phantomgordon

If you have a touch screen or iPad in guided access/kiosk mode, you might want full control of cameras (quickly rewind backwards to see what happened a minute ago or pan a camera). One could say about almost all services with C4 integrations: why not just use native app? Ideally, C4 handles it so you don’t need lots of apps. That said, I understand the power of the native app and why a lot of people like it. Perhaps in my ideal world I have the option to do either.
 
 
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Is there anyway to access the video via an IP stream? Like H.265/ H.264 and web or mobile app? Using your approach, you need a lot of heavy and $$ matrix switching or expensive SDVoE equipment, baluns etc. And it wouldn’t work over mobile. Savant does something like this (I think) with its Apple TV app and their integration with ICRealtime. Users can view and interact with video all over IP (not just NVR control) as opposed to your approach. Your comment is very helpful and I suspect you’re solution is the only one. Just thought I’d ask


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unifi protect doesn’t have ONVIF support so my understanding was integration with C4 with full functionality is limited. Interested in what others have to say


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Yes the same ridiculous lag as on your phone. If lag is an issue go T3 100%

yeah...the touchscreens seem bananas. We all know what those kind of LCD screens and ARM processors cost (i.e. not a lot). They're not even using state-of-the-art SOCs or displays (4k, 120hz etc)

I realize that’s not how the industry works “chief”. I learned that on this forum and politely thanked people for explaining that C4 doesn’t allow dealers to discount. I got it. I never said I wanted to buy used stuff on eBay. I politely asked if there was a way just to buy hardware.

Here’s a better example: lots of dealers I’ve spoken with push Crestron over C4 in part because they make more money on more $$ hardware. That’s the kind of thing that exemplifies what I think is a problem.

I get the way the industry works. I’ve politely thanked people for explaining that. No need to pile on.


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Did you read anything I said ? For the umteenth time: I want to pay an integrator !!!! FOR INTEGRATION. Not for shipping me hardware
 
I’m not alone. This is an incredibly obvious sentiment
 
 
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But not by the act of reselling. By doing something in addition to the reselling...which is exactly what they should be paid for. That's my point. I can't for the life of me understand why that is so controverial or offensive. And I would wager the vast number of consumers would agree; has nothing to do with my particular needs

Said I wouldn't reply but I figured saying "thanks" and that I appreciate your comment here doesn't count    Apologies if I ruffled any feathers.  Again, that's a mighty kind response and it's sincerely appreciated

A lot of the comments from first-time responders weren't so respectful or kind...please recognize that. (e.g. comments like "does OP understand what overhead is? Does OP understand that selling C4 equipment is different than selling a gallon of milk?"  are obnoxious when I repeatedly acknowledged  dealers/integrators deserve to be well compensated for their expertise well in excess of 5% hardware margins).  Thanks for your helpful offer (I mean that sincerely). I will take a look in for-sale forum.

I never said I didn't want to pay the integrator. I just don't want to pay him 50% margins for hardware. iI want to pay him for his time and expertise in INTEGRATING.  It's much cleaner that way. If I suddenly switch from a USAI to a DMF fixture, he shouldn't get more money. that is completely different than your Best Buy analogy where the business is only about selling hardware. Similarly, to address Michael's point, the marginal cost of using a computer to process a credit card is zero. And the credit card processing fees for, say, a basic Visa, are nowhere near 5%-7%. If I'm wrong, I'm happy to pay cash: problem solved. The point is about transparency. Just bill me for time and expertise...not hidden markups. With hidden markups, there is an incentive to get me to buy more $$ equipment. Not the case with a straight consulting and integration fee. If what an integrator wants is a healthy long-term relationship (which IS what I want), charging huge markups on hardware is the wrong way to go about it in my opinion. 99% of customers would agree with me I suspect

Of course. But that needs to go both ways. If they provide great service, they should have nothing to hide. Pretending they do magic behind a curtain (i.e. not allowing a technical guy like me access to gear or transparent pricing) is a big fail on their side.  If I have the grit and time to find great hardware pricing, why should I pay them for that? I'd like to pay them directly for their expertise in things I CAN'T do well or don't have the interest or time in doing well (e.g. structured wiring or certain programming tasks). They shouldn't get paid MORE for a DMF downlight than a USAI equivalent just because I chose a more expensive fixture.  I just want clear, honest pricing for their time and effort. Hiding margin in hardware is a bad strategy for THEM if they'd like to build a long-term relationship.

