Josh One

[Control4Savant]

 

[Ilushka85]

Seems like everything josh already did... Not sure why this box is needed especially when it has no audio out like the core.

[Ilushka85]

Just read... its a lower cost offering to start competing in home automation.

[Topfox]

Haven’t read yet, but does it drop the license requirement?

At least for me that is a major blocker the ongoing cost or super large amount for unlimited ongoing. I’d prefer to move to Josh I believe, but not at the expense in comparison to Echo. 

[RAV]

1 minute ago, Topfox said:

Haven’t read yet, but does it drop the license requirement?

At least for me that is a major blocker the ongoing cost or super large amount for unlimited ongoing. I’d prefer to move to Josh I believe, but not at the expense in comparison to Echo. 

2 Levels of licensing.
Without Voice, and With Voice through the App and Remote.
(It's less, but I don't have all the details to post how much)

[cnicholson]

What is the "AI" part, as it relates to home automation?

[WhyPhy]

1 hour ago, cnicholson said:

What is the "AI" part, as it relates to home automation?

Knowing how to execute the proper commands without requiring a lot of programming by the integrator, presumably. 

[therockhr]

if i was starting a new home automation system/company this is probably the architecture i would use. only create controllers, remotes and touchscreens that communicate TCP/IP. Rely on 3rd party systems for all the lighting, climate, video, audio, IO, etc.

We will see what happens. I wouldnt think the existing HA companies are too happy about them entering this space after they built integrations with them when it seemed they were audio only.

[Control4Savant]

2 hours ago, therockhr said:

if i was starting a new home automation system/company this is probably the architecture i would use. only create controllers, remotes and touchscreens that communicate TCP/IP. Rely on 3rd party systems for all the lighting, climate, video, audio, IO, etc.

We will see what happens. I wouldnt think the existing HA companies are too happy about them entering this space after they built integrations with them when it seemed they were audio only.

I agree with this first part 100%

C4 systems are really the one that will suffer here. Full boat Crestron systems are too custom and Savant never had Josh integration, now going fully into Siri integration…

https://www.cepro.com/control/savant-announces-integrations-with-siri-apple-smart-home-platform/

[eggzlot]

1 hour ago, Control4Savant said:

I agree with this first part 100%

C4 systems are really the one that will suffer here. Full boat Crestron systems are too custom and Savant never had Josh integration, now going fully into Siri integration…

https://www.cepro.com/control/savant-announces-integrations-with-siri-apple-smart-home-platform/

so though I have iPhones and iPads, I dont have much "Homekit" stuff and just have a few Alexa's laying around.  that said what the article states as examples are all things that can be done with C4/Alexa or C4/homebridge or C4/Google Voice Services already available?  I am personally not a fan of the 3rd item because if someone has your car, they can just pull into your house and turn off things and enter?  Seems a security fail point. From the article:

As an example, Savant poses this: Imagine asking Siri on an Apple Watch to activate a Savant Scene that plays your Apple Music playlist, all while light colors dynamically react to the beat and rhythm of the music.

Or ask Siri on an Apple HomePod to dim the living room lights, turn on the Apple TV and launch Disney+. In addition to these Apple devices, the Savant Pro Remote, which already integrates with Siri, is another voice input in the home that can leverage Savant AI technology for easy control.

Savant notes this even extends into the vehicle where Savant AI technology via Apple CarPlay can enhance personal safety and security as you approach the home (very similar to Alarm.com’s Android Auto integrations).

[cnicholson]

12 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

what the article states as examples are all things that can be done with C4/Alexa or C4/homebridge or C4/Google Voice Services already available? 

It would be nice if the Siri/Homebridge stuff were officially supported, but it is still great that 3rd party solutions are available.

Without official Apple cooperation, however, any Siri integration is going to hit a big wall: music.   Homekit is happy to control 3rd party devices, but Music is *native*/exclusive to Siri.   Good luck using Siri to play a specific song via voice commands on your Control4 system (other than by controlling an AppleTV with Halo--- which is huge, but depends on Apple TV being on and set to active session).

It seems like Savant is offering a more Josh-like experience of single-interface control of media AND home automation controls.   Control4 falls short here, currently, IMHO.

[ChzBurger]

2 hours ago, Control4Savant said:

now going fully into Siri integration

Too much marketing smoke in the CEPro article. "Savant’s AI technology can be triggered through Siri Shortcuts allowing for additional hands-free automations" is not a full integration. C4 can do that with 3rd party drivers as can lots of other DIY systems. Full integration would be passing the voice to Savant for Savant to do its thing. "Or ask Siri on an Apple HomePod to dim the living room lights, turn on the Apple TV and launch Disney+." requires zero Savant or other control system to work.

