Got an estimate for my system upgrade, where can I trim the fat?

[Pounce]

22 minutes ago, pinkoos said:

I do have whole house audio - speakers in ceilings in multiple rooms.  The audio from the sources output to those speakers.

I have Comcast cable, but don't use their boxes - instead use two Tivo boxes distributed to all the TVs in the house.  I actually held off on the Xfinity boxes b/c of the problems using them with my original matrix.  That's why I stuck with the Tivos but may consider dumping the Tivos and using the Comcast boxes if I upgrade my matrix.

We use Netflix via an Apple TV and Amazon Prime Video via a Roku that is locally connected to just one TV.

If you feel you could live without a DVR and go with streaming everything then you could probably get away without a video matrix. That could drop 6k. You could try without a matrix and add it later if it didn't work out. 

[lippavisual]

Going IP streaming via Videostorm Netplay would be much cheaper than that.

Do you have CAT cables at all TV locations??  Do you already have an audio matrix??

[lippavisual]

Can't really comment on the networking.  I only use the Araknis switches because they are nice and you can't beat OVrC.  Never tried their routers or waps.

[Cyknight]

Your not going to find anything that much cheaper that will work well than HikVision

Araknis gear is fairly reasonably priced, though yes the access points seems a bit high. Again  I will point out that UBQT is on the do not use list. Not saying don't use ut, but you will find that dealers will generally follow that list.

 

IMHO, if you choose to replace gear in this list to save any worthwile amount of money, you're going to be doing so by sacrificing quality

[pinkoos]

1 hour ago, eggzlot said:

Get 2-3 quotes to compare.  Ask about service and warranty.  Personally I wouldn’t nickel and dime much in this space.  If you don’t need rewiring and you want to hand pick hardware maybe find a remote dealer here.  Maybe 1-2 with different skills or product knowledge to help.  Your local guy likely has a line or two of products he sells and supports.  He cannot support every WAP on the market or every matrix.  If you don’t like his set up keep shopping.  Or just ask for certain % or something off the total invoice and negotiate the full price vs swapping your own selected gear in and out.  Offer to pay cash for a lower price etc 

whats his labor?  Is he running wire because wire not his time are free.  If you have an old house with stone walls running wire is awful.  Small attic?  No drop ceilings etc.  if any of that work needs to be done that explains labor costs 

I don't think he needs to run any wire unless I decide to add those two extra cameras, or maybe he needs to either run some or tap into some for the WAPs?

[pinkoos]

1 hour ago, Pounce said:

If you feel you could live without a DVR and go with streaming everything then you could probably get away without a video matrix. That could drop 6k. You could try without a matrix and add it later if it didn't work out. 

Would definitely need a DVR

[pinkoos]

1 hour ago, lippavisual said:

Going IP streaming via Videostorm Netplay would be much cheaper than that.

Do you have CAT cables at all TV locations??  Do you already have an audio matrix??

I'm not familiar with that, what is Netplay?

Yes, multiple CAT5e at each TV

The current matrix is an AV matrix I believe.

[Pounce]

1 minute ago, pinkoos said:

Would definitely need a DVR

Curious what you DVR that isn't available through streaming and subscription.

 

Just now, pinkoos said:

I'm not familiar with that, what is Netplay?

http://www.video-storm.com/

Virtual matrix.

[Brownbatsbreath]

I was gonna say what Pounce said about dumping the video matrix all together. 

Would be a change from your current set up, but for what you’d save in $$$ I think the wife would be willing to adapt. 

[rea]

I have the same question as Pounce with regards to the video Matrix. How many sources do you plan on having at the matrix and how many TVs for output do you plan on feeding?

I've got 3 video locations in my house and thought the video matrix was overkill for me. I just went with local streaming boxes (Rokus) and local Cable/Sat boxes (I have the Dish Hopper in the AV rack and it feeds all the other boxes standard without the need for a matrix; pretty sure most modern cable boxes have "whole-home DVR"). This seems to work great and not sure what a video matrix would've made different in my situation--other than parting with a lot more cash.  

