What's the best C4 Camera Setup?

[dirtyceo]

I'm looking to rework my residential home C4 camera setup and I'd love recommendations of what brand NVR/POE Cameras I should get.  I'm looking recommendations that provide for the smoothest integration with C4, cost/value, image quality/performance, and mobile app video review experience.  An 8-channel NVR is fine for my needs and I'd like brands that have a low profile dome style camera so it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.  I've heard Luma systems are nice but I've also heard they are expensive for something that's just a rebranded Hikvision.  I've heard the Hikvision ColorVue is very nice.  I've heard good things about LTS too.  Just too much options out there so looking for this forums recommendations.   

[OceanDad]

I'm not trying to be smart/pedantic, but you should define what you mean by 'smoothest integration'.  if you are looking for a perfect display of lots of hi-res cameras on your TV navigator or C4 touch screen, they will all disappoint to some extent.  You will find that the apps for Unifi or NVMS for Hik or Blue Iris or whatever are all better than native Control4.  it's just the way it is, until Control4 steps up its game on this side of things (I'm guessing with the next generation of controllers).

Personally, I think it's important to be able to trigger and program off events reliably, get notifications, snapshots etc.  I've given up viewing cameras from within Control4.  I use Hikvision/LTS cameras and NVR, the Chowmain driver and NVMS.  I have the HDMI output from my NVR permanently displayed as a 3x3 view on a small TV in our open plan living/kitchen area.

If I had a Unifi UDM Pro as my router, I'd probably go the Unifi CCTV route, given how many good things I've heard around here.  If I was starting again from scratch in a new house, I'd probably go for Blue Iris.

[JSTRONG]

I still say look at LUMA since any issues may arise will be supported by the same company that supports your control4 system. 
 

I have 4 LUMA Cameras including the ptz luma and they all always display in the c4 app without issues. 
 

if I want to do more then just look at the cameras , then I will launch the LUMA app or go to my pc

[chopedogg88]

+1 for Luma for seamless integration, great support, and high quality low profile dome camera (410 dome for example).  Yes, Luma is Hik hardware but what you are paying extra for is the software, testing, and support.

[penn65000]

I have LUMA and Hik on C4 on two different houses. They work similarly (as one might expect given LUMA is Hik + huge mark up). Not enough addl functionality IMO to justify mark up. In fact we had issue where the third LUMA steam wasn’t playing well w C4.  Took months for them to correct this advertised BASIC feature (third stream for proper resolution so OSD works). C4 should find US manufacturer to make a line for them. IMO no great camera solution for C4. The software is tough to use for any family member. Not intuitive and I’m a tech geek! Why not just clone the Nest interface?

[zaphod]

Are there any US manufacturers that make these cameras?  I know that Hik and Dahua are particularly bad in various ways from a security perspective (China has a back door?) and from a social accountability perspective (their cameras are used in the persecution of Uyghurs), but even a nominally US branded camera would likely be made in China and maybe even in the same factory as Hik or Dahua or one of the other Chinese brands.

[JSTRONG]

Hey Penn

Your right about the Nest interface. That really is hard to beat. I have several nest cameras also for quick viewing and notifications

 

[dinom]

How does the new Chime interface compare to something like Nest?  

[ejn1]

2 hours ago, JSTRONG said:

Hey Penn

Your right about the Nest interface. That really is hard to beat. I have several nest cameras also for quick viewing and notifications

 

Except for that annual fee for their cloud service

[JSTRONG]

20 minutes ago, dinom said:

How does the new Chime interface compare to something like Nest?  

The Chime IMO is a much better camera and always works unlike the 90 percent of the time nest hello. 

[penn65000]

3 hours ago, JSTRONG said:

Hey Penn

Your right about the Nest interface. That really is hard to beat. I have several nest cameras also for quick viewing and notifications

 

Yup. Hope C4 is watching. Most security software reeks of DOS/1980s. Enormous oppty for C4 if they get this right but prob can’t ever match Nest. Hik/Luma is a joke. 

[ILoveC4]

7 hours ago, zaphod said:

Are there any US manufacturers that make these cameras?  I know that Hik and Dahua are particularly bad in various ways from a security perspective (China has a back door?) and from a social accountability perspective (their cameras are used in the persecution of Uyghurs), but even a nominally US branded camera would likely be made in China and maybe even in the same factory as Hik or Dahua or one of the other Chinese brands.