[eggzlot]

29 minutes ago, cnicholson said:

It would be nice if the Siri/Homebridge stuff were officially supported, but it is still great that 3rd party solutions are available.

Without official Apple cooperation, however, any Siri integration is going to hit a big wall: music.   Homekit is happy to control 3rd party devices, but Music is *native*/exclusive to Siri.   Good luck using Siri to play a specific song via voice commands on your Control4 system (other than by controlling an AppleTV with Halo--- which is huge, but depends on Apple TV being on and set to active session).

It seems like Savant is offering a more Josh-like experience of single-interface control of media AND home automation controls.   Control4 falls short here, currently, IMHO.

I guess it all comes down to 2 things:

1) Voice > I still dont get the appeal, I have enough sensors/timers/programming in my house, very rarely do I need to adjust lights, if I do, a cell phone/c4 touchscreen isnt far away.  There is 1 scenario where sometimes I like to adjust lights using voice control, so I solved that with a $39 Alexa, though I could also likely program a button on the SR260 to do it for me too (just thought of that now)

2) Apple Music > I dont pay for that service

So to me, I have a single interface for control of media and home automation.  My media is Pandora, SiriusXM and Audacy along with distributed video and its all controlled within the same interface.  I guess I cannot tell my home to play XYZ, I just press a button to do it.  But is paying $100's a year in licensing fees + upfront hardware costs to Josh worth telling my Pandora what to play vs pushing a button?  And if I wanted to mess around enough, maybe I could create media scenes around playlists and tell my $39 alexa to play something and it plays out of the EA Controller.  I know Josh is a premium for security/not selling your info, etc I am not saying there isnt some value if you are starting from scratch it is at least a bit more in the C4/Savant field now.

Of course I could be in the minority so YMMV

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by eggzlot

[therockhr]

1 hour ago, eggzlot said:

I guess it all comes down to 2 things:

1) Voice > I still dont get the appeal, I have enough sensors/timers/programming in my house, very rarely do I need to adjust lights, if I do, a cell phone/c4 touchscreen isnt far away.  There is 1 scenario where sometimes I like to adjust lights using voice control, so I solved that with a $39 Alexa, though I could also likely program a button on the SR260 to do it for me too (just thought of that now)

2) Apple Music > I dont pay for that service

So to me, I have a single interface for control of media and home automation.  My media is Pandora, SiriusXM and Audacy along with distributed video and its all controlled within the same interface.  I guess I cannot tell my home to play XYZ, I just press a button to do it.  But is paying $100's a year in licensing fees + upfront hardware costs to Josh worth telling my Pandora what to play vs pushing a button?  And if I wanted to mess around enough, maybe I could create media scenes around playlists and tell my $39 alexa to play something and it plays out of the EA Controller.  I know Josh is a premium for security/not selling your info, etc I am not saying there isnt some value if you are starting from scratch it is at least a bit more in the C4/Savant field now.

Of course I could be in the minority so YMMV

 

I dont think Josh is worth it either. I said in another thread that something has always seemed off about them. That said, their concept of not having their own RF network, lighting, IO, music, etc. to support and relying on 3rd parties makes the most sense for a new home automation company. 

[RAV]

That's why they made the One.
Everyone just sees them as Voice.

They are focusing on being the butler for Lutron, Sonos, Nest, Roku, Xfinity etc.
Bringing them together in one app and allowing inter-system commands.

[ChzBurger]

46 minutes ago, RAV said:

They are focusing on being the butler for Lutron, Sonos, Nest, Roku, Xfinity etc.
Bringing them together in one app and allowing inter-system commands.

You mean just like every other control and automation system? Competition is great!

[Control4Savant]

7 hours ago, ChzBurger said:

Too much marketing smoke in the CEPro article. "Savant’s AI technology can be triggered through Siri Shortcuts allowing for additional hands-free automations" is not a full integration. C4 can do that with 3rd party drivers as can lots of other DIY systems. Full integration would be passing the voice to Savant for Savant to do its thing. "Or ask Siri on an Apple HomePod to dim the living room lights, turn on the Apple TV and launch Disney+." requires zero Savant or other control system to work.

Lol what? Full integration would be passing it on to do its own thing? So anything thats not Control4 branded isnt full integration? What are you even talking about? You can use Siri to natively trigger Savant. You can use Airtags and wearable tech to natively trigger Savant. Something that is specifically talked about and asked about here for C4 systems. Savant has quietly talked about this to us for years. This is just more putting your fingers in your ears repeating  “all systems are the same, all systems are the same, all systems are the same…”  lol. 

