Cyknight

20 hours ago, bballjn64 said:

I don't believe the amp has to be programmed in. The amp is a dumb device, that is only required to be programmed in to endpoint connections. If you have a separate AMS and amp, the C4 system doesn't know what amp the AMS outputs are connected to, so it should work just by swapping the equipment.

You need to stop believing things, and start reading things.

That's not a dumb amp. It needs to be programmed in.

Just now, eggzlot said:

ill play around later - im guessing its not a bad speaker as both speakers are having the same issue, so maybe picking up some interference somewhere.  I have an open channel on another c4 amp so I am going to move the zone there for now and see what happens.  if i still get the white noise I guess its new interference but thats odd because in 10 years no much (if anything) as changed and never had interference in this area before

Didn't realize it was both speakers, though you meant only one.

True it can be odd to get interference all of a sudden, but it may not require a big change to cause it so don't rule it out. It could be a ceiling fan motor running on a powerline running close to those speaker wires that was fine for 10 years but the motor is aging - it could be the apnea machine you started using (and it was supposed to HELP with the noise....)

Yes those are two real life examples (the fan is arguably even more ironic than the apnea machine as the fan was on in the bedroom above the master and was on not to cool but to MAKE white noise)

Of course matrix OR amp issues are not eliminated as a possibility yet.

More than one road to the same endpoint on that one.

Easiest is to just use basic IF statements.

If you're talking one or two lights, you cna program it directly under the 'sunset' schedule, however it's easier to tack change and adapt if you use different Macros for each option (you can always copy and paste any lighting that doesn't change in to each macro)

WHEN scheduled event sunset occurs
	IF current month = february
		IF current day of the month = 14
			Execute Macro Valentine lighting
			STOP
	IF month is November or December {<---yes you can select more than one moth, this seems to not be noticed by many}
		Execute Macro Xmas lighting
		STOP
    IF day of the week is Saturday
    	Execute Macro Party night Lighting
        STOP
  {insert as many as you want in here then END with:}
Execute Macro Standard lighting

All those date commands are available in the standard scheduler in C4.

the STOP commands will ensure that when any one (or any string of) IF statements is 'true' it will execute that macro then stop reading the rest of the script. and by keeping the default at the bottom, if NONE of the IF statements are true, that last line will occur.

The biggest downside is that it's not possible to choose things like 'easter' or other holidays that are not calendar/date based. There's also no easy way of choosing, say, the first Monday in a month (yes it's possible but very annoying to do)

16 hours ago, bballjn64 said:

Your roof and gutter will definitely be struck before this specific cable would ever be

HAH. Tell that to my client that had a strike THROUGH THE CONCRETE PAD next to his house.

Not the house.

Not the rod ON his house.

Not the many trees around the house.

Not the comm tower some 500f away from the house

No it went into, through and cracking apart the concrete pad to fuse the re-bar as it travelled through to hit his powerline to the house.

Simplified school physics will tell you that electricity will always choose the path of least resistance: but that's HEAVILY simplified and certainly does not take all possible factors of what that path of 'least resistance' looks like in real life.

Remember folk, don't hide under a tree in a lighting storm.

20 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

I disagree that it takes constant tinkering. In the last month I have made 1 change to my house... 

Indeed.

Constant tinkering is a CHOICE. Nothing wrong with wanting to tweak things to a high degree, and yes that will take effort or money (to have someone to do it for you).

Also I strongly disagree that 'the bulk of the programming is locked away'. Adding/removing devices: yes, so is changing conections, but that is NOT the 'bulk' of programming on a system. The 'bulk' ARE those personal tweaks and the vast majority of that is 'pure' programming which is not locked but fully available in ComposerHE.

2 hours ago, eggzlot said:

got one of those ground loop things - it at least lessens the white noise so when you walk by you do not hear it, but if you put your ear up to the speaker, it is still there...I turned the input sensitivity knob down to ~30% (Was up to about 60%) and that made no difference either

I'd try the speaker output swap then (could even swap left right if it's clearly in one not the other, but different zone is best) - if groundloop lessens but doesn't eliminate, chances are it's a bad speaker or a speakerline picking up interference.

