pinkoos Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Invited a local dealer that my wife found through recommendations from her facebook into my home to walk through and find ways to upgrade my 8 year old system. I received the estimate yesterday and it came back quite a bit more than I had anticipated - about $15K whereas I kind of had a $10K budget in mind thinking that about half of that would be a new matrix and then new network gear, etc. following after. I'm wondering if some of you can take a look and see where in the quote I can either ask for less costly gear and/or things that I could eliminate completely? I've blacked out personal identifying information. Lastly, I'm not trying to moan about this dealer's pricing - I know you all have to make money on this. What I'm really wanting to know is what things I can substitute for cheaper alternative and what those alternatives would be specifically. If anyone wants to comment about the pricing quoted, that is fine but that's not my main goal in posting here. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic30101 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Can't view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave w Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 attachments not working.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkoos Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 Sorry, just fixed it - had uploaded them as PDFs, but then you guys would have to d/l and then view. I just changed them to jpgs. Let me know if you can't view now. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 There's no a heck of a lot in it - so there isn't a lot to change. The one item would be the Video switch, but if you want reliable, proven, you're not going to drop the price by much....if the dealer is even willing to use different gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkoos Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 For example, maybe the network gear and the cameras can be swapped out for something equivalent but cheaper? I'm just looking for ways to present this to my wife in order to minimize her obligatory eyeroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SY3 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 $1700 for 3 access points seems high. While I don't use Araknis equipment, can't comment if that's reasonable. Been using Ubiquiti and rarely have any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkoos Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, SY3 said: $1700 for 3 access points seems high. While I don't use Araknis equipment, can't comment if that's reasonable. Been using Ubiquiti and rarely have any issues. Yes, I was particularly surprised by the home network section of the quote. Granted, I'm only familiar with consumer-oriented hardware (Netgear, Linksys, etc.), but $600 for a switch and $500 for each of 3 access points really caught me off guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LollerAgent Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 I would not pay $1700 for 3 access points. You can get Ubiquiti AC Lights for $85/ea or PRO's for ~$130/ea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkoos Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 I'm not familiar with Araknis, but it sounds like it must be some high end networking gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SY3 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 So you're really doing 3 projects - 1. Video distribution 2. Network equipment upgrade 3. Video surveillance - are they running new cables? Might be helpful to break them into smaller chunks. Also, sounds like this was your first quote. I would get at least 3 and compare them unless you are set on this dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkoos Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 3. Not running new cables - the pre-existing camera runs have combo cables including coax, power and cat5e. The cat5e are not being used for the current cameras. I currently have 4 cameras and the quote includes two new cameras for which I guess he would need to run cables. I may just cut out those 2 extra cameras and only replace the existing ones. I've got a call into my original installing dealer from 8 years ago, so will see if/when they can come out for a quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 It looks ok to me the guy does need to make a couple of quid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkoos Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 Oh, and you'd be surprised how difficult it is to get any dealer here in the Houston area to come out to do anything smaller than a new installation. I guess this upgrade may be big enough to entice some dealers, but most don't even reply or respond to small requests/inquiries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LollerAgent Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 20 minutes ago, pinkoos said: I'm not familiar with Araknis, but it sounds like it must be some high end networking gear. It's SnapAV's networking brand. I wouldn't say it's super "high end," but it's the choice of many integrators that use SnapAV simply because of the support. I'm sure it works just fine, but personally, I wouldn't pay that price for wireless access points when there are proven alternatives that can be had for much cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfiveo1 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Networking price(hardware) looks high to me, and you could probably save a few thousand on the 