C4CA Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 For the pros here using an AV Pro flagship matrix what would be the best picture straight fiber HDMI (100 ft) or HDBT using CAT6 A shielded? Is there a noticeable difference one over the other? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 $$$$ If you spend the money, the picture quality will be comparable, HDbaseT is uncompressed video. Currently a 4K60 4:4:4 fiber HDMI cable is about 30% cheaper than an equivalent HDbaseT pair, assuming you want or need 4K60, otherwise a 4K30 4:2:0 HDbaseT pair is cheaper by 40% than the same Fiber HDMI cable. But, then there's future, and I wouldn't ever bury an HDMI cable I couldn't replace, so you need to consider conduit too. Roughly $450 HDbaseT at 4K30 $750 Fiber HDMI at 4K60 (plus conduit) $1100 HDbaseT at 4K60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cohen Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 16 hours ago, RAV said: $$$$ If you spend the money, the picture quality will be comparable, HDbaseT is uncompressed video. Currently a 4K60 4:4:4 fiber HDMI cable is about 30% cheaper than an equivalent HDbaseT pair, assuming you want or need 4K60, otherwise a 4K30 4:2:0 HDbaseT pair is cheaper by 40% than the same Fiber HDMI cable. But, then there's future, and I wouldn't ever bury an HDMI cable I couldn't replace, so you need to consider conduit too. Roughly $450 HDbaseT at 4K30 $750 Fiber HDMI at 4K60 (plus conduit) $1100 HDbaseT at 4K60 This info may be well out of date, but I thought I had read that HDBaseT was limited in bandwidth (10gbps or something like that?), and did use compression in order to get a full 18gbps signal for 4k60. And it wasn't clear if that compression was lossy or lossless. Secondly, given HDMI 2.1 is gaining traction, needing 48gbps bandwidth, is HDBaseT a non-starter for that type of application? Time2Jet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 The 3.0 spec says uncompressed. However, mileage may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cohen Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Very interesting - thanks for that. Once you get over 25 feet or so, active fiberoptic HDMI cables are needed, rather than passive, and these can be very hit or miss, with projectors at least. One would think that HDBaseT might be more reliable over those distances (but as you say, YMMV), and with it being uncompressed, this could be a viable option. HDMI 2.1/48gbps is clearly beyond Spec 3.0, so HDMI cables would be needed, but good to know uncompressed 4k/4:4:4 @60 fps is an available option for HDMI 2.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 The only question that really needs answering for OP: On 1/16/2024 at 10:32 AM, C4CA said: Is there a noticeable difference one over the other? No, provided they are spec'd for the same (or i should say both are at the minimum spec you want) you'll not notice a difference. Note that as mentioned above, to do 100 feet reliable you'll need an ACTIVE optical cable. Optical cable is also much more prone to (irreparable) damage - make sure you run that CAT6 as a backup. 10 hours ago, Don Cohen said: Secondly, given HDMI 2.1 is gaining traction, needing 48gbps bandwidth, is HDBaseT a non-starter for that type of application? As opposed to what? Chances of HDBaseT or some other application over CAT getting to HDMI 2.x or beyond are much higher than your optical hdmi cable being adaptable for it. Currently 2.1(b) spec is really a gaming spec: if gaming is your thing, then get setup for 2.1b now. If it isn't: it'll be years before video is caught up (it's not even caught up to 4k60) in a massive way: spend your money elsewhere. Run CAT, run a curent spec optical hdmi if you want to save some cash, then spend it on a quad fibre cable if futureproof is really what you want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cohen Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 12 minutes ago, Cyknight said: As opposed to what? Chances of HDBaseT or some other application over CAT getting to HDMI 2.x or beyond are much higher than your optical hdmi cable being adaptable for it. Currently 2.1(b) spec is really a gaming spec: if gaming is your thing, then get setup for 2.1b now. If it isn't: it'll be years before video is caught up (it's not even caught up to 4k60) in a massive way: spend your money elsewhere. Run CAT, run a curent spec optical hdmi if you want to save some cash, then spend it on a quad fibre cable if futureproof is really what you want to do. My use case is a bit unique. I use the madVR Envy Extreme video processor, which recently added AI-based Motion Interpolation to improve judder with 24 fps content. It works best with 120 fps output, so with 4k resolution, HDMI 2.1 is needed. The Envy does have an HDMI 2.1 output, and my JVC NZ9 has HDMI 2.1 inputs. I recently replaced my HDMI cable, which was limited to 18gbps, with one that did support 48gbps. My situation is fortunate since I only needed a 25' run, and a Monoprice passive cable is working perfectly, with stable 4k output at 120 fps. People do use optical HDMI all the time for this as well, when their run is longer. But they do have to be very selective in terms of which cable and brand, and sometimes a voltage inserter is needed to fully stabilize the signal. Outside of this unique application that does help with consumer video, I agree that HDMI 2.1 is primarily relevant for gaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDrPC Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I've recently been using fibercommand HDMI over fiber and all of a sudden there is no video. Not sure if it's a cable issue. What other HDMI over fiber or optical HDMI brands are recommended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew luecke Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I'd start by checking