therockhr Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 39 minutes ago, eggzlot said: I've worked with both (I am in IT staffing for 20 years). and my clients (Fortune 1000 types) have a mix of onshore and offshore. I am in staffing so this is all I do day in and day out and know the markets fairly well. The are horror stories of resources here in the US and horror stories for resources across Europe and Asia. And of course success stories too. One day maybe I'll publish a book of some of the better stories.... No one hires off-shore resources to get better quality work (unless you are hiring in Europe which comes at a premium even over US based resources). It is strictly to save money (on paper). The work you get is subpar at best and non-exist a lot of times. People in the US spend most of their times holding their hands or fixing their messes (that is if they do anything) so there are no real gains made by hiring them. The existing people just end up working twice as hard. You are also not allowed to talk about how bad it is so you just have to sit and take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChzBurger Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I've had C4 for 3 years. In those 3 years I've had no problem paying for 4sight. In those 3 years there have been some modest but useful UI tweaks, a couple mediocre (other than voice) remote controls, and evolutionary controllers. It's hard for me to see how the new pricing is anything more than a grab. If I pay more I want to get more. And that more does not include being more locked down. So glad I have Lutron lights. DIY systems now have access to Matter devices, both Thread & WiFi. C4 still doesn't support standard Zigbee devices. penn65000, therockhr and GregCAMS 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregCAMS Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 10 hours ago, Cyknight said: Sure, but it sounds like you troubleshoot a lot of your own little glitches. Understand I'm in no way saying it's cheap - far from it. But it's also 24/7 service. Middle of the night on Christmas Eve? Call the support line/press the button in the app. Plenty of people will pay that for the piece of mind alone. I doubt many dealers can offer that sort of service level in-house. To be clear, I'm uncertain about this direction myself, but I'm also not opposed to the genreal idea as such: though as already mentioned in this thread, there's a lot of things vague/unclear as of yet - and I agree that theat is likely intentional as they figure this out. Unlike stated in another post, I DON'T think 'everyone else' is going in this direction: I think Snap is leaping to the forefront on this. Whether it's a green meadow they're landing on or a spike pit is another matter For me the amount mentioned covers ALL Home automation servicing including items not under the C4 umbrella that I use. So the dealers program for this covered some items including, not limited to: C4 & SnapOne Products Josh.ai and included 2 hours of scene training and alias setups Pool & Spa controls and threw in the driver for free with Control4 MyQ setup Firmware updates on all A/V, network, control products Google Nest Smoke/CO monitors All internet issues beyond the SnapOne products (i.e. ISP modem) DirecTV (now Apple TV) issues Actually come out and clean the products/rack Free 1 Hour per month of service calls Adding in ovrC Home resets Business Server (Synology) troubleshooting Roon Nucleus setup on network Faradite motion sensors Etc For $3,000 I already get all of what they are trying to offer plus all of this above and a few items that escape me at the moment. I guess if people aren't price shopping or evaluating all the items they have then it may be a way for people to get that service. I would be cautious about spending the optional $3,000 without a full awareness of what you have installed at your home and what this Control4 Assist will not cover. A few cherrypicked dealers on a video is not my idea of listening to the customer. Can anyone that is a customer (not dealer) on this forum state they were reached out to by their dealer or by C4 directly about an interest level in a program like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I have no doubt there's more coming regarding Connect. Why April 23, seems such a random date? Well, ISC is in Vegas April 9-12. Make announcement, available in 2 weeks, back up 90 days for we provided advance notice of changes to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 it would have been a lot better for Control4 PR wise to use the same price for the existing 4sight for their connect program for awhile if they are going to make it mandatory. To make this service mandatory, not really provide anything new and then double the price seems like a money grab. peterHTP, Shoe and GregCAMS 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregCAMS Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 minute ago, RAV said: I have no doubt there's more coming regarding Connect. Why April 23, seems such a random date? Well, ISC is in Vegas April 9-12. Make announcement, available in 2 weeks, back up 90 days for we provided advance notice of changes to come. I live here in Vegas and would love them to come to my residence and show me exactly what would and would not be covered in their Assist Premium program LOL . There are so many scenarios of what they likely won't cover with this whole thing of items that connect with Control4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I think its interesting that Assist requires direct payment to C4 from the customer. This doesn't permit the dealer to discount or even give up their cut if they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 What are the actual numbers for each service whether its monthly or yearly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregCAMS Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 8 minutes ago, Gene said: What are the actual numbers for each service whether its monthly or yearly? Control4 Connect Using Core Lite - $99/year Using any other controller - $249/year Control4 Assist (Optional service) $899/year - Base package $2,999/year - Premium Link to details - https://www.residentialsystems.com/technology/automation/snap-one-launches-saas-for-control4-adds-new-service-options This thread also have Vimeo video link to what what was provided