Hi,
Been browsing forums and can't quite find an answer to what I'm looking for. I'm a pretty technically savvy developer who is building a custom home in a large U.S. city. The system I'm looking to build includes distributed audio, distributed video, shades, lighting, security, surveillance, HVAC, commercial grade networking etc. etc.. I have done an enormous amount of research and have definitive ideas about how I want to do the build out which almost certainly is a six figure job.  I have talked to many integrators in town, many of whom seem far too eager to obfuscate hardware pricing and charge ridiculous markups on hardware. (Yes, I understand the business models of the C4s of the world wherein they're not selling direct but instead selling through distributors and trying to ensure the integrators have margin. I'm not opposed to some margin - like 5%-7%) I respect integrators' capabilities (e.g. build-out of structured wiring, real-world experience, monitoring etc) and want to pay them. However, I'd like to pay them for their consulting and labor not for hardware (or at least very little). Is there a way I can purchase hardware from a remote dealer who can provide light consulting services (happy to pay a healthy 4 figures for phone and design consults) and provide hardware at cost? The hardware would likely come from a variety of vendors including Lutron, C4, USAI, and quite a few others. I was thinking maybe I could apply to be a device driver developer to get access to hardware (at least for C4); is this difficult and would it work? (It would still only solve my problem for C4...not Lutron, USAI, and distributed audio gear) I'd be happy to share any of my work.
 
Any/all ideas and comments would be welcome!

Of course. But that needs to go both ways. If they provide great service, they should have nothing to hide. Pretending they do magic behind a curtain (i.e. not allowing a technical guy like me access to gear or transparent pricing) is a big fail on their side.  If I have the grit and time to find great hardware pricing, why should I pay them for that? I'd like to pay them directly for their expertise in things I CAN'T do well or don't have the interest or time in doing well (e.g. structured wiring or certain programming tasks). They shouldn't get paid MORE for a DMF downlight than a USAI equivalent just because I chose a more expensive fixture.  I just want clear, honest pricing for their time and effort. Hiding margin in hardware is a bad strategy for THEM if they'd like to build a long-term relationship.

I got quotes from dealers ranging from 60,000-100,000. Pieced it together via buy sell trade forums and various other sites for about .25 cents on the dollar. Spent another 500-700 on various drivers fees. Spent $1000 on a remote integrator to program it all, he basically told me where to plug what. I consider myself technically savvy. Ended up cutting the price of my project by 60%
 
this site is an amazing place for research and knowledge. To be honest I learned “newer” methodologies on how to do things here than dealing with the 4 local dealers in Oklahoma

All the Pentair development seems to be going in to the newer Intellicenter product and ScreenLogic (Intellitouch and the older product range) is stable and good so I don’t expect any significant development there.  In fact, I would have made the same comment 2 years go (re IntelliTouch and ScreenLogic) and there has been virtually no change in that time. Correspondingly, IntelliCenter has been launched in that period with tons (around 40 - albeit mostly beta versions) of app and onboard software updates in that time.

I’m trying to add the Pentair Intellicenter driver for the pool we’re nearing completion on, but it errors out and says it can’t add the driver to the project. Looks like the driver was updated in October of 2019. Anyone know why the driver won’t install? Is the integration not worthwhile?

He's talking specifically to the driver called 'Room Control' which allows you to more easily program favourite selections and more.
If you have three tidal accounts, you would simply add three tidal drivers, get them named after the person, and each selects their own wherever you want (provided your setup supports it, ie you have at least three streams available from controllers into your audio matrix switch/amplifiers)

@phantomgordon - I would highly recommend Tidal.  Great integration.  Yes, you use different Tidal accounts in different zones perfectly.  As @Cyknight says, we are talking about the Room Control Driver.  Tidal / Deezer does not integrate as well with this as some other streaming services although you can program around this and get the identical result (in the case of Tidal, and, I would assume, Deezer).