to see if the laser is visible through the cable (don't stare at it). And replace HDMI.. Most of the time its the HDMI honestly. Sometimes the HDMI also isn't the full way in the port (or the fiber isn't) Take a look at Blustream otherwise.. https://www.blustream.com.au/hdmi-over-fibre-fve4k-kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanITman Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 15 hours ago, ERDrPC said: I've recently been using fibercommand HDMI over fiber and all of a sudden there is no video. Not sure if it's a cable issue. What other HDMI over fiber or optical HDMI brands are recommended Are you on Roku? I've noticed when Roku switches to HDR it will lose picture for a few seconds before it shows again. The same happens on Shield but its much faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 I've recently been using fibercommand HDMI over fiber and all of a sudden there is no video. Not sure if it's a cable issue. What other HDMI over fiber or optical HDMI brands are recommended100% Bullet Train Fiber AOC HDMI. Complete support and the golden AVPro warranty. If you’d like, message me and I can quote you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Rob21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Hobson Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 On 1/16/2024 at 10:35 AM, RAV said: $$$$ If you spend the money, the picture quality will be comparable, HDbaseT is uncompressed video. Currently a 4K60 4:4:4 fiber HDMI cable is about 30% cheaper than an equivalent HDbaseT pair, assuming you want or need 4K60, otherwise a 4K30 4:2:0 HDbaseT pair is cheaper by 40% than the same Fiber HDMI cable. But, then there's future, and I wouldn't ever bury an HDMI cable I couldn't replace, so you need to consider conduit too. Roughly $450 HDbaseT at 4K30 $750 Fiber HDMI at 4K60 (plus conduit) $1100 HDbaseT at 4K60 Also wondering about this. If I have an AVR in a separate room with a total cable distance of < 50 feet, would it be better to go the conduit and fiber route or just use one of the standard CAT6 runs with HDbaseT baluns? I'm not looking for crazy performance, just be able to carry a good 4k signal with 60 frames per second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Conduit is always a better choice if feasible. At that length, conduit and fiber hdmi would be my choice. One less thing relying on power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 10 hours ago, Carter Hobson said: Also wondering about this. If I have an AVR in a separate room with a total cable distance of < 50 feet, would it be better to go the conduit and fiber route or just use one of the standard CAT6 runs with HDbaseT baluns? I'm not looking for crazy performance, just be able to carry a good 4k signal with 60 frames per second. I’d do fiber over HDBT all day on your scenario. I don’t know your situation in terms of how hard it will be to pull a cable, but conduit would be a best practice, not an absolute. If you can pull a 20m Bullet Train AOC Fiber HDMI you will be very pleased with the outcome. I know I keep saying “Bullet Train”, but I have heard horrible stories about other brands not performing. I’ve never had a single issue with BT Fiber HDMI. I have several 40m runs that spec out perfectly at 40m with zero compression. These cables are 48gbps rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cohen Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 9 hours ago, Time2Jet said: I’d do fiber over HDBT all day on your scenario. I don’t know your situation in terms of how hard it will be to pull a cable, but conduit would be a best practice, not an absolute. If you can pull a 20m Bullet Train AOC Fiber HDMI you will be very pleased with the outcome. I know I keep saying “Bullet Train”, but I have heard horrible stories about other brands not performing. I’ve never had a single issue with BT Fiber HDMI. I have several 40m runs that spec out perfectly at 40m with zero compression. These cables are 48gbps rated. In general, I would agree with everything you've said, and Bullet Train is a go-to brand for HDMI woes. That said, I have not found any brand or cable type that has been 100% reliable with higher bandwidth. I'm working now with someone needing 48gbps (madVR Envy to JVC NZ8, using MotionAI at 4k/HDR/120 fps). His run is around 10 meters. He bought 2 Bullet Train cables rated for 48 gbps and neither worked. Ironically, he has an older Bullet Train cable, 15 meters, rated at 18 gbps, and it runs 4k/HDR/120 fps without breaking a sweat. The bottom line is that HDMI is a crap shoot, especially when you get over 30 feet, and passive cables aren't an option. This doesn't say anything negative at all about Bullet Train, as they're generally better than most. But it does mean anybody buying a more expensive cable should clarify the return policy, because problems arise, regardless of brand or price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 7 minutes ago, Don Cohen said: In general, I would agree with everything you've said, and Bullet Train is a go-to brand for HDMI woes. That said, I have not found any brand or cable type that has been 100% reliable with higher bandwidth. I'm working now with someone needing 48gbps (madVR Envy to JVC NZ8, using MotionAI at 4k/HDR/120 fps). His run is around 10 meters. He bought 2 Bullet Train cables rated for 48 gbps and neither worked. Ironically, he has an older Bullet Train cable, 15 meters, rated at 18 gbps, and it runs 4k/HDR/120 fps without breaking a sweat. The bottom line is that HDMI is a crap shoot, especially when you get over 30 feet, and passive cables aren't an option. This doesn't say anything negative at all about Bullet Train, as they're generally better than most. But it does mean anybody buying a more expensive cable should clarify the return policy, because problems arise, regardless of