Help Me Understand Why I have Control4

[BCHutch]

So I have a new build and we were directed to a company that installed whole house speaker, theater speaker setup in the living room, and Control4 to run everything. My goal was to be able to essentially control everything in the home with voice and quickly add new smart home features. My issue is that I feel like this is a very limited and confusing system - but maybe it's training? Here are some examples:

- The only way I can play music in any room using Tidal is to manually search this out through the Control4 app. I can then pick and choose rooms.

- I had a tech come in and finally get Alexa voice control working for music, but now I can't play different music in different rooms. When I try, they all change at the same time. 

- I have constant issues with Roku and the TV setup. Sometimes the watch setting works and everything comes on, sometimes it doesnt? The HDMI signal is very slow and goes out a lot (we moved away from cat6 because nobody could get that to work consistently).

- I'm looking at smart lighting and seem to only have Control4 or Lutron as options. But I don't know why that would be any better through Control4 than setting it up through Alexa and using any lighting I want (think Brilliant).

I feel like the list goes on and on but my main question is really, why Control4? I feel like the only thing it's really doing for me is allowing me to control music in different rooms? What is the value in this extremely costly option?

Thank you for your help!

[RAV]

Did you work directly with your dealer? Or interface through the builder?
Was the dealer aware of your voice desire from the start, or was voice a would be cool to add on?
Did your dealer discuss the eco system and how adding additional devices is done, as you sound like you want to be more DIY than Dealer model?

We'll have as many questions as you do.
Is the Roku at the rack? Behind the TV, switching through a receiver, are there other video sources at that TV that do work?

[South Africa C4 user]

Maybe to add, Control4 is a phenomenal system if setup right and can control pretty much anything (again, if set up properly).  Voice control via Alexa is pretty hit and miss (my personal view) and while I use the for a few things, I much prefer my keypads, touchscreens and iPad / iPhone when it comes to controlling most things.  That said, the beauty of well set up automation is that you can minimise the need for control.

E.g blinds open at a set time in the morning, music comes on, lights come on slowly.  

Walk into the bathroom and the lights come on.  Leave and they turn off.

Push one button and the security system arms, the downstairs and outs airs lights turn off and a small LED on the keypad turns red.

Turn in the TV and music turns off, the lights go dim and the blinds close.

Etc.

[macosr]

2 hours ago, BCHutch said:

So I have a new build and we were directed to a company that installed whole house speaker, theater speaker setup in the living room, and Control4 to run everything. My goal was to be able to essentially control everything in the home with voice and quickly add new smart home features. My issue is that I feel like this is a very limited and confusing system - but maybe it's training? Here are some examples:

- The only way I can play music in any room using Tidal is to manually search this out through the Control4 app. I can then pick and choose rooms.

- I had a tech come in and finally get Alexa voice control working for music, but now I can't play different music in different rooms. When I try, they all change at the same time. 

- I have constant issues with Roku and the TV setup. Sometimes the watch setting works and everything comes on, sometimes it doesnt? The HDMI signal is very slow and goes out a lot (we moved away from cat6 because nobody could get that to work consistently).

- I'm looking at smart lighting and seem to only have Control4 or Lutron as options. But I don't know why that would be any better through Control4 than setting it up through Alexa and using any lighting I want (think Brilliant).

I feel like the list goes on and on but my main question is really, why Control4? I feel like the only thing it's really doing for me is allowing me to control music in different rooms? What is the value in this extremely costly option?

Thank you for your help!

ANY system is all about components and setup. You should not have the issues you are currently having with a Control4 system if it is setup properly for you with the proper components and setup and it should be easy to use. 

Here are some random thoughts and replies (I'm not a dealer btw but an highly competent end user in the technology sector)...

- You can integrate Alexa with Control4 to control things...I personally took it out of my system because of how Alexa listens to everything and sells your data but that's a personal choice.

- I have Siri integrated for use with my Apple TVs for voice control and it works great.

- If you're having HDMI signal issues over CAT6 there is a problem somewhere with the cable or the baluns.

- I love the Control4 lighting and control around 150 light circuits with lighting scenes and automations, etc and it is amazing.

- With Control4 we control: Lighting, HVAC (six zones), Video Distribution (10 zones with 8 sources), Audio Distribution (23 zones), Alarm System, Video Camera System, Video Doorbells (3), Pool System, Door Locks, Smart Outlets, Landscape Lighting, Blinds, etc, etc, etc.