I just don’t allow mine access to the internet. Pretty easy. 

[ejn1]

Can someone please explain how the Blue Iris software Cloud access works?   Is it an annual fee, do they have an IOS app?   Can you connect to your system from a remote PC via some cloud portal?   Also, can you scroll through a timeline or is it just video snapshots based on motion?

I saw an app on app store in IOS but it looked like a third party app...

[wnpublic]

On 12/20/2020 at 6:08 AM, chopedogg88 said:

+1 for Luma for seamless integration, great support, and high quality low profile dome camera (410 dome for example).  Yes, Luma is Hik hardware but what you are paying extra for is the software, testing, and support.

I paid extra for the luma software?  Now it's even more infuriating.  The software is a joke.  Crude, barely functional, not intuitive, and ugly as all get out.

[eggzlot]

3 hours ago, ejn1 said:

Can someone please explain how the Blue Iris software Cloud access works?   Is it an annual fee, do they have an IOS app?   Can you connect to your system from a remote PC via some cloud portal?   Also, can you scroll through a timeline or is it just video snapshots based on motion?

I saw an app on app store in IOS but it looked like a third party app...

no annual fee with blue iris.  There is a fee for licenses per device.  The PC running 24x7 has a license via the software you buy.  If you want to run the app its a 1 time fee per device for the download.  You can also just use a web browser to view and not use an app though of course its quicker/easier to use an app.

On the desktop client is super easy to scroll through a timeline not just video snap shots.  on my app (I just tried) if I go to a video clip at say 9:35am where motion was detected I was very easily able to rewind that same camera to 8:02am and that entire ~90 mins was in that 1 clip.  That said this specific camera is running 24x7 so that is why it had all that footage stored.

https://ipcamtalk.com/forums/blue-iris.30/ is the defacto forum.  BI has their own support but lots of helpful people on the IP Cam Talk forum to help with BI questions, they have BI tutorials, FAQs, best practices, etc.

[zaphod]

Hasn't Blue Iris now gone to an annual support fee model with V5?  I am still running V4 for the most part, and I don't use it as a secuirty NVR, more just for fun.

But there would be other ways of getting remote access, like port forwarding the BI Web portal port and/or using a VPN.

[eggzlot]

29 minutes ago, zaphod said:

Hasn't Blue Iris now gone to an annual support fee model with V5?  I am still running V4 for the most part, and I don't use it as a secuirty NVR, more just for fun.

But there would be other ways of getting remote access, like port forwarding the BI Web portal port and/or using a VPN.

maybe - my account (v5) says out of support but I had a question and they got back to me with an answer within 48 hours by emailing their support channel.  I am not complaining.  If I had to go to IP Cam Talk to get some detailed answers - just like this forum - there are some super power users there who could help.  The transition from v4 to v5 was a little messy and confusing to say the least.

[ejn1]

2 hours ago, eggzlot said:

no annual fee with blue iris.  There is a fee for licenses per device.  The PC running 24x7 has a license via the software you buy.  If you want to run the app its a 1 time fee per device for the download.  You can also just use a web browser to view and not use an app though of course its quicker/easier to use an app.

On the desktop client is super easy to scroll through a timeline not just video snap shots.  on my app (I just tried) if I go to a video clip at say 9:35am where motion was detected I was very easily able to rewind that same camera to 8:02am and that entire ~90 mins was in that 1 clip.  That said this specific camera is running 24x7 so that is why it had all that footage stored.

https://ipcamtalk.com/forums/blue-iris.30/ is the defacto forum.  BI has their own support but lots of helpful people on the IP Cam Talk forum to help with BI questions, they have BI tutorials, FAQs, best practices, etc.

Thanks for the quick response... It seems reasonable for their 64 camera license but it says for 1 PC only... Not sure if that is the primary server PC but assume so.    Did I read it correctly that they don't use a cloud service but rather turn your home PC into a webserver so you are actually accessing your own PC when away from home?  I guess this would mean also your PC has to be running 24x7...

 

 

[eggzlot]

Just now, ejn1 said:

Thanks for the quick response... It seems reasonable for their 64 camera license but it says for 1 PC only... Not sure if that is the primary server PC but assume so.    Did I read it correctly that they don't use a cloud service but rather turn your home PC into a webserver so you are actually accessing your own PC when away from home?  I guess this would mean also your PC has to be running 24x7...

