navman Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I have gone ahead with a medium size C4 install for my home consisting of EA5 main unit ad EA1 in a few rooms in my house. I have purchased a New Netgear Orbi 6 Wifi Mesh system 1 x Router and 2 x Satellites, there are some wired and wireless connectivity issues to C4 (hanging, losing connections etc) Could I please get some advise on wifi config / best practices ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Get rid of the mesh wifi. Most likely that is your culprit. Multicast is basically lost on those systems and that's what C4 relies on. Return it and get proper networking gear. THawes, RobbieF, CTMatthew and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navman Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 Could you share some technical details as to why Orbi / mesh network does not work well with C4? I am a NW specialist and have no qualms with the Orbi 6 product and the functionality that it brings, if this needs to be replaced to work better with C4 I would appreciate some data to back this up. Is Multicast the only requirement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 MESH networking can mean three things: -HARDWIRED APs that work as a mesh for hand-over -Wireless EXTENDERS that repeat the signal -A Hybrid of the two. As a 4 hours ago, navman said: NW specialist you should already know the answer as to why two of the above are not proper setup in general. If by MESH you mean the one that is 'proper' then that as such isn't an issue. ORBI router in particular is know to have C4 devices fall off-line or not ID at all (multi-cast, SDDP, SIP and UPnP issues if memory serves) CVL and RobbieF 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navman Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 I understand that other networking options work better with C4 (Pakedge, Ubiquiti, Rukus, Araknis etc). My Orbi 6 Wifi Router and Satellites are hard wired.My dealer when working at my home advises that he loses connectivity quite often to C4 devices and that is driving me crazy even though everything is hard wired. I am also seeing dropped connections to my Neo devices but that is another issue with Neos themselves. I would like to make the right choice to accommodate my C4 environment, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 It's not that some work better with Control4, it's that other's work the way Control4 needs them to. It really is a line in the sand. Orbi, most of the popular MESH and ISP Gateways are designed for the average consumer, not an Integration system. They focus on their market segment, and the other couple percent isn't worth their time to address it properly. You may see posts that say XYZ works fine for me, but his system doesn't have the same equipment; maybe it's Intercom, or Neeo WiFi remotes, or a matrix or whatever that's different in the next system, and then it fails. Control4 takes the stance of this brand/model fails under any circumstance, it's on the not recommended list. It used to be the do not use list, but people complained, it works fine if you know how to set it up, or you put it in this mode, or don't vlan, or.... So now it's the not recommended network gear list. And it's really not that big of a list, but there are some popular pieces on it. What is your dealer recommending? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 16 minutes ago, navman said: I am also seeing dropped connections to my Neo devices but that is another issue with Neos themselves. No offense but based on what? I've heard of a few cases of Neeo on Orbi being an issue, and changing router/ap fixed it. As I mentioned, Orbi was tested by C4, plus dealer cases where there were issues - I'm not part of that directly, can only communicate that through. You yourself basically just confirmed an issue that I mentioned is reported about the Orbi setup. Officially Ubuiqiti is on the do not use as well, though you can scour these forums for info on that and how numerous dealers and end-users are still using them. To the best of my knowledge there are no issues with their APs at least - we have a few clients using them with zero issues (personally hate the setup of them, but once done....) The other three you mentioned I know are tested by C4 and work fine - but beyond that they don't maintain a recommended list (haven't for years). I won't RECOMMEND a specific device as such, but Pakedge, Araknis and Ruckus are undeniably good choices, The first two will ALWAYS get full support from C4 (as they are part of the same company) UBQT I DON'T recommend, just because I don't advise going from 'do not use' device to another one...pretty sure you just want to be sure of what you do. Microtik is another option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, RAV said: So now it's the not recommended network gear list Oh, it's very much still called the DO NOT USE list (caps and all) - as in it's now called ..... (formerly known as the DO NOT USE list). . The change is in the details - they specifically state that they do not offer support on systems that use them (in reality, they will still support issues not likely related to networking though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navman Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 Pakedge pricing is pretty steep, how do the others compare in cost Also in regards to Pakedge RTR and access points, what area do they cover? My home is spread over 4000 SQ feet and I want to cover the back yard too The newer Wave 2 AP's are quite expensive, how do they compare with the cheaper Pakedge WK-1? The other thing is that I already have my cabling run to RJ45 wall connectors across all rooms therefore ceiling installation is not desirable, I would rather have table top AP's like the Orbi. I also do not want to lose control over my home network, I want to set / manage everything, what fits my requirements best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 A few of the more popular items on the list: Google Orbi Ubiquiti Beyond that, it's not recommended to use most Linksys and D-Link units, numerous Engenius units as well. Most stated models are older, but they have a long history of issues. OLDER Netgear switches have had some issues One older Planet switch had an issue, current ones are non-issue And yes, any and all ISP devices and Mesh (extending) setups and extenders (not APs of course) in general. Other options exist (Cisco, Luxul - except one of their first APs come to mind). Honestly I believe any enterprise/commercial rated system unless otherwise noted is fine - I wouldn't use a common consumer brand unless all I'm doing