- Our system is rock solid with absolutely no issues

It is all about setup, your dealer, and your ability to communicate what you want out of your system. 

I'll also add, that with Control4, for usability, I recommend that non-techie people (such as my wife and kids) have access to the iOS or Android Control4 app, that you have keypads with scenes setup, and you have touch screens. 

[macosr]

57 minutes ago, South Africa C4 user said:

Maybe to add, Control4 is a phenomenal system if setup right and can control pretty much anything (again, if set up properly).  Voice control via Alexa is pretty hit and miss (my personal view) and while I use the for a few things, I much prefer my keypads, touchscreens and iPad / iPhone when it comes to controlling most things.  That said, the beauty of well set up automation is that you can minimise the need for control.

E.g blinds open at a set time in the morning, music comes on, lights come on slowly.  

Walk into the bathroom and the lights come on.  Leave and they turn off.

Push one button and the security system arms, the downstairs and outs airs lights turn off and a small LED on the keypad turns red.

Turn in the TV and music turns off, the lights go dim and the blinds close.

Etc.

I didn't see your reply before typing mine...honestly...the best part about everything is lighting scenes and connected actions and automations. I honestly don't even know where to turn off some of my individual lights in my house because they are part of scenes...press one button and all the lights are turned off at night (that should be)...landscape lighting schedules change all on their own...turn on the projector in the theatre and the lights are dimmed and the blinds go down...etc, etc, etc. I would never go back.

[EdC4Tx]

It sounds like you and your dealer were not on the same page as far as what you want out of your system and what the system can actually do. Alexa is not great and is very clunky as some people have eluded already. One of the most difficult things to do with Alexa is to change rooms with audio and or turn on music by a specific artist which is not possible with Alexa. Josh Ai can do both of these features, however it’s 10 times more expensive than Alexa and also has Pro’s and Cons. I think if Voice Control was a must for you, I would have have reviewed the pros and cons for both Alexa and Josh. Unfortunately Voice control still has ways to go before it works perfectly more consistently. If you are having video issues I would tell your dealer to come back and fix it,  if your system was just installed they owe it to you to make sure it’s working correctly and they should not be charging especially if the system was just installed. Send me a Pm if you want me to look at your system would be happy to help. 

[BXTR]

Sounds like you have what might be a poor quality install or a poor combination of equipment 

With that said;

Using Tidal has got to be the easiest thing ever on the C4 app, pick music, pick tidal, pick playlist and go. I’m not trying to be an arse but what difficulty are you having?

You mention that “nobody” could get HDMI over cat6 to work, what does that mean? Have other dealers looked at the system?

Perhaps post a picture of the rack, front and back. This will help us answer dozens of questions once we see what’s there and how it’s put together. 

[Cyknight]

6 hours ago, BCHutch said:

My goal was to be able to essentially control everything in the home with voice and quickly add new smart home features

Uhm. I sincerely doubt the whole "do it all with voice" would last long. THAT is limiting.

That said, as you mentioned alexa can be integrated with C4 to do pretty much anything - but as with ANY voice setup, the more you do, the more you need to remember what to say and how to say it. If you find tidal hard to use in C4, well either something is really amiss with your setup in some weird way, or, and yes I AM being an ass, complex voice control isn't for you either.

The fact that it's not workign right is merely a matter of setup and programming. Sounds like the C4 dealer you're working with is in over it's head.

Roku is about as solid as it gets integration wise, but not knowing the setup it's impossible to say what other components may be involved, and thus not working.

Lighting isn't limited to C4 and lutron: those are probably the most rock-solid solutions out there however. Any zwave lighting pretty much works as well. Not to mention numerous other options. Look at drivercentral.io for a pretty expansive overview of other options.

 

You should knwo that C4 is a dealer installed and maintained system. While there are options for you to tinker yourself, 'quickly adding new smart features' (yourself) isn't what C4 does.

 

[DanITman]

On 10/12/2023 at 8:58 PM, Cyknight said:

Uhm. I sincerely doubt the whole "do it all with voice" would last long. THAT is limiting.

That said, as you mentioned alexa can be integrated with C4 to do pretty much anything - but as with ANY voice setup, the more you do, the more you need to remember what to say and how to say it. If you find tidal hard to use in C4, well either something is really amiss with your setup in some weird way, or, and yes I AM being an ass, complex voice control isn't for you either.