 

 

Believe so - your PC turns into a webserver.  no cloud storage, its all local on my computer which yes runs 24x7.  I have it set up that if I lose power when I get power back it auto boots the computer and launches/logs into BI.  Been hiccup free for 4+ years (so now something will happen soon!)

And yes, 64 cameras can run on 1 PC.  so when you pay for the software/license its good for 1 PC.

[ejn1]

1 minute ago, eggzlot said:

Believe so - your PC turns into a webserver.  no cloud storage, its all local on my computer which yes runs 24x7.  I have it set up that if I lose power when I get power back it auto boots the computer and launches/logs into BI.  Been hiccup free for 4+ years (so now something will happen soon!)

And yes, 64 cameras can run on 1 PC.  so when you pay for the software/license its good for 1 PC.

  I have a custom build FreeNAS server that I can set up Virtual Machines on and is 24/7.   I'm not sure but I think folks have run Blue Iris on a VM setup like this.   I'm currently running Pi-Hole and works great.

[eggzlot]

36 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

  I have a custom build FreeNAS server that I can set up Virtual Machines on and is 24/7.   I'm not sure but I think folks have run Blue Iris on a VM setup like this.   I'm currently running Pi-Hole and works great.

over my pay grade, no input to share, sorry.

[zaphod]

37 minutes ago, ejn1 said:

  I have a custom build FreeNAS server that I can set up Virtual Machines on and is 24/7.   I'm not sure but I think folks have run Blue Iris on a VM setup like this.   I'm currently running Pi-Hole and works great.

It is not so easy to do this as BI is very resource intensive.  What you are probably doing with Pi-Hole is running it in a Docker.  I have an unRAID server that has the Pi-Hole docker running, as well as a bunch of other Dockers, like OpenVPN server, Unifi Controller, Plex, SageTV, etc. Dockers are great for self-contained applications and are simpler than full-blown VMs.

Here are some reddit threads with a bit of info:  

https://www.reddit.com/r/BlueIris/comments/ikr6gh/blueiris_successfully_running_in_a_docker/

https://www.reddit.com/r/BlueIris/comments/gaxhk8/how_well_does_blue_iris_work_in_docker_containers/

 

 

[ejn1]

1 hour ago, zaphod said:

It is not so easy to do this as BI is very resource intensive.  What you are probably doing with Pi-Hole is running it in a Docker.  I have an unRAID server that has the Pi-Hole docker running, as well as a bunch of other Dockers, like OpenVPN server, Unifi Controller, Plex, SageTV, etc. Dockers are great for self-contained applications and are simpler than full-blown VMs.

Here are some reddit threads with a bit of info:  

https://www.reddit.com/r/BlueIris/comments/ikr6gh/blueiris_successfully_running_in_a_docker/

https://www.reddit.com/r/BlueIris/comments/gaxhk8/how_well_does_blue_iris_work_in_docker_containers/

 

 

I'm not an expert but pretty sure its a full blown VM on a Freenas system with dedicated memory and storage and processor cores.   But you might be correct that BI is too resource intensive to run in this fashion.

[ejn1]

1 hour ago, eggzlot said:

over my pay grade, no input to share, sorry.

It's a stretch for me also   Reason i'm asking about BI is I'm intrigued with the comparisons versus as system like Unifi.   My sense is that BI main benefits is great camera flexibility (and cheaper camera options in the 4k ranges) plus more C4 programming possibilities with Unifi being a more polished self contained, cloud based, no operating expenses option. 

[eggzlot]

2 hours ago, ejn1 said:

It's a stretch for me also   Reason i'm asking about BI is I'm intrigued with the comparisons versus as system like Unifi.   My sense is that BI main benefits is great camera flexibility (and cheaper camera options in the 4k ranges) plus more C4 programming possibilities with Unifi being a more polished self contained, cloud based, no operating expenses option. 

Mostly correct

only BI expense is hardware, license for the PC and 1x cost to download an app on your device.  You can get by with just a web browser and vpn on your phone and save the cost of the app download.  No real operating expenses with BI.  Integrates well into c4 with a free driver or an advanced paid driver and like you said camera agnostic so you can get the camera specific to your need.  Unifi only has 3-4 camera models I believe.  You may need various FOV, shapes, etc for different areas of your house and unifi lacks those options