7 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

https://www.amazon.com/rca-ground-loop-isolator/s?k=rca+ground+loop+isolator

any particular kind?  some have cables off each end (1 male, 1 female), others have female inputs on one end and male cables on the other....I guess they all accomplish the same task?  this would sit between the matrix and amp?

Exactly that, something that has female in and male leads out would be super simple to insert, and yes between matrix and amp.

To be clear, I'm in no way guaranteeing it'll work, but it's simple (and cheap) to try for yourself.

I'd go with a cheap one: sincerely doubt paying 4 times the amount will make any difference at all.

1 hour ago, bballjn64 said:

really? I originally had an EA3, and now have an EA5 running my system, and just tried it again 2 minutes ago to see if it was an old issue that was resolved. It's literally 3-5 seconds for it to respond to volume changes, song changes, play/pause etc. I'm just using Youtube Music, and airplay on an Iphone 14 Pro. I've had this issue across multiple iOS devices and multiple C4 controllers now. Any thoughts? Am I the only one with this issue?

Really.

If DIGITIZING something from a piece of hardware, (ie record player, cd player or 3rd party streamer to controller) then yes a 2 second delay occurs, but I've never noticed anything of the sort myself, nor had any client complain on it (and I use shairbridge on EVERY system I deal with as a test source)

Understand: not saying you're imagining it: but it's not normal at all.

2 hours ago, bballjn64 said:

and I don't know how anyone else deals with it

? Probably because we don't see it? Matter of milliseconds in all my systems...

find something that has rca outputs (preferably *gasp* something like a cd/dvd player), put amp feed into is vs coming out of matrix.

Start a music stream, leave dvd player off. Mark if no white noise? Turn dvd player on and play that cd,then stop but leave player on. No white noise? turn dvd player off. No white noise? Disconnect dvd player rca out No white noise?

That should tell you what ISNT the source of the hum at least

If hum persists through all of those, see if you can swap speaker cables temporarily (ie you know ensuite and kitchen swap them). Try playing the kitchen (which is now enuite) and turn off and the other way around If white noise is persistent in the same location speaker wire is picking up interference (or possible a bad speaker)

In all cases a quick dirty and cheap option to try is to get an rca groundloop isolator and put it in between the matrix and the amp. May or may not work but under 20 to order from amazon and free to return if it doesnt work

Control4 works perfectly but depends on:

-A good C4 dealer to design it and set it up

-On large new builds a builder and architect that are willing to cooperate

-A GOOD network (usually done by dealer)

All too often a builder or architect has existing working relationships (if not contracts) with:

-Electricians that refuse to do wiring differently (or charge an arm and a leg, especially true with centralized lighting) because they don't want to......and because they don't want to make less money (again, especially central lighting wiring should be CHEAPER than standard lighting with 3 and 4 ways everywhere) - or these days they'll refuse to accept that a whole house can simply be done with low voltage lighting (you know, it takes away their jobs.....)

-Blind providers (that don't integrate well). Architects and interior designers especially on this one. Hunter Douglas comes to mind. There's a good DRIVER for it, but the API has it's limits and more importantly, all too often the 'smart' design portion doesn't get set up well by the blind company (so even the HD app is finicky, and if that is finicky so will integration)

-HVAC contractors - in these scenarios very often it's carrier (which is a pain) or it's infloor heating from some sort of third party control system (if they just used Tekmar for these....)

Many builders, architects and interior designers (and for that matter specialty contractors, including some C4 dealers) are stuck in their ways, and not open to changes of how they do things, which will cause friction. It takes a skilled dealer/salesman/general contractor to overcome that to ensure whatever is chosen.

To use zones as event triggers, you need to get generic sensors bound to the appropriate zone in the security system.

This is the same across ANY alarm panel driver, and yes the Clare will support that.

10 hours ago, TheTechHipster said:

Crestron is the Maserati of the industry

Overpriced, silly expensive to maintain and generally unreliable, and once you have it, no-one will want to take it from you?

Uhm. The Control4 one?

I suppose my main point was that there's armoured CAT cable out there (direct burial as well) the foregoes the need for counduit, especially if there;s no other reason for conduit (ie pulling cables after the fact, or too many twist and turns to be able to do so).

Sure armoured cable is more expensive, but it's likely not much of a difference over outdoor rated cat plus conduit - and much easier to candle.