brand or price. Can’t say I’ve tested those exact specs. But what did they say when you called support? I had one 15m flicker, but never any other situation where I didn’t get a picture at the spec I expected. But again, I was 18Gbps on a 48 rated AOC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cohen Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 19 minutes ago, Time2Jet said: Can’t say I’ve tested those exact specs. But what did they say when you called support? I had one 15m flicker, but never any other situation where I didn’t get a picture at the spec I expected. But again, I was 18Gbps on a 48 rated AOC. The first thing they did was send him a second cable, but it performed no better than the first. After that, they refunded his money, and basically stopped pursuing it. He next got a cable from Tributaries, which had a built-in 5v voltage inserter. That worked initially, but then he found that it also crapped out. They are actively working with him to sort this out. Man, I hate HDMI!! Time2Jet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lippavisual Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 I’ve been using the Cleerline fiber aoc hdmi cables without issues. I’ve used just about every length they have too, up to 40m. They also package a M/F HDMI to USB dongle if your source doesn’t provide 5v on the line. i mostly do commercial work, so Zoom or Teams rooms or BYOD conferencing. These cables have worked without a hitch. Granted, I haven’t yet tried pushing what you’re trying to, but at least it’s another vendor you can try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, lippavisual said: I’ve been using the Cleerline fiber aoc hdmi cables without issues. I’ve used just about every length they have too, up to 40m. They also package a M/F HDMI to USB dongle if your source doesn’t provide 5v on the line. i mostly do commercial work, so Zoom or Teams rooms or BYOD conferencing. These cables have worked without a hitch. Granted, I haven’t yet tried pushing what you’re trying to, but at least it’s another vendor you can try. Similar experience with Cleerline. I still gravitate to Bullet Train only because I know the team over there well and know that I’m going to get things working one way or another with them. Like @lippavisual mentions, Bullet Train also comes with the 5v dongle. I’m shocked they didn’t find a way to get you situated, they love being challenged. I wouldn’t give up on them. Ask to have them take it to engineering. Like most on our industry, these guys are nerds like us that just don’t take no for solution. Again, you are definitely pushing the limits, but it’s pretty sad that you aren’t asking for more than these products advertise they’ll handle. Don Cohen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDrPC Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 On 3/6/2024 at 1:53 PM, DanITman said: Are you on Roku? I've noticed when Roku switches to HDR it will lose picture for a few seconds before it shows again. The same happens on Shield but its much faster. Roku, shield,Nvr. All being pushed thru my AVR. It was working fine and now no video signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDrPC Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 On 3/5/2024 at 10:17 PM, Andrew luecke said: I'd start by checking to see if the laser is visible through the cable (don't stare at it). And replace HDMI.. Most of the time its the HDMI honestly. Sometimes the HDMI also isn't the full way in the port (or the fiber isn't) Take a look at Blustream otherwise.. https://www.blustream.com.au/hdmi-over-fibre-fve4k-kit It's a straight om3 cable at 200ft thru conduit. Fibercommand has proprietary connectors for HDMI. This cable should be future proofed just based on the om3 alone. No extendors being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERDrPC Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 On 3/6/2024 at 8:02 PM, Time2Jet said: 100% Bullet Train Fiber AOC HDMI. Complete support and the golden AVPro warranty. If you’d like, message me and I can quote you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I need a 200ft run. Does bullet train fiber support that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 I need a 200ft run. Does bullet train fiber support that?Yes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time2Jet Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 I need a 200ft run. Does bullet train fiber support that?https://www.bullettraincables.com/10kaoc.htmlSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXTR Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 On 3/7/2024 at 4:22 PM, Don Cohen said: In general, I would agree with everything you've said, and Bullet Train is a go-to brand for HDMI woes. That said, I have not found any brand or cable type that has been 100% reliable with higher bandwidth. I'm working now with someone needing 48gbps (madVR Envy to JVC NZ8, using MotionAI at 4k/HDR/120 fps). His run is around 10 meters. He bought 2 Bullet Train cables rated for 48 gbps and neither worked. Ironically, he has an older Bullet Train cable, 15 meters, rated at 18 gbps, and it runs 4k/HDR/120 fps without breaking a sweat. The bottom line is that HDMI is a crap shoot, especially when you get over 30 feet, and passive cables aren't an option. This doesn't say anything negative at all about Bullet Train, as they're generally better than most. But it does mean anybody buying a more expensive cable should clarify the return policy, because problems arise, regardless of brand or price. I actually have an RS3100, madVR and the same bullet train cable(15m though), it works but needed a voltage inserter at the madVR We also have a client with an RS4100, madVR and an Audioquest CherryCola 15m, also no issues once we added a voltage inserter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.