[eggzlot]

7 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

Lol what? Full integration would be passing it on to do its own thing? So anything thats not Control4 branded isnt full integration? What are you even talking about? You can use Siri to natively trigger Savant. You can use Airtags and wearable tech to natively trigger Savant. Something that is specifically talked about and asked about here for C4 systems. Savant has quietly talked about this to us for years. This is just more putting your fingers in your ears repeating  “all systems are the same, all systems are the same, all systems are the same…”  lol. 

I thought AirTags were for keys and luggage?  Not being combative, but how are AirTags useful for geofencing in regards to home automation?  If you say a car ok, but again I wouldn’t do that for security/safety reasons.  So to each his own I suppose.

I think the wearable tech is like if you walk into a room put the lights on  - but what if your baby is sleeping in that room, or a grown adult (perhaps me) is sleeping on the couch and my wife walks thru the living room en route to the kitchen - her Apple Watch would turn on the living room lights?

This isnt a knock on Savant/Apple, its a I don’t get how your system will be smart enough to use wearable tech to do what you want it to do every time without fail.  Again I could be missing something in my thick head, I wouldnt put it past me.  

I like C4, I realize it has a few weaknesses, and their CEDIA announcements arent party worthy, but AirTag integration?  I wouldn’t be jumping if C4 announced that either.

[Control4Savant]

7 hours ago, eggzlot said:

I guess it all comes down to 2 things:

1) Voice > I still dont get the appeal, I have enough sensors/timers/programming in my house, very rarely do I need to adjust lights, if I do, a cell phone/c4 touchscreen isnt far away.  There is 1 scenario where sometimes I like to adjust lights using voice control, so I solved that with a $39 Alexa, though I could also likely program a button on the SR260 to do it for me too (just thought of that now)

2) Apple Music > I dont pay for that service

So to me, I have a single interface for control of media and home automation.  My media is Pandora, SiriusXM and Audacy along with distributed video and its all controlled within the same interface.  I guess I cannot tell my home to play XYZ, I just press a button to do it.  But is paying $100's a year in licensing fees + upfront hardware costs to Josh worth telling my Pandora what to play vs pushing a button?  And if I wanted to mess around enough, maybe I could create media scenes around playlists and tell my $39 alexa to play something and it plays out of the EA Controller.  I know Josh is a premium for security/not selling your info, etc I am not saying there isnt some value if you are starting from scratch it is at least a bit more in the C4/Savant field now.

Of course I could be in the minority so YMMV

 

Yes. I find these things extremely important as options because of the cause and “supremeness” of pro systems but VC a minority request in my option. The native wearable and tag geofencing integration could be more useful by large margins. I also would guess people may speak more ofter  into something they wear over a table set device. 

[Control4Savant]

17 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

I thought AirTags were for keys and luggage?  Not being combative, but how are AirTags useful for geofencing in regards to home automation?  If you say a car ok, but again I wouldn’t do that for security/safety reasons.  So to each his own I suppose.

I think the wearable tech is like if you walk into a room put the lights on  - but what if your baby is sleeping in that room, or a grown adult (perhaps me) is sleeping on the couch and my wife walks thru the living room en route to the kitchen - her Apple Watch would turn on the living room lights?

This isnt a knock on Savant/Apple, its a I don’t get how your system will be smart enough to use wearable tech to do what you want it to do every time without fail.  Again I could be missing something in my thick head, I wouldnt put it past me.  

I like C4, I realize it has a few weaknesses, and their CEDIA announcements arent party worthy, but AirTag integration?  I wouldn’t be jumping if C4 announced that either.

My keys have airtags

My dogs collars have airtags

My kids have airtags in school bags and wearables for basic communication.. 

all of these things can trigger different lighting and home response for a verity of reasons. 

…to be clear this doesnt make or break a system. This wouldnt make Elan all of the sudden better than C4. If we’re truly comparing the best systems nit picking theses specifics at this point in technology I think is warranted. 

Let’s also not  pretend this forum wouldnt be going nuts if Control4 realeased native support for Apple/Siri like this… 

[ChzBurger]

38 minutes ago, Control4Savant said:

Lol what? Full integration would be passing it on to do its own thing? So anything thats not Control4 branded isnt full integration? What are you even talking about? You can use Siri to natively trigger Savant. You can use Airtags and wearable tech to natively trigger Savant. Something that is specifically talked about and asked about here for C4 systems. Savant has quietly talked about this to us for years. This is just more putting your fingers in your ears repeating  “all systems are the same, all systems are the same, all systems are the same…”  lol. 