43 minutes ago, zaphod said:

That's expensive stuff - $43/m.

Better?

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/belden-121700a-24-4pr-stranded-cat5e-datatuff-armored-twisted-pair-cable

Didn't look too closely at the original link, wasn't suggesting supplier.

There's dual cat versions out there as well, usually you're looking under industrial cabling

https://www.larsonelectronics.com/product/273417/100-meter-hazardous-location-metal-clad-network-cable-24-awg-aluminum-interlock-armor-pvc-jacket-100-meter-cat5e-ethernet-cable?utm_campaign=18138854760&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=&keyword=&adgroupid=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA8YyuBhBSEiwA5R3-E3BkmuEphRXDIIpoZXtvoCER8jgvZtkWfp4O61xke-EdRpP8CIBKdxoCbmQQAvD_BwE

Armored cat cable. Can ground armor if needed for surge/lightning. Nice for outside wall mounting

I have not yet: Once there's a driver confirmed to work I suspect we will start using them for some sites.

Ooooh missed the even Holier Necro Thread Robin!

And the answer is still yes

On 2/2/2024 at 2:50 PM, C4 BEAR said:

Is the subscription code the same as the license key?

Holy Necro thread Batman!

But yes it is the same. Well assuming you mean the license key for HE, not a license key for some random other thing.

9 minutes ago, Shoe said:

I'm just still struggling to understand where the problem lies

In how C4 handles in/output selection and tracking.

9 minutes ago, Shoe said:

you don't have to assign the matrix input

YOU don't do any of that, Control4 does - and yes, it will screw that up.

8 minutes ago, Shoe said:

That's fair.

If you think you're pointing out that you're not assuming but reading it: No you are not.

It doesn't STATE that eARC can be send over Moip.

The way that's written it doesn't clarify a whole lot at all, and most likely -to me at least- means that much like a controller, adding an SA1 means you're adding a Ryff to Moip transmitter. https://www.control4.com/help/bin/moip/900-ig/Content/Ryff to MoIP.htm

In other words similar to a controller (or a TriadOne for that matter)

Presumably it can feed the analogue input (Like a controller, or a TriadOne), maybe even the optical or digi coax) input (which he TriadOne cannot) though I doubt it.

I very much doubt it'll do eARC (with Atmos down sampling to stereo) to Ryff at all, let alone do it as a (Ryff to) MoiP transmitter.

20 minutes ago, Shoe said:

Core3>Matrix zone input 1>zone output 16>Sonos Port>Sonos Port>Matrix input 16

Yep, same thing, same problem.

21 minutes ago, Shoe said:

I'm not sure why connecting inputs and outputs from the Port would be a physical problem

It isn't. It's a software problem,

Select TuneIn from C4 to play into a Sonos (via the port) which then outputs it to the Sonos speakers. But because you're feeding tunein via the matrix, it'll use the port output to feed the Port the TuneIn signal, which then feeds the matrix, which feeds the port which feeds .......

C4 is NOT setup to allow this sort of double feed in/outs and it WILL cause situations where weird crap will happen.

This isn't a Sonos thing, it's a C4 thing. Same would happen if you feed receiver from a matrix, then feed the receiver back into the matrix. Or a Bluesound. Or a matrix input into a controller (and have controller outputs into that same matrix). Or feed a matrix output directly back into itself.

Some days it'll work, some days you'll be posting here that something broke and what is wrong with C4 - and the answer will be that it's not wired up properly.

15 minutes ago, Shoe said:

eARC and then can moip it to other rooms.

I would not assume it can eARC the source over moip, it's supposed to be counted as a MoiP audio output transmitter similarly to how controller outputs count as moip audio transmitters (in other words, you can moip one more stream).

How Moip transmitters and C4 controllers/outputs work is it's own discussion though (I'll stick to it sort of sucks as it doesn't ADD streams, just uses up streams)

12 hours ago, ERDrPC said:

It's 2024 - any updates for a c4 multi-point lock?

Not really that I'm aware of. There's little out there for smart multipoint locks to begin with.

If there's a zwave one then it could get integrated (provided you have a Core controller) but I've been monitoring it to a degree and there's just not much out there to begin with, let alone something that is currently able to integrate.