The fact that it's not workign right is merely a matter of setup and programming. Sounds like the C4 dealer you're working with is in over it's head.

Roku is about as solid as it gets integration wise, but not knowing the setup it's impossible to say what other components may be involved, and thus not working.

Lighting isn't limited to C4 and lutron: those are probably the most rock-solid solutions out there however. Any zwave lighting pretty much works as well. Not to mention numerous other options. Look at drivercentral.io for a pretty expansive overview of other options.

 

You should knwo that C4 is a dealer installed and maintained system. While there are options for you to tinker yourself, 'quickly adding new smart features' (yourself) isn't what C4 does.

 

Does control4 support selecting an artist, album, or song for a specific service with Alexa?  With Sonos I just tell Alexa what I want and it’s room aware and she plays it. I didn’t think control4 was capable of it. I know Alexa + Control4 is not room aware. 

Josh.ai is another option that might work out better for OP. If voice is what you really want then Josh provides a lot more flexibility. 

My household does tend to start music from Voice prompt so Sonos is a great option that integrates well with C4. 

[Zbee]

If you don't mind walking around and manually turning things on and off, setting alarms and thermostats, etc., you don't need a home automation system like Control4. In a high end home, at least in techie areas, buyers expect automation these days, so it will likely affect resale value. 

from my perspective, the real value is in scenes. For example, you can have a scene called good morning that turns up the heat, turns on your Tesla interior heat, opens blinds, turns on certain lights, turns off your security system, etc.  Or a 'guests arrive' scene that turns on exterior lights, unlocks the front door, turns on a water feature in the entry, stairway lighting ...   One that comes in very handy is to have a scene 'all off' next to your bed that turns off everything in the house that you want powered down and closes the bedroom blinds. Scenes are mostly limited by your imagination. Again, they don't do anything that you couldn't do manually, but in a big house it saves a lot of time.

My wife is a total technophobe and she really likes pushing one button that turns on her favorite music in whichever room she is currently in and another that turns on the TV, receiver, etc. so she doesn't have to figure out how to turn on music or TV manually.

I don't like Alexa for C4 voice control because of questionable security and its kludgy integration with Control4. Josh.ai is better, but pricey.

[BCHutch]

Hi all, thank you for the help!

A couple answers and updates.

1. Tidal works great in the app if you're simply selecting a room and playing music. If you try and get smart or put it into scenes, it doesn't work. You can't select anything in when then and I'm told its a bug they are working on. Though it is still not working and it has been over a year. I did find that Spotify is much more reliable and now have this in my Alexa routines working great. Tidal never worked in this manner.

2. My Roku is at the rack and run through a receiver

3. I had Cat6 run with the build. We used that initially and it was horribly buggy. We replaced the baluns with upgraded ones and still weren't able to get things working. Now I have a 75ft HDMI cable run (not optimal) and it works much better. The issue is delay - when we start new videos or turn the system on you get sound long before picture. Sometimes the TV doesn't even recognize the input and doesn't switch over at all so you have to completely restart everything and try again.

4. The way we got Alexa voice working was to place an Alexa at the rack and set up voice scenes. It works ok, but yes, you need to be very clear about how you want your commands set up. Check the attachments. Of course, the issue is that I need the dealer to work on this stuff for me. It's nice though that after you turn on a room audio, you can speak to Alexa fairly normally for song selection and/or volume. It can be a little goofy if you don't turn off the room audio audibly before other routines run.

Overall, I'm not too happy and think there are probably much easier solutions through Amazon, Google, Apple etc. This is just very expensive and very closed.

[BXTR]

It sounds like the dealer didn’t ask you the right questions when designing a system for you, quite frankly just reading what you have to say checks all the “not a good fit” boxes 

1. It sounds like you like to be not dependent on a dealer to do things for you… the C4 model is overall the opposite of this. Your dealer didn’t recognize that for whatever reason

2. If your dealer cannot find an HDMI extender that actually works as it’s supposed to then I’d either think that they’re fairly green or there’s an issue with the a/v receiver

3. Much of your dissatisfaction is due to integration with when/then and Alexa which IMO is not great  99.9% of our clients don’t have the patience to try to use when/then, they just text, call or email with requests. Personally I’m not a fan of Alexa because I think a 95% success rate on commands isn’t acceptable much less the other issues with one cloud trying to talk to another cloud

 

 

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, BCHutch said:

You can't select anything in when then

When/then is very limited to begin with: that's what ComposerHE is for.

