Questions for Video Door Bell, Sensors and Video Cameras

[VIS]

Hi everyone.  I have most of the audio and TV C4 setup ready from a design perspective.  I am now looking into video door bell, sensors for slidding door and windows and video cameras.  I am not paying a service for sercuity, rather, would have the video be local storage but have alerts for video and sensors being sent to iphones, tv and ipads and being able to play back from those devices.  Looking at ethernet POE for the cameras and video door bell, and  wireless for the sensors.  Thoughts or ideas on this and products?  Any questions you have of me, please ask.

Thanks!

Tim

[chopedogg88]

I would use wireless NYCE door/window sensors, Luma IP cameras/NVR, and a Control4 Chime video doorbell for the best & most reliable experience within a Control4 system.

[Time2Jet]

1 minute ago, chopedogg88 said:

I would use wireless NYCE door/window sensors, Luma IP cameras/NVR, and a Control4 Chime video doorbell for the best & most reliable experience within a Control4 system.

100% agree with Ari.  

[lippavisual]

Nyce sensors definitely if not doing an actual security system.

Cameras, I find there are better choices than LUMA.

[Nick Wanerka]

I to 100% agree with Ari. 

[VIS]

I have read about Nyce and like the option and features.  What are the pros and cons of IP versus analog video cameras?  What about local storage options including Chime?

[Jeff W]

If you're going to get security cameras, IP is the only way to go.  If you buy analog cameras, you're throwing away your money in my opinion.  

Analog cons

• Need two wires video and power.
• You need a separate device to power the cameras.
• The DVRs have limited amount of recording capabilities both for cameras and storage.
• It's an old technology that isn't supported any more.  
• It has a MUCH lower resolution.

IP Pros

• The complete opposite of everything above heh.
• Only needs one wire.  Easier to wire, easier to manage.
• Just need one device to connect/power.
• The Lilin NVRs for example come standard with 16 channels (cameras).  You can get 32 or even 108 channels.
• IP is new, it's only going to get better.
• you can get 4MP resolution (2688 × 1520)
• You can get facial recognition, vehicle recognition, abandoned packages notifications

 

IP is the best way to go.  

[chopedogg88]

yup.  Get a Luma 510 NVR, you can also record your Chime doorbell footage to that.

[Neo1738]

I have Zuum and same have Doorbird integrated to record onto that and can bring up IP Doorbell cam on TVs w NVR as well. (Don't use C4 for camera views as resolution is lower.)

[DAVIDN]

2 hours ago, chopedogg88 said:

yup.  Get a Luma 510 NVR, you can also record your Chime doorbell footage to that.

Two questions:

• My installer told me that adding the Chime to my 510 NVR "it always records and it will fill the hard drive up really quick".  I have the base 1TB model, but adding another 4TB drive is $109 for a WD Purple drive if that will be sufficient.  Currently have five 410 cameras.   Thoughts?  I personally don't like relying on the "history" tab in the C4->Security->Cameras section.
• Again my installer claims C4 only keep snapshots of the cameras and I cannot view live feeds of the IP cameras in the C4 app or on my TV.  I have to open the Luma app.  Somebody said I have to change the streaming from H.265 to H.264?  I assume that has other drawbacks like poorer compression?

[lippavisual]

H.265 is not available through C4.

looking at the camera grid in C4, all cameras are a snapshot/image.  When selecting the camera, you’ll get the h264 live feed.

NVRs can bet set to record continuously, motion detection only or on schedules.

Proper planning is required to figure out how long you want to store recordings and how much storage space is required.

Particularly, the latter, is why I’ve switched to using a Synology NAS for all my camera systems.  Plus I find the interface, web browser compatibility and apps much better than LUMA/Hikvision

[VIS]

Thanks for the information so far, good stuff. 

 

@lippavisual What are you using for notification, seeing who is at the front door while they are still there and not already driven away like Ring and Nest.  Can that be setup for audio to announce via your speakers?  Can it be used to show who is at front door via your tv, notification on your mobile device (IOS)?  I would only hold 2 weeks to 30 days of storage and then it can be written over, FIFO.

[eggzlot]

31 minutes ago, VIS said:

Thanks for the information so far, good stuff. 

 

@lippavisual What are you using for notification, seeing who is at the front door while they are still there and not already driven away like Ring and Nest.  Can that be setup for audio to announce via your speakers?  Can it be used to show who is at front door via your tv, notification on your mobile device (IOS)?  I would only hold 2 weeks to 30 days of storage and then it can be written over, FIFO.

There are many online calculators to give you an idea of how big of a drive you’ll need based on # of cameras, recording format, FPS and other options: https://shop.westerndigital.com/tools/surveillance-capacity-calculator

[DAVIDN]

36 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

H.265 is not available through C4.

looking at the camera grid in C4, all cameras are a snapshot/image.  When selecting the camera, you’ll get the h264 live feed.

NVRs can bet set to record continuously, motion detection only or on schedules.

Proper planning is required to figure out how long you want to store recordings and how much storage space is required.

Particularly, the latter, is why I’ve switched to using a Synology NAS for all my camera systems.  Plus I find the interface, web browser compatibility and apps much better than LUMA/Hikvision

It works if I click on the Chime- I get a live stream form my doorbell. But when I select one of the Luma 410 cameras, I get nothing....  Just the spinning circle...

