is forever out of whack. But to be honest, that's what people are used to. 90%+ of remotes that people use are IR and require LoS. I bet that a lot of C4 users point there remotes at the TV when they use it, thinking that they need LoS. annex⁴ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 But to be honest, that's what people are used to. 90%+ of remotes that people use are IR and require LoS. I bet that a lot of C4 users point there remotes at the TV when they use it, thinking that they need LoS.Right...until you don’t. Which doesn’t take long. It would be a frustrating nightmare. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod Posted January 6, 2018 Author Share Posted January 6, 2018 Most of my TVs still use Harmony remotes. For a few years they are all hub based Harmony remotes so that you don't need LoS (the remote communicates to the hub with RF and the hub blasts out IR or BlueTooth) - but my wife and many other people who use them in our house still point them towards the components. annex⁴ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 hours ago, zaphod said: But to be honest, that's what people are used to. 90%+ of remotes that people use are IR and require LoS. I bet that a lot of C4 users point there remotes at the TV when they use it, thinking that they need LoS. You would lose that bet if you change the text to 'a lot of C4 users after a few months'. You'd be surprised how quickly people 'forget' that habit. And this will be true ten times over for younger generations. My kids have no idea what 'point the remote' means. REALLY they don't. msgreenf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Can't we just end this thread now? Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk sonic30101 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 It's so weird when I use an IR remote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Only thing that is worse is when you go to someone's house and they have 4 remotes on the coffee table doing the circus juggle. I just walk away, cause I can't watch the nonsense. Especially when they have an AVR too and have to leave the cabinet open lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destroyer of Worlds Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Chiming in (no pun intended) 2.5 years later we have Bluetooth 5.0 transmitters and receivers. Use cases: portable bluetooth speakers, bluetooth headphones, playing music from C4 on my phone, etc. I'm thinking of one of those TaoTronics BT 5.0 transmit/receive models that has Ethernet, Optical in, and 3.5mm inputs. * Suspect that it needs to be plugged into EA-5 or audio matrix optical out and then gives bluetooth range from there * Would be wonderful if it could connect from ethernet port in another room but I'm dubious about the networking (e.g., it would get an IP but no way to push music to it) * Then again I have a roof deck above my C4 rack that would be in range with wireless speakers configured depending on how we use the deck (dinners, lounging) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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