is a small local network switch (ie a 5 port for multiple local game systems) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 minute ago, navman said: Pakedge pricing is pretty steep, how do the others compare in cost Also in regards to Pakedge RTR and access points, what area do they cover? My home is spread over 4000 SQ feet and I want to cover the back yard too The newer Wave 2 AP's are quite expensive, how do they compare with the cheaper Pakedge WK-1? The other thing is that I already have my cabling run to RJ45 wall connectors across all rooms therefore ceiling installation is not desirable, I would rather have table top AP's like the Orbi, what fits my requirements best? Most enterprise is made to ceiling mount, but Pakedge and Araknis are NOT uni-directional and work fine sitting on a desk or wall mounted. The WA units are far better (especially though put and wall penetration), I wouldn't sell you a WK series at this point. Araknis is a bit cheaper, but steep. I use Pakedge myself in my house, and have a WA2200 covering my garage and front yard, with a WA-4400 doing my whole house and backyard. At 4000 sqf I would recommend two WA4400 - may need to place one strategically on an outer wall to push the back yard - but there's never a guarantee as there are too many possible factors. Araknis I'm less familiar with, but seems to quite decent. Most houses up to 3000 do well if there is a nice central location with one (though often weakens in garages and back yards due to extrior walls) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGeorgiaWX Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 I just got rid of all my Google WiFi equipment and replaced it with Araknis. Google was crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 15 hours ago, navman said: I also do not want to lose control over my home network, I want to set / manage everything, what fits my requirements best? That's actually a great question. What DIY network works well with Control4? We know about Araknis, Pakedge, Luxul and Ubiquity. Even how to force an Eero, but is there a consumer grade DIY network option? Something between the MESH products and Pro that's stable for a entry/mid level Control4 home? Netgear and the hawk line used to ok, not sure where they fall anymore, and I know several Netgear models are on the list. What's a good router and wired access points with general distribution availability without a large learning curve like Ubiquity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 I hate to say it but, if you want full control of your own network, then UBNT should fit the bill. Plenty of videos online to perform any action necessary. Mind you, this is my entry level networking package. Some think it's the greatest system on earth. As someone who deals with networking on the daily, I don't agree. Anywho, FlexHD would be great for tabletop/cabinet placement, Wave 2, 4x4 Mu-Mimo. Please note that the wifi does not use an actual WLAN controller. You will not get forced handoffs, etc. I've yet to run into a C4 issue with UBNT on standard sized systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navman Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 Does Ubiquiti have a package with Router and AP's? I will require a router to terminate my Cable internet connection and would like to choose a good router that supports multicast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, navman said: Does Ubiquiti have a package with Router and AP's? I will require a router to terminate my Cable internet connection and would like to choose a good router that supports multicast. They sell routers. Not sure if there is a retail package you open and get a router and access points you can mix too. I have a mikrotik router and unifi access points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 4 hours ago, navman said: Does Ubiquiti have a package with Router and AP's? I will require a router to terminate my Cable internet connection and would like to choose a good router that supports multicast. Do you have a rack to mount the router? There is a thread you can search for that discusses Ubiquiti's 2 new routers and the differences. Unifi Dream Machine (UDM) and Unifi Dream Machine Pro (UDM-P). I have both and both are great routers that use the same Unifi Router OS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navman Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 Yes I have a rack to mount the router, what is the model number that you recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, navman said: Yes I have a rack to mount the router, what is the model number that you recommend? https://store.ui.com/collections/unifi-network-routing-switching/products/udm-pro Then you need to get the Wifi AP's and maybe a POE switch depending your setup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 I have this setup. Works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navman Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 Is PAKEDGE Router with Wave 2 AP's the best available home solution for Wifi / Network connectivity? I was advised to look at Rukus however my dealer only does Pakedge or Ubiquiti, lead times for PAKEDGE are pretty quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Ruckus is the best WiFi in the business. Pakedge/UBNT are meh, IMHO. Not really shocked your dealer only offers those. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, navman said: Is PAKEDGE Router with Wave 2 AP's the best available home solution for Wifi / Network connectivity? I was advised to look at Rukus however my dealer only does Pakedge or Ubiquiti, lead times for PAKEDGE are pretty quick. Is Coke better than Pepsi? Once you're in the top tier of home networking brands, it really comes down to the installer's abilities and proper placement. None are bad, everybody has their favorite, and everybody's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejn1 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, navman said: Is PAKEDGE Router with Wave 2 AP's the best available home solution for Wifi / Network connectivity? I was advised to look at Rukus however my dealer only does Pakedge or Ubiquiti, lead times for PAKEDGE are pretty quick. Both seem solid but pakedge likely more money with more dealer control. Ubiquiti also has a monstrous product development pipeline with new innovation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navman Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 Is Rukus C4 approved? If so why don't many C4 dealers offer their equipment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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