Given nearly every new TV has at least 3 HDMI inputs, unless you plan on utilizing a ton of sources or very expensive ones, that video matrix would certainly be a big item to target on your budget as to whether you really need it or not. 

[eggzlot]

2 hours ago, pinkoos said:

I don't think he needs to run any wire unless I decide to add those two extra cameras, or maybe he needs to either run some or tap into some for the WAPs?

Each WAP needs an Ethernet cable.  They are usually PoE for cleanest install with an injector at switch or just a PoE switch. 

By me most trades people get 80/hr up to 125/hr based on skill and title.  Depending on your house to run a few wires could be 2 hours or 5 hours.  No way to know.  Plus the cost of wires.  Are they doing any cleaning up to your existing wiring?  Maybe ask for those types of services for that price.  

Changing gear to unsupported gear isn’t optimal in my view.  Leave off gear.  Or negotiate the price or extra services (fixing old wires, 1-2 free OS upgrades down the line, a free 6 month walk thru-check up, etc)

[SY3]

3 hours ago, Cyknight said:

Your not going to find anything that much cheaper that will work well than HikVision

Araknis gear is fairly reasonably priced, though yes the access points seems a bit high. Again  I will point out that UBQT is on the do not use list. Not saying don't use ut, but you will find that dealers will generally follow that list.

 

IMHO, if you choose to replace gear in this list to save any worthwile amount of money, you're going to be doing so by sacrificing quality

Be interested to see the “do not use list”. I’ve been using UBNT for the past 3 yrs without any issues but I’m sure there’s a reason. 

[pinkoos]

2 hours ago, Pounce said:

Curious what you DVR that isn't available through streaming and subscription.

 

http://www.video-storm.com/

Virtual matrix.

We DVR pretty much everything...only stuff we really watch live is sports.  I haven't really looked into if we could replace our cable TV service with streaming services b/c it seems to always work out that we pay more if we just want cable internet and not the TV package.

[pinkoos]

2 hours ago, Brownbatsbreath said:

I was gonna say what Pounce said about dumping the video matrix all together. 

Would be a change from your current set up, but for what you’d save in $$$ I think the wife would be willing to adapt. 

The thing we like about C4 (if we look beyond the constant frustrations) is the distributed video, so I think we would need to keep the matrix.  Otherwise, we might as well pull out the entire system, right?  Trying to have local sources at each TV (cable box, Apple TV, Blu-ray, Roku, possibly others) doesn't make sense.

[pinkoos]

2 hours ago, rea said:

I have the same question as Pounce with regards to the video Matrix. How many sources do you plan on having at the matrix and how many TVs for output do you plan on feeding?

I've got 3 video locations in my house and thought the video matrix was overkill for me. I just went with local streaming boxes (Rokus) and local Cable/Sat boxes (I have the Dish Hopper in the AV rack and it feeds all the other boxes standard without the need for a matrix; pretty sure most modern cable boxes have "whole-home DVR"). This seems to work great and not sure what a video matrix would've made different in my situation--other than parting with a lot more cash.  

Given nearly every new TV has at least 3 HDMI inputs, unless you plan on utilizing a ton of sources or very expensive ones, that video matrix would certainly be a big item to target on your budget as to whether you really need it or not. 

We have:

Tivo XL

Tivo Premiere

Apple TV

Blu-Ray player

One local Roku attached to a single TV

One local Blu-Ray attached to a single TV

One local Xbox One attached to a single TV

We output everything (except for the local devices) to 4 TVs and am considering adding one more TV in another room that was prewired at the time of original installation 8 years ago.

So, if one gets rid of the matrix and attaches multiple sources locally to each TV, how does one control all these devices?  Still with the Control4 remote?  Or something like a Harmony?  I think I'm getting confused.

