knowitall Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 You guys think sonos gives 2 shits about control4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatheed Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 You must be new @elodesigns. Control4 never pre-announces features. It was announced with the Sonos-endorsed driver that the current functionality was at the whim on Sonos. Guess what? They whimmed. Go cry to Sonos. Only they can change this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 I think @knowitall nailed it on the head. Sonos don't care about control4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy.trochez Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Tesla currently allows use of Spotify control thru their own interface (outside the US) and they give owners a free premium account (probably paid by Tesla). So there is precedent for Spotify to work with other apps and they have no plan to stop offering this as far as I know. So to say Spotify shut down all access outside their own app is false. They apparently just don't want to play nice with C4. On a side note... pm me if you want to sell your Sonos gear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextGenAV Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I've been waiting for this to happen for a while and stopped installing Sonos based systems about 6 months ago. Spotify integration has always been a problem and I now direct people to using Deezer as an alternative or additional music streaming source. The problem with Spotify connect is that it will only stream to a single player from a single account. This is fine if you want multiple rooms listening to the same thing. I also find using multiple apps to do something a step backwards in integration. Way back during my Crestron and AMX days we installed proper multi-room systems (audio matrix / amp) and this is a route I'm going back to. If there is Sonos in the system then it is as a single source. So each room will just see a Listen source as Sonos, when selected then the user can use the Sonos app to select music. All other sources are provided by the EA-5 / EA-3 or dedicated audio servers such as Autonomic, CasaTunes or anything other than Sonos. Really pretty much anything to keep the user within the Control4 UI, which gives me more control over how they interface with the system. Maybe by getting away from Sonos we will start to make reasonable margins on equipment rather than being held to ransom by Sonos dealer policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 33 minutes ago, NextGenAV said: I've been waiting for this to happen for a while and stopped installing Sonos based systems about 6 months ago. Spotify integration has always been a problem and I now direct people to using Deezer as an alternative or additional music streaming source. The problem with Spotify connect is that it will only stream to a single player from a single account. This is fine if you want multiple rooms listening to the same thing. I also find using multiple apps to do something a step backwards in integration. Way back during my Crestron and AMX days we installed proper multi-room systems (audio matrix / amp) and this is a route I'm going back to. If there is Sonos in the system then it is as a single source. So each room will just see a Listen source as Sonos, when selected then the user can use the Sonos app to select music. All other sources are provided by the EA-5 / EA-3 or dedicated audio servers such as Autonomic, CasaTunes or anything other than Sonos. Really pretty much anything to keep the user within the Control4 UI, which gives me more control over how they interface with the system. Maybe by getting away from Sonos we will start to make reasonable margins on equipment rather than being held to ransom by Sonos dealer policies. This is great... Until the other services join spotify in locking down too, which I believe to be inevitable. Then we all go back to buying our music and keeping it on a NAS like the good ole days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextGenAV Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Or maybe other services will see it as an opportunity to poach customers from Spotify. I use NuVo for my multi-room at the moment and Deezer works really well with Control4 on NuVo. I can understand the frustration of end-users, and I'm sure most of the flack will be directed at Control4 and the customers dealers, but our hands are tied as are Control4 to the way we integrate with music services. Users with home automation systems are in the minority and neither Sonos nor Spotify would see it as a good use of resources to adjust there business models to satisfy a minority of people. Sonos sell boxes and Spotify ... well they don't make any money. I'm sure it will all sort itself out soon and we will all forget it even happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminaldisclaimer Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 If I have a bunch of Sonos speakers but bought a Heos link for access to Spotify, would I be able to use Control4 to play Heos Spotify on my Sonos system? Presumably, the Heos Link would need to be hooked up to a controller's audio input, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextGenAV Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I would probably hold on that, the reason this is all happening is a change in the way Spotifys API works. I'm sure these changes will affect most systems that interact with Spotify. It appears to be a move to force users to use the Spotify app and interact with devices that way. From the Spotify API documentation: "For Home Automation Partners We are still working on a solution that will fit your typical setup. In the meanwhile feel free to implement Spotify Connect as described above." So lets see what happens ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 On 2016-12-08 at 10:22 AM, knowitall said: You guys think sonos gives 2 shits about control4? They care about selling product in a tightening market - and integration with smart home options is a potetnial steady income they'd love to have (remember - it's not just C4). It's SPOTIFY who couldn't care less about that market as for them it's such a niche (more so than Sonos, Sonos ITSELF is a niche to them). I truely think it's not Sonos driving the changes, it's the service providers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 19 minutes ago, Cyknight said: I truely think it's not Sonos driving the changes, it's the service providers. Yep, Spotify knows that eventually all the streaming services will have relatively the same content. They want to lock people into their UI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Which ultimately doesn't make sense. As long as people are paying you for a subscription who cares. That is unless advertising is coming to even paid subscriptions. Which again pushes us back to just buying music, at least for me as I'm not dealing with adds. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, cdepaola said: Which ultimately doesn't make sense. As long as people are paying you for a subscription who cares. That is unless advertising is coming to even paid subscriptions. Which again pushes us back to just buying music, at least for me as I'm not dealing with adds. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Actually it does make sense, if all are equal, why pay more for one than the other. Being 'locked' into a user interface, 'because you KNOW it' will prevent many from making changes so save a few bucks, or even prevents them from gong to a newer, better interface (at least short term) 'just cause'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Actually it does make sense, if all are equal, why pay more for one than the other. Being 'locked' into a user interface, 'because you KNOW it' will prevent many from making changes so save a few bucks, or even prevents them from gong to a newer, better interface (at least short term) 'just cause'. Because they aren't the same. It's who has the best catalogue, I've switched so many times to get a better/bigger catalogue with great diversity. Their eco systems are all fairly similar and yes I've subscribed to nearly all of them. Ad revenue or data collection is why they want you in their app. Most of these services are to some degree struggling on the revenue side and it's not going to get better as artists and studios try to play catch up on their revenue. So subscriptions will need to go up or they will need to find alternative revenue streams such as ads and or big data. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 20 minutes ago, cdepaola said: Because they aren't the same. It's who has the best catalogue But his point was that eventually they WOULD be the same in that regard (now, whether that is true or false is another matter). 21 minutes ago, cdepaola said: Ad revenue or data collection is why they want you in their app I would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arden.ballard Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 So, let me get this straight: Can you use Spotify with C4 at all? I'm in the build/plan phase and wasn't planning to use sonos, just in-wall stuff. Can I not use Spotify with the c4 UI? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy.trochez Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 Control4 doesn't support Spotify in their EA processor. You can integrate Sonos, but you only have access to Sonos favorites in the C4 interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextGenAV Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 1 hour ago, arden.ballard said: So, let me get this straight: Can you use Spotify with C4 at all? I'm in the build/plan phase and wasn't planning to use sonos, just in-wall stuff. Can I not use Spotify with the c4 UI? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Yes you can, but not fully integrated into the UI. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by in-wall stuff, but if you are talking about a Control4 audio matrix or matrix/amp then its not a disaster for a Spotify fan. You need a source (Sonos, NuVo etc) to stream the music to. In C4 you select that you want to listen to the source and then use Spotify app or desktop application to decide what you want to hear. If you have a good integrator they will be able to advise based on your requirements. Go to there demo area and play with the kit using various music services. At the moment I have been installing NuVo and pushing Deezer as the integration is excellent. The NuVo app is terrible compared to Sonos, but if you want C4 to work with an audio system I find it excellent. It's what I have ...and Sonos ... and Spotify ... and Echo ... and Napster ... and Google Home when it's out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLA Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 6 hours ago, arden.ballard said: So, let me get this straight: Can you use Spotify with C4 at all? I'm in the build/plan phase and wasn't planning to use sonos, just in-wall stuff. Can I not use Spotify with the c4 UI? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I assume by in wall you are referring to your speakers. I have 3 Sonos connects and play Spotify through them along with I Heart Radio and a person of Pandora and I'm not having any problem with Spotify or the Spotify menu on C$. I control Spotify with my IPhone using the C4 GUI. I very seldom see a need to stream Spotify directly from my phone so I haven't tested that in quite awhile. I'll give it a whirl sometime this weekend. I also have Rhapsody / Napster, another version of Pandora and Tune In. Those services stream directly to my HC 800. The quality seems to be similiar whether streaming from Sonos or directly from my Controller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3D - Benn Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 21 hours ago, NextGenAV said: Maybe by getting away from Sonos we will start to make reasonable margins on equipment rather than being held to ransom by Sonos dealer policies. While I agree completely with your principle I've been unsuccessful on almost every account of pulling away from sonos. And it all comes down to the fact that every one has heard / seen Sonos, where as the alternatives they have not. I'm sure you know how difficult it is to convince some one to install an unknown product (to them) when they have seen another product in their friends house (+TV ads, shops etc). The big problem now is that if they insist on Sonos I have to say ok but you wont have this or that functionality unless you use the Sonos app. Which ultimately completely backtracks on at least some of the original reasoning for the Control 4 install Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arden.ballard Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 I assume by in wall you are referring to your speakers. I have 3 Sonos connects and play Spotify through them along with I Heart Radio and a person of Pandora and I'm not having any problem with Spotify or the Spotify menu on C$. I control Spotify with my IPhone using the C4 GUI. I very seldom see a need to stream Spotify directly from my phone so I haven't tested that in quite awhile. I'll give it a whirl sometime this weekend. I also have Rhapsody / Napster, another version of Pandora and Tune In. Those services stream directly to my HC 800. The quality seems to be similiar whether streaming from Sonos or directly from my Controller. Yes, I was referring to in-wall speakers. I wanted a build without sonos, but we are heavy Spotify users. But like someone mentioned previously, as an end user, I'm going to the product that offers the best UI (I'm training my wife on this system--who can't program the clock on the microwave) This will be interesting to follow, for sure. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallom Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Fusion Research music servers supports Spotify and have C4 drivers. I will be ordering one soon to test it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istreich Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Is Deezer Elite available now on Control4 (HD quality) or is it still exclusive to Sonos? I know they have an early exclusive but I thought it was limited in time. Right now, I am still streaming Deezer via my Sonos as opposed to natively from Control4. But with all the "mess" on the Sonos driver and as I only use Deezer and Pandora, I am considering bypassing Sonos and going native to Control4 on my HC800. At least for now as I only need one feed. Missing something or does it make sense? And I guess I could always have a second feed from my Sonos box if I wanted to or will it create conflicts with the drivers? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLA Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 17 hours ago, arden.ballard said: Yes, I was referring to in-wall speakers. I wanted a build without sonos, but we are heavy Spotify users. But like someone mentioned previously, as an end user, I'm going to the product that offers the best UI (I'm training my wife on this system--who can't program the clock on the microwave) This will be interesting to follow, for sure. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Hahaha I hear you loud and clear. My wife is untrainable. If it works off of electricity or battery power it's a time bomb with my wife. She has other great qualities. This AM I tried streaming Spotify with my iPhone and it worked flawlessly with all of the Spotify search functions working perfectly. I also streamed from Sonos again and that worked fine as well. I hope my luck doesn't run out, unless I just don't understand what I am missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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