[lippavisual]

1 hour ago, VIS said:

Thanks for the information so far, good stuff. 

 

@lippavisual What are you using for notification, seeing who is at the front door while they are still there and not already driven away like Ring and Nest.  Can that be setup for audio to announce via your speakers?  Can it be used to show who is at front door via your tv, notification on your mobile device (IOS)?  I would only hold 2 weeks to 30 days of storage and then it can be written over, FIFO.

I use an actual motion sensor that I enable at night for notifications, basically when we’re sleeping.  I find motion notifications during the day very pointless because all you need is a fly or leaf to be on camera and then you’ll get an alert.  Cameras don’t use true motion detection, it’s more any pixel change in the image.

 I use a DoorBird doorbell that’s integrated into C4 and a Videostorm system.  VS is an IP based matrix system, where cameras are setup and viewed as a video source and can be setup to do PiP overlay when my doorbell rings and TVs are on.  I don’t usually have a need to speak to anyone at my door but when I do, I use the native DoorBird app. 
 

Like eggz said, use an online calculator to figure out what you need for storage.  At least gives you a rough estimate.  4K video at high frame rate will take up a lot of space, even with motion only recording.

[RAV]

Storage Rule of Thumb - Terabyte per camera gets you 24/7 for 4 weeks

[Don Cohen]

2 hours ago, lippavisual said:

NVRs can bet set to record continuously, motion detection only or on schedules.

I have a 510 NVR, with 2 Luma IP cameras, along with a DS2-Mini, and a Chime added recently.  I have the Luma cameras configured to record for motion only, but that doesn't seem to be an option for either DS2 or Chime.  I can only configure them to continuous.  If set to motion, they never record.

Is this a limitation of my setup and configuration, or an inherent limitation for the C4 cameras?  I would love to have these record only for motion.

[DAVIDN]

1 hour ago, Don Cohen said:

I have a 510 NVR, with 2 Luma IP cameras, along with a DS2-Mini, and a Chime added recently.  I have the Luma cameras configured to record for motion only, but that doesn't seem to be an option for either DS2 or Chime.  I can only configure them to continuous.  If set to motion, they never record.

Is this a limitation of my setup and configuration, or an inherent limitation for the C4 cameras?  I would love to have these record only for motion.

That's exactly what my installer said as well- Chime records  continuous.  Which seems like a catastrophic limitation.  

[VIS]

Hopefully, the Chime will get an update that will allow it to record when motion only is present.  Looks like Luma solution comes with POE so that will allow me to have less POE in my switch envrionment.

Is anyome using a mixed Unify and Cisco environment?  I am going to have MX64 as my firewall with 8 port MS-120-P switch and a Cisco 3650 24PS-L.  The APs I am thinking about using are Unify U6-Lite.  I know I will have two differrent controllers managing Meraki and Unifi.  I don't like the Java security issues and Unify just has not done anything to better secure their equipment.  I know they should inter-mix based on standards.  Has anyone done this in C4 environment and how has it worked?  I am assuming from VLAN perspective all IoT in the house that C4 needs to speak to will need to be on same vlan.  Then I can separate guests with their own vlan and main network as another so none of the networks will talk to each other.

[ERDrPC]

23 hours ago, lippavisual said:

I use an actual motion sensor that I enable at night for notifications, basically when we’re sleeping.  I find motion notifications during the day very pointless because all you need is a fly or leaf to be on camera and then you’ll get an alert.  Cameras don’t use true motion detection, it’s more any pixel change in the image.

 I use a DoorBird doorbell that’s integrated into C4 and a Videostorm system.  VS is an IP based matrix system, where cameras are setup and viewed as a video source and can be setup to do PiP overlay when my doorbell rings and TVs are on.  I don’t usually have a need to speak to anyone at my door but when I do, I use the native DoorBird app. 
 

Like eggz said, use an online calculator to figure out what you need for storage.  At least gives you a rough estimate.  4K video at high frame rate will take up a lot of space, even with motion only recording.

I have a JAP video distribution system. Is there a way to get the doorbird video feed direct to tv instead of using camera jump/ea1 and lower resolution video. Ie display the IP feed directly? I have an extra jap transmitter.  I'm already planning on using the ip camera feed for a second camera view on certain TVs front my Hik.NVR

[Neo1738]

1 hour ago, ERDrPC said:

I have a JAP video distribution system. Is there a way to get the doorbird video feed direct to tv instead of using camera jump/ea1 and lower resolution video. Ie display the IP feed directly? I have an extra jap transmitter.  I'm already planning on using the ip camera feed for a second camera view on certain TVs front my Hik.NVR

I think you have to have the DB hooked into your NVR than you can do it. That's how I have it. 

[lippavisual]

20 minutes ago, Neo1738 said:

I think you have to have the DB hooked into your NVR than you can do it. That's how I have it. 

This or your can get an hdmi IP decoder.  Set the DoorBird rtsp stream as the source.

Jap doesn’t allow IP streams as a source, so you’ll need a decoder of sorts.

Also, when your DoorBird button is pushed, if anyone answers the DoorBird app, the rtsp stream disappears.  This is because the app gets priority for the video stream.

Other than that, I’ve had no issues.