Have you looked at the Chowmain driver for eGuage? https://www.egauge.net. I’ve looked at all of these. eGuage is cheap and effective because it is connected to all circuits in the breaker. Sense has a prettier interface but no C4 integration and is inaccurate because it is not connected to all circuits. Instead it uses AI to guess loads which is amazing but ultimately less accurate. There are really good reviews and YouTube videos on Sense showing that for many people, the AI has lots of inaccuracies even after several weeks of training. eGuage is more complicated to install but is 100% accurate instantly
 
There are a couple of monitor-only alternatives to egauge that also connect to all the breakers. But eGuage has a C4 driver
 
A more expensive option which also has a C4 integration in the adapt system from pantech. It not only does monitoring but it actually has a smart breaker control for dynamic load support (lots to discuss here). I met the guys at Cedia. It’s very similar to savant’s racepoint system
 
https://pantechdesign.com/adaptenergy
 
https://drivercentral.io/platforms/control4-drivers/utility/adapt-energy/
 
 
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Will do... so far, all I have seen is the documentation.  I expect to have e-gauge fully installed and one or both drivers up and running at my beach house in a couple of weeks.  Will report back then.  Looking at the documentation, I suspect that one gives more access to variables and the other gives “prettier” feedback using experience buttons.  But I may be wrong!

Have you looked at the Chowmain driver for eGuage? https://www.egauge.net. I’ve looked at all of these. eGuage is cheap and effective because it is connected to all circuits in the breaker. Sense has a prettier interface but no C4 integration and is inaccurate because it is not connected to all circuits. Instead it uses AI to guess loads which is amazing but ultimately less accurate. There are really good reviews and YouTube videos on Sense showing that for many people, the AI has lots of inaccuracies even after several weeks of training. eGuage is more complicated to install but is 100% accurate instantly
 
There are a couple of monitor-only alternatives to egauge that also connect to all the breakers. But eGuage has a C4 driver
 
A more expensive option which also has a C4 integration in the adapt system from pantech. It not only does monitoring but it actually has a smart breaker control for dynamic load support (lots to discuss here). I met the guys at Cedia. It’s very similar to savant’s racepoint system
 
https://pantechdesign.com/adaptenergy
 
https://drivercentral.io/platforms/control4-drivers/utility/adapt-energy/
 
 
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Universal Mini apps are drivers available through Control4's online database, that work with app-enabled devices, that allow you to show the icon for the service on the user interfaces, and when those service icons are chosen, the device providing the service is selected.
They are 'universal' in the sense that there is not a specific Netflix mini-app for Roku, and a different one for Amazon Fire TV.  It's the same mini-app, it can connect to either of the devices that supply the service.
It's a nice addition to Control4's UI, and makes it easy for dealers to directly expose services to the UI for the homeowner.
RyanE

Despite having (2) cable boxes and and AppleTV in the rack, the only thing that ever gets use with my kids is Roku mostly because of  the mini-drivers for quick access to Netflix, Amazon, Disney, etc.  I'm debating getting a second Roku - is there any "good" way to utilize the same mini drivers such that if one TV is watching a Roku source and a second TV requests a different Roku channel that the alternate Roku gets routed to the second TV and not the first that is currently streaming a different channel to a different tv?  

YouTube TV just added PBS and keeps adding more channels all the time (no HBO yet but you can get it with Amazon Prime as an add-on or HBO Direct). I love YouTube TV for its super ease of use and access from anydevice and unlimited cloud DVR. I have been using it from when it first appeared and have had very few issues ever, even when I had only 3-5 Mbs internet service at times and still got HD-quality at least at 720p.
C4 works great with Roku and the C4 Mini-port driver so I can create direct links to YouTube TV in the Navigators (which you can't do with an Apple TV as there are no miniport drivers for it yet .. if ever).
However... I wish I could create Favorite Channels in YouTube TV like you can with Cable, Satellite and Broadcast sources... and my customers are starting to ask for that. It's probably a YouTube issue not a Roku or Control4 issue.