 

2 hours ago, BCHutch said:

We replaced the baluns with upgraded ones and still weren't able to get things working. Now I have a 75ft HDMI cable run (not optimal) and it works much better. The issue is delay - when we start new videos or turn the system on you get sound long before picture.

Sounds like the wrong setup was used for a/v I'm sorry to say. A proper design and choice (combination!) of video and audio distribution simply has no noticeable delays.

2 hours ago, BCHutch said:

there are probably much easier solutions through Amazon

Not really. Not easier for sure. But hey, prove me wrong

[EdC4Tx]

If you were expecting Alexa to not be clunky then your dealer did not inform you of all the shortcomings as it pertains to voice control. Alexa is clunky at best and it requires extra programming to get it to do the most basic things. I don’t recommend to our clients and if they insist on it we are sure to inform them of all the shortcomings with Alexa and there is nothing we can do to fix the integration. Even Josh Ai which is much more expensive is not perfect as a voice solution. As far as your video issues Cat 6 is plenty good to provide video, not sure what you mean by buggy but I’ve installed projects that have longer runs and we don’t have the issues you are describing. Curious to know if you have a video switch in your project or you are just using baluns as extenders. As far as the sound goes you will always hear the sound before seeing the picture. Remember the system is giving multiple commands to turn on your video source. The system has to send commands to turn on your tv, turn on a receiver if applicable, and change inputs. At most you should be waiting 3 to 6 seconds to see video. If you are still having issues with your video being buggy your dealer  should be working with you to get it corrected especially if your system was just installed. If they cannot solve the issue you might want to get a second opinion from another dealer. 

[tekki70]

control4 is really meant to bring everything together in one uniform app, control devices with a simple remote or touchscreen. if voice control of everything is your main concern you should go with joshai. other than that the dealer should have explained josh is your choice of voice control for everything if you dont want it to be clunky. Another solution could have been control4 to unifi everything and focus on tv viewing, cctv viewing, garage doors etc. then use sonos with alexa built in to voice control music. 

my focus would have been control4 for video zones, thermostats, garage doors, cctv viewing, lighting, music and then alexa could do sonos music easily, lighting easily, thermostats, and more

design is key 

[Control4Savant]

 

On 10/12/2023 at 2:37 PM, BCHutch said:

So I have a new build and we were directed to a company that installed whole house speaker, theater speaker setup in the living room, and Control4 to run everything. My goal was to be able to essentially control everything in the home with voice and quickly add new smart home features. My issue is that I feel like this is a very limited and confusing system - but maybe it's training? Here are some examples:

- The only way I can play music in any room using Tidal is to manually search this out through the Control4 app. I can then pick and choose rooms.

- I had a tech come in and finally get Alexa voice control working for music, but now I can't play different music in different rooms. When I try, they all change at the same time. 

- I have constant issues with Roku and the TV setup. Sometimes the watch setting works and everything comes on, sometimes it doesnt? The HDMI signal is very slow and goes out a lot (we moved away from cat6 because nobody could get that to work consistently).

- I'm looking at smart lighting and seem to only have Control4 or Lutron as options. But I don't know why that would be any better through Control4 than setting it up through Alexa and using any lighting I want (think Brilliant).

I feel like the list goes on and on but my main question is really, why Control4? I feel like the only thing it's really doing for me is allowing me to control music in different rooms? What is the value in this extremely costly option?

Thank you for your help!

Keeping this as direct as possible since these are pretty basic things… It sounds like your dealer is grossly under experienced or lazy and full of bs. I would look elsewhere.  “Moved away from CAT6 because no nobody could get that to work consistently” … this is like basic AV nowadays.  Do you want to tinker with a system? Do you mind individual apps? Do you have the time to swap everything when a 3rd party brand or integration dries up? I would never give money to Brilliant who could disappear as fast as they have come in. I certainly have yet to be convinced/impressed by their reps to install any of their product. Good luck retrofitting those into a standard depth HiVo box. Stick to trusted brands not going anywhere like a Lutron line. 

[DaddyPops]

Control4 is great for AV. For lighting, in higher recommend Lutron though.