to the dealers. Not sure about your dealer. Here in my area the equivalent of the Premium is $150/month that includes all of what is listed in that offering plus dozens more elements and onsite cleaning and servicing of the rack twice per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 7 minutes ago, Shoe said: I think its interesting that Assist requires direct payment to C4 from the customer. This doesn't permit the dealer to discount or even give up their cut if they want. 1. Shows as an asset on Control4's financials 2. Allows client to change dealer without affecting service (yes, the dealer set as my home pro gets next months check, not locked to the selling dealer) 3. Dealer only gets check while a dealer, any turnover where a client doesn't change their pro results in no partner pay out 4. Accounting of who's eligible for services, and allows the showing of the contact info to only those based on if paid, secret club access 5. Most dealers couldn't handle setting up an RMR 6. Interest: client pays yearly, dealer paid monthly GregCAMS and chopedogg88 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 25 minutes ago, Shoe said: I think its interesting that Assist requires direct payment to C4 from the customer. This doesn't permit the dealer to discount or even give up their cut if they want. This is about collecting end user Data - they will start to build up a data base of Email address / House Address / Names etc - they will also be match to there Controllers and this will show C4 who the big players etc Very powerful these days for marketing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 6 minutes ago, Gary Leeds UK said: This is about collecting end user Data - they will start to build up a data base of Email address / House Address / Names etc - they will also be match to there Controllers and this will show C4 who the big players etc Very powerful these days for marketing They already have that data. i dont think its a bad idea for Control4 to create these service tiers to help dealers create RMR. I am guessing some dealers might struggle on how to market it as well as also dont want to be hampered with level 1 calls all day long. Being able to allow customers to sign up for this through the app takes that management away from dealers. seems like a neat service. Issue i have is making connect/4sight mandatory. i would be interested to know the percentage of people who have a c4 system and 4sight. it has to be high. as i mentioned, this part seems like trying to squeeze as much out of existing customers as you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 36 minutes ago, Gary Leeds UK said: This is about collecting end user Data - they will start to build up a data base of Email address / House Address / Names etc - they will also be match to there Controllers and this will show C4 who the big players etc Very powerful these days for marketing they already have all this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregCAMS Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 35 minutes ago, therockhr said: They already have that data. i dont think its a bad idea for Control4 to create these service tiers to help dealers create RMR. I am guessing some dealers might struggle on how to market it as well as also dont want to be hampered with level 1 calls all day long. Being able to allow customers to sign up for this through the app takes that management away from dealers. seems like a neat service. Issue i have is making connect/4sight mandatory. i would be interested to know the percentage of people who have a c4 system and 4sight. it has to be high. as i mentioned, this part seems like trying to squeeze as much out of existing customers as you can. I'm wondering how a dealer would struggle with this especially when Parasol, OneVision and others offer this service already and been in the market for quite some time? I have used the former with a prior dealer and used the latter now for much less than this fee per month that is an umbrella package (24/7 support) covering more than just Snap/C4 items at $1,200 less per year. Plus if you are a dealer that does more than just C4 (RTI, URC, Savant, Crestron, Josh) which some dealers do all of them those services mentioned handle all or most and not just limited to one control platform provider. Howling at the wind but this is a bad rollout IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 51 minutes ago, RAV said: 2. Allows client to change dealer without affecting service (yes, the dealer set as my home pro gets next months check, not locked to the selling dealer) This is a really good point. This may lead to dealer consolidation and more competition for existing Control4 clients. Not always a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregCAMS Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, Shoe said: This is a really good point. This may lead to dealer consolidation and more competition for existing Control4 clients. Not always a bad thing. I hope not. have dealt with the largest dealer in my area 4 years ago and they absolutely are terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 9 minutes ago, Shoe said: This is a really good point. This may lead to dealer consolidation and more competition for existing Control4 clients. Not always a bad thing. It may indeed address poor dealer service though. Dealers sign up to be Assist, not a big deal but it is a thing and a check mark on the dealer account. Slow to respond to an Assist hand off, client feedback, client recalling about the issue, could in theory (absolutely NOTHING has been said or implied) lead to corrective measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, GregCAMS said: Control4 Connect Using Core Lite - $99/year Using any other controller - $249/year Control4 Assist (Optional service) $899/year - Base package $2,999/year - Premium Link to details - https://www.residentialsystems.com/technology/automation/snap-one-launches-saas-for-control4-adds-new-service-options This thread also have Vimeo video link to what what was provided to the dealers. Not sure about your dealer. Here in my area the equivalent of the Premium is $150/month that includes all of what is listed in that offering plus dozens more elements and onsite cleaning and servicing of the rack twice per year. Thanks! I'm wondering if Composer HE or Pro would change on the client side (given increase in guaranteed revenue to C4 and a dealer of record). I think as someone else said, it will consolidate dealers within a year or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I would really like to know how Control4 plans to manage the Connect Feature of "Software Updates" they are selling to the end user in the marketing. It is very vague in the marketing material. "Control4 Connect provides access to software and security updates" I can see an end user assuming that this includes updates in the price? Which I don't think is the case. Its funny because every Control4 customer that has their system connected to the internet already has access to software and security updates through their dealer for a fee normally, if not on a service contract. I understand why dealers charge for updates because it takes time and they are responsible for fixing any issues that might come up post update. peterHTP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penn65000 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/18/2024 at 12:42 PM, GregCAMS said: as long as it is regular and frequent updates and assistance then I can see the value and not just a money grab. something that they don't have a very good track record of doing compared to some other systems in this space. How does assist compete with or compliment Parasol? Or is this just a rebranding of Parasol? I would hope it is much much better than Parasol. Parasol sucks. We had it for about 1.5 years. The didn’t notify us in timely manner as promised, couldn’t explain why, and all the techs could do is power cycle. I can do that myself. Amateur hour. And agree that this seems to be C4 saying “our products are sometimes not reliable so we’ll charge you to monitor and reboot when necessary.” Perhaps cynical on my part but remember I have experience with the joke that is Parasol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregCAMS Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 13 minutes ago, penn65000 said: I would hope it is much much better than Parasol. Parasol sucks. We had it for about 1.5 years. The didn’t notify us in timely manner as promised, couldn’t explain why, and all the techs could do is power cycle. I can do that myself. Amateur hour. And agree that this seems to be C4 saying “our products are sometimes not reliable so we’ll charge you to monitor and reboot when necessary.” Perhaps cynical on my part but remember I have experience with the joke that is Parasol. agreed - was same experience with Parasol from prior dealer. New One uses OneVision and their resources at least so far are much more helpful on the level 1 support in conjunction with the things I'm already able to troubleshoot. penn65000 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregCAMS Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Interesting article below. From site that tracks the business as well as legal impacts of items in the CI industry. The request to engage with the dealers on the advisory panel to get more feedback on the experience was rejected by the Snap CEO https://www.strata-gee.com/snap-one-seeks-to-change-the-integration-industry-model-with-subscription-saas-plan/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 This conversation is VERY interesting and already shows SNAP has a marketing/perception problem before any of this even begins....WOW! Transparency avoided right below! Done for a reason... Fishy or suspicious by someone who covers and reports monthly on integration will only lead to more problems. We shall see how their avoidance shakes out.... (I guarantee any of those dealers won't dare speak negatively now if fear of their business etc...) Ashame. ==================== So I asked to be provided with the list of the 23 integrators who were on the advisory panel and who were instrumental in designing this manufacturer program. I wanted to reach out to them to hear about it from their perspective and in their own words. Heyman responded, “I think that’s a reasonable ‘ask’.” He went on to add, “So I think it reasonable that you speak with them… We’ll come back to you on that.” My ‘Reasonable’ Request was Denied I asked that question directly to John Heyman and Graham Jaenicke face-to-face (on a Google Meet video call). Several days later, I received an email from their outside public relations person cheerfully informing me that the company had decided to host a panel discussion with members of the advisory board. I will have the opportunity to question them there. The company has also helpfully rewritten its press release to now include direct quotes from three of the panel members. I am welcome to use them freely. Hmmmm…something’s starting to sound fishy. In other words, my request was denied. Suspicious: Denying a Request the CEO Called ‘Reasonable’ I did not expect that – a shorter sub-list perhaps, but a denial was not on my radar screen. It appears that Snap One wants to be there when I question these folks – whose thoughts will be provided at an event organized by the company. And who would of course be aware of the presence of the Snap One executives. That was disappointing… I find this all a little suspicious. If everything related to the advisory panel was as presented to me, what possible reason could there be to not provide me with direct access? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 15 minutes ago, GregCAMS said: Interesting article below. From site that tracks the business as well as legal impacts of items in the CI industry. The request to engage with the dealers on the advisory panel to get more feedback on the experience was rejected by the Snap CEO https://www.strata-gee.com/snap-one-seeks-to-change-the-integration-industry-model-with-subscription-saas-plan/ thats wild. i wouldnt have thought any of those 23 integrators would have went on record to say anything bad about the program anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I find this all a little suspicious. If everything related to the advisory panel was as presented to me, what possible reason could there be to not provide me with direct access? Unannounced trade secrets. Plain and simple. People keep looking at this announcement like it's a done project that's all there is, it's just getting started, this is a lead in to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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