[pinkoos]

1 hour ago, eggzlot said:

Each WAP needs an Ethernet cable.  They are usually PoE for cleanest install with an injector at switch or just a PoE switch. 

By me most trades people get 80/hr up to 125/hr based on skill and title.  Depending on your house to run a few wires could be 2 hours or 5 hours.  No way to know.  Plus the cost of wires.  Are they doing any cleaning up to your existing wiring?  Maybe ask for those types of services for that price.  

Changing gear to unsupported gear isn’t optimal in my view.  Leave off gear.  Or negotiate the price or extra services (fixing old wires, 1-2 free OS upgrades down the line, a free 6 month walk thru-check up, etc)

I guess that's why he included a new switch with PoE in his quote.  Must be for the WAPs.

[rea]

21 minutes ago, pinkoos said:

We have:

Tivo XL

Tivo Premiere

Apple TV

Blu-Ray player

One local Roku attached to a single TV

One local Blu-Ray attached to a single TV

One local Xbox One attached to a single TV

We output everything (except for the local devices) to 4 TVs and am considering adding one more TV in another room that was prewired at the time of original installation 8 years ago.

So, if one gets rid of the matrix and attaches multiple sources locally to each TV, how does one control all these devices?  Still with the Control4 remote?  Or something like a Harmony?  I think I'm getting confused.

I'll admit that I'm less familiar with how Tivo does whole-house, but I have an EA-1 at 2 TVs with the EA-5 in the theater room with the rack. I have the Dish Joeys (auxiliary boxes) at the 2 non-theater TVs with the main DVR in the AV rack and have a Roku at each (and an Xbox One at one of them). With an EA-1 and correct programming, you and the family shouldn't notice any difference in how you interact at these areas--you'll just be using local sources and your SR260 will control it.

Not sure how many of your 4 or 5 TVs would need all that content though. Based on what you have, it doesn't sound like you plan on doing 4 or 5 multiple streams/feeds at once(?). For example, I've got a couple "non-essential" TVs in the guest room and exercise room where I just use a Harmony/factory remote and a local streaming box--no need to spend the money on an EA-1 there for me. You can buy a lot of Rokus and Apple TVs for the price of a $6k video matrix.  

[eggzlot]

34 minutes ago, pinkoos said:

I guess that's why he included a new switch with PoE in his quote.  Must be for the WAPs.

Aren’t you updating cameras?  If IP those need the PoE switch too

[Blaise]

Not to name names, but this looks like a company that rhymes with trayveon :)

They are a good company, did my install. Definitely not the cheapest, but very professional and thorough - they will get the job done and in the end it will work the way you want it to. Support is very good as well, if it's not working the way you expect it to, they will come out and fix it and won't charge you for it.

[Pounce]

42 minutes ago, pinkoos said:

We DVR pretty much everything...only stuff we really watch live is sports.  I haven't really looked into if we could replace our cable TV service with streaming services b/c it seems to always work out that we pay more if we just want cable internet and not the TV package.

If you switch from a DVR you may realize that streaming offers better resolution and choices. You no longer have to wait for shows to record. They are simply available. You also get 4k. I'm fairly certain you can capture most of the shows that interest you on some streaming service. While it may seem that the package is cheaper with adding TV it's really not most of the time. I actually recommend getting business class cable internet over consumer. Same service essentially, but the equipment is often different and better and the SLA for fixing outages etc is much shorter. You also tend to get unlimited service and no data throttling.

44 minutes ago, pinkoos said:

The thing we like about C4 (if we look beyond the constant frustrations) is the distributed video, so I think we would need to keep the matrix.  Otherwise, we might as well pull out the entire system, right?  Trying to have local sources at each TV (cable box, Apple TV, Blu-ray, Roku, possibly others) doesn't make sense.