4k video matrix as well Here is an 8x8 https://www.amazon.com/SWITCHER-SELECTOR-CRESTRON-CONTROL4-AUTOMATION/dp/B07D7XCPDF/ref=lp_15343946011_1_1?srs=15343946011&ie=UTF8&qid=1527622102&sr=8-1&th=1 EDIT: DAMN this includes 8 baluns!!!! so its way less than half the price some guy bought one of these a few months back and said it was working just fine in his environment. I dont even think the Control4 one is HDR 4K 60hz YUV444 but dont quote me on that This is what I believe most people run from a WAP: supports 2.4/5ghz https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-802-11ac-Dual-Radio-UAP-AC-PRO-US/dp/B015PRO512/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1527622287&sr=1-1&keywords=ubiquiti+wap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkoos Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, blackfiveo1 said: Networking price(hardware) looks high to me, and you could probably save a few thousand on the 4k video matrix as well Save money on the matrix by buying something different? If so, what? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackfiveo1 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 FWIW I bought all Cisco (switches) equipment for less than that. Its been rock solid(duh) for 3 years and have never rebooted it. If this stuff is in a nice shiny rack that you want to show off to all your friends maybe you pay an extra few hundred bucks for the "sleek design". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 I think you have to weigh if you want this dealer to support you long term and if this price is acceptable OR if you want to personally take on some technical risk by modifying the equipment list. Likely this dealer will be less interested in supporting you if you reduce his profit and maintainability by moving away from the equipment they are experienced using. I don't see audio. Do you really need video matrix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkoos Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 blackfiveo1, those are some crazy prices compared to my estimate. Wow. Pounce, yes, you are right, I don't want to penny pinch but I also don't want to spend through the nose if I don't have to. In terms of reducing his profit, are there distributor deals in place with dealers that have them push certain brands/products over cheaper alternatives b/c they get some kind of incentive back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkoos Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 33 minutes ago, Pounce said: I don't see audio. Do you really need video matrix? I have an AVR and an amp. The video matrix is b/c my original matrix doesn't do HDMI. It was installed 8 years ago, so I guess back then everything was run over component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pounce Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 1 minute ago, pinkoos said: I have an AVR and an amp. The video matrix is b/c my original matrix doesn't do HDMI. It was installed 8 years ago, so I guess back then everything was run over component. You do not have speakers in the ceiling or walls etc? No whole house audio? What does your TV watching habits include? Netflix, Hulu, Prime? Live TV? I think you could save a bunch of money by eliminating the matrix and simply steaming to local TV's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkoos Posted May 29, 2018 Author Share Posted May 29, 2018 I do have whole house audio - speakers in ceilings in multiple rooms. The audio from the sources output to those speakers. I have Comcast cable, but don't use their boxes - instead use two Tivo boxes distributed to all the TVs in the house. I actually held off on the Xfinity boxes b/c of the problems using them with my original matrix. That's why I stuck with the Tivos but may consider dumping the Tivos and using the Comcast boxes if I upgrade my matrix. We use Netflix via an Apple TV and Amazon Prime Video via a Roku that is locally connected to just one TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil12011 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 The only thing I see that "might" be worth comparing is the networking. We use Araknis and Ubiquiti pretty much exclusively. Yes the Araknis WAP's are more expensive, but you'll also have them and the other networking gear on OVRC, and Snap's support is great. If something is defective, they'll usually overnight a new one. You could swap in Ubiquiti, but the support won't be there. Granted, I haven't seen many Ubiquiti failures, but I digress. Other than that, I don't see much that is worth changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Get 2-3 quotes to compare. Ask about service and warranty. Personally I wouldn’t nickel and dime much in this space. If you don’t need rewiring and you want to hand pick hardware maybe find a remote dealer here. Maybe 1-2 with different skills or product knowledge to help. Your local guy likely has a line or two of products he sells and supports. He cannot support every WAP on the market or every matrix. If you don’t like his set up keep shopping. Or just ask for certain % or something off the total invoice and negotiate the full price vs swapping your own selected gear in and out. Offer to pay cash for a lower price etc whats his labor? Is he running wire because wire not his time are free. If you have an old house with stone walls running wire is awful. Small attic? No drop ceilings etc. if any of that work needs to be done that explains labor costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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