Again, this article is full of marketing speak. What does "According to Savant, the company’s AI engine will be using Siri to interpret natural language" mean? Is Siri passing stuff it doesn't know about to Savant? That would be a full integration and noteworthy. I'm skeptical as further down the article says "Savant’s AI technology can be triggered through Siri Shortcuts". So Shortcuts can trigger something on Savant. This kind of stuff has been around for years with other control systems that interface to Apple Home via Homebridge. Using Siri Shortcuts to trigger a Savant scene is different than telling Siri to do something that only Savant knows how to do. If you tell Siri "to get the party started" how will Siri know to pass that input to Savant? Or will it just be a Siri Shortcut that triggers Savant to set the scene? As far as the AirTags stuff goes, they've worked like NFC tags for years. Tapping your phone to an AIrTag or NFC tag can trigger a Siri Shortcut. iOS 17 will have some more new AirTag functionality, not sure if that extends to Home Automations.

And all the "home automation" systems share the idea of event processing. Something happens, the controller notices that event, the controller makes something else happen. Various systems have different focuses. Some shine in the control area, some in the automation area, some in the number of integrations, some in user support. All competitive systems have strengths and weaknesses. None are perfect. Control4 and Savant do especially well with physical controls (like remotes and tablets), AV integrations, and user support. If one is focusing on non-AV automation in a non-crazy complex home one can build a pretty robust system for less than $200 (controller, not controlled devices).

[GregCAMS]

11 hours ago, Control4Savant said:

I agree with this first part 100%

C4 systems are really the one that will suffer here. Full boat Crestron systems are too custom and Savant never had Josh integration, now going fully into Siri integration…

https://www.cepro.com/control/savant-announces-integrations-with-siri-apple-smart-home-platform/

saw this in the demo room today at CEDIA and co-sign - was very nice integration and fully native now.  There is definitely a market for customers on this one and showed based upon people actually purchasing and taking home units today on the the show floor.

[eggzlot]

10 hours ago, Control4Savant said:

My keys have airtags

My dogs collars have airtags

My kids have airtags in school bags and wearables for basic communication.. 

all of these things can trigger different lighting and home response for a verity of reasons. 

…to be clear this doesnt make or break a system. This wouldnt make Elan all of the sudden better than C4. If we’re truly comparing the best systems nit picking theses specifics at this point in technology I think is warranted. 

Let’s also not  pretend this forum wouldnt be going nuts if Control4 realeased native support for Apple/Siri like this… 

So what is the programming?  When kids AirTag is noticed unlock the door?  If the kids are old enough to get off the bus themselves and come into an empty home without an adult can’t they put a code into a door lock?

I have a dog - No AirTag in her.  How would I use geofencing for my dog and program stuff?  I guess if you don’t have a fence and just let the dog roam around town and when the dog is back on the property blink lights?  Is this something big in the luxury market?

i think localized in house geofencing could be interesting.  Like with Josh you can turn on TV and it should know your room - ok.  There is something different there.  But like I said there is a lot of logic needed here to make this super elegant so someone walking thru a room doesn’t auto trigger lights or media when not wanted.

Exterior geofencing - I don’t see it I guess.  

[eggzlot]

10 hours ago, Control4Savant said:

Yes. I find these things extremely important as options because of the cause and “supremeness” of pro systems but VC a minority request in my option. The native wearable and tag geofencing integration could be more useful by large margins. I also would guess people may speak more ofter  into something they wear over a table set device. 

You can speak into a wearable, an always listening remote, an always listening tablet, a speaker on the shelf etc

If you sell both systems and 100% Apple Music is required by a client and that’s the 1 deal breaker sure I could see saying ok here’s Savant.  
 

just like if someone wants to drive 0-60 in 3 seconds they wouldn’t get a Ford Explorer, there are other options 

[cnicholson]

On 9/9/2023 at 5:02 AM, eggzlot said:

i think localized in house geofencing could be interesting.

Part of this week's Apple announcements are rumored to include new "U2" wideband chips.   I have assumed for a while that Apple would turn your Apple Watch into a precise indoor tracker, using HomePods and Apple TVs (etc.) as triangulation beacons to track what room you're in (and not just that you're home).   Maybe that is finally coming.   With existing 3rd party Homebridge drivers, that stuff could be easily tracked via C4 dummy devices.