Well, if you eliminate cable TV you don't need the cable box. If you have Fire TV or nVidia Shield you get Netflix (4k), Amazon (4k) and just about every other streaming service plus apps to play local files and  OTA HD TV using something like Silicon Dusk HDhomerun. Plus, if you still want to add a matrix if you have those local boxes you can add something like Video Storm and add a cable box, DVR, Apple TV, Bluray etc in a distributed way. Not to complicate your choices. If you consider that distributed video is costing you 6k and you want to look into cutting costs this is the easiest way. 

 

45 minutes ago, pinkoos said:

So, if one gets rid of the matrix and attaches multiple sources locally to each TV, how does one control all these devices?  Still with the Control4 remote?  Or something like a Harmony?  I think I'm getting confused.

You can control all of them with Control4 if that is your desire.

[pinkoos]

25 minutes ago, rea said:

I'll admit that I'm less familiar with how Tivo does whole-house, but I have an EA-1 at 2 TVs with the EA-5 in the theater room with the rack. I have the Dish Joeys (auxiliary boxes) at the 2 non-theater TVs with the main DVR in the AV rack and have a Roku at each (and an Xbox One at one of them). With an EA-1 and correct programming, you and the family shouldn't notice any difference in how you interact at these areas--you'll just be using local sources and your SR260 will control it.

Not sure how many of your 4 or 5 TVs would need all that content though. Based on what you have, it doesn't sound like you plan on doing 4 or 5 multiple streams/feeds at once(?). For example, I've got a couple "non-essential" TVs in the guest room and exercise room where I just use a Harmony/factory remote and a local streaming box--no need to spend the money on an EA-1 there for me. You can buy a lot of Rokus and Apple TVs for the price of a $6k video matrix.  

I'm not familiar with what the EA-1 and EA-5 are

[pinkoos]

21 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

Aren’t you updating cameras?  If IP those need the PoE switch too

Yes, updating the cameras, but I believe he quoted HD-TVI models.

[pinkoos]

12 minutes ago, Blaise said:

Not to name names, but this looks like a company that rhymes with trayveon

They are a good company, did my install. Definitely not the cheapest, but very professional and thorough - they will get the job done and in the end it will work the way you want it to. Support is very good as well, if it's not working the way you expect it to, they will come out and fix it and won't charge you for it.

That company did my original install 8 years ago.  The quote that I posted here is from a different company run by a former employee of the other company.  That's probably why you recognize the format.

[pinkoos]

6 minutes ago, Pounce said:

If you switch from a DVR you may realize that streaming offers better resolution and choices. You no longer have to wait for shows to record. They are simply available. You also get 4k. I'm fairly certain you can capture most of the shows that interest you on some streaming service. While it may seem that the package is cheaper with adding TV it's really not most of the time. I actually recommend getting business class cable internet over consumer. Same service essentially, but the equipment is often different and better and the SLA for fixing outages etc is much shorter. You also tend to get unlimited service and no data throttling.

Well, if you eliminate cable TV you don't need the cable box. If you have Fire TV or nVidia Shield you get Netflix (4k), Amazon (4k) and just about every other streaming service plus apps to play local files and  OTA HD TV using something like Silicon Dusk HDhomerun. Plus, if you still want to add a matrix if you have those local boxes you can add something like Video Storm and add a cable box, DVR, Apple TV, Bluray etc in a distributed way. Not to complicate your choices. If you consider that distributed video is costing you 6k and you want to look into cutting costs this is the easiest way. 

 

You can control all of them with Control4 if that is your desire.

Okay, thanks for the clarifications.  I think, at this point, if I want to at least replicate the functionality I have right now without getting into too many complicating factors, I'd be better off spending some $$ on a new matrix.

[Pounce]

Just now, pinkoos said:

Okay, thanks for the clarifications.  I think, at this point, if I want to at least replicate the functionality I have right now without getting into too many complicating factors, I'd be better off spending some $$ on a new matrix.

Yes, probably. Based on this and other threads I think a turn-key solid setup is the best solution for you. What's quoted is reasonable and isn't on the level of stealing your money as long as you feel you are going to get good customer care.