South Africa C4 user Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I must say… there has been some phenomenal recommendations in this topic. I installed C4 in my main residence 11 years ago and have grown the system significantly since then snow control just about anything. I have never looked back. I then installed C4 in my beach house (controlling pretty much everything from day 1). What I must add is that (as many have said), having the right dealer is of paramount importance. I had numerous options of local dealers for my beach house and ultimately used the same dealer as I use for main residence (despite the 600 km - 1 hour flight - from the dealers offices which are near my main residence). Do C4 right and use a good dealer and you won’t regret going with C4 cnicholson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Africa C4 user Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 hours ago, therockhr said: Control4 only really works for 2 types of customers. I have posted this before but will again: 1 - the people with more money than time: they hired an integrator because they wanted to have some cool technology in their home and be able to control it all from 1 place. if control4 is being used in their home it probably wasnt their choice, it was the integrators. the technology in the background is irrelevant. its the integrator that matters. if the integrator thinks there is another product than could do what they want better or easier then they would have it. the customer doesnt care if the solution is open or closed (C4). they just want it to work. 2 - people with some money and some time - this is the group who if there was a DIY (open) solution out there that could do all they want they would probably use it instead of C4. The fact is though if you want to have a hard button remote that can control all of your audio and video together easily there is just not anything on the DIY side that comes close (and on the custom side there isnt anything with the user base and price point of C4). And even if there was a product, the price of a CORE LITE and SR-260 is not that much different than what Logitech's last solution was going for. Yes there is the cost of an integrator but there are varying levels of what involvement you need from them if you have the time and knowledge. C4 has a great product at a great price for these types of users. If you don't fit into 1 of these 2 categories you will likely not enjoy your experience with C4. If you do fit then there is a good chance you will really like it. I agree that C4 works well for these 2 groups of people. But it also works very well for other groups. I love C4 and don’t fit in either category… Dueport, SpencerT and RyanE 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnicholson Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 22 hours ago, BDavisNJ said: My experience with C4 branded centralized lighting (C4-DIN-8DIM-E, C4-DIN-8REL-E, C4-DIN-8TV-E) and the KCB backlit keypads has been remarkably positive. One of my regrets is going with Lutron panelized/centralized lighting. It "works" awesome, but I have found that the only way to get refined simultaneous ramps up/down in scenes with lots of loads is to do the programming on the Lutron side which is a huge pain since, as end user, I can't fiddle with the Lutron programming-- and the need to bulk upload the whole project to make even small changes in annoying and inefficient. I should have stuck with C4. BDavisNJ, RyanE and South Africa C4 user 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnicholson Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 23 hours ago, bballjn64 said: However it requires constant tinkering and programming to truly make it your own and user friendly. The programming side of it is the biggest challenge, and you can do some modification as a home user, but the bulk of the programming is locked away behind your dealer to keep the user from breaking it. Agree with you comments, but would add that the ability of end user to directly program / tweak the system WITHOUT getting too deep into the weeds of the tech stack is, for techie tinkerers, a huge huge plus. I want a professional solution that "just works" for the basics, but I can't image NOT being able to constantly add/improve stuff myself. I understand that most customers don't care about this level of control / don't find it fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I disagree that it takes constant tinkering. In the last month I have made 1 change to my house... BXTR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bballjn64 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 15 minutes ago, msgreenf said: I disagree that it takes constant tinkering. In the last month I have made 1 change to my house... That's because you didn't install your system 1 month ago, and you've been both using your system for a long time (ie, the bugs and customization have already been ironed out and implemented at this point). This comment and thread was geared toward a new install and a new C4 user. I have done massive amounts of tinkering to get my system to where it is today, much and most of which will not be considered or planned up front until you start using it and and finding the gaps, pitfalls, or "I wish I could do this." scenarios. My current configuration and programming is far beyond where it started when my dealer initially installed, but as with you, I haven't made 1 change to my house either in the last month. South Africa C4 user and Neo1738 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyknight Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 20 minutes ago, msgreenf said: I disagree that it takes constant tinkering. In the last month I have made 1 change to my house... Indeed. Constant tinkering is a CHOICE. Nothing wrong with wanting to tweak things to a high degree, and yes that will take effort or money (to have someone to do it for you). Also I strongly disagree that 'the bulk of the programming is locked away'. Adding/removing devices: yes, so is changing conections, but that is NOT the 'bulk' of programming on a system. The 'bulk' ARE those personal tweaks and the vast majority of that is 'pure' programming which is not locked but fully available in ComposerHE. BY96, cnicholson and RyanE 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChzBurger Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Configuring a well-functioning C4 system takes no more and no less skill than configuring a well-functioning Hubitat, Home Assistant, etc. system. It's a skill that's benefitted by experience and systematic thinking. There's no magic to any of these systems. The fact that the company locks up the ability to add devices for the few who want to do it is silly. It should be viewed as silly from the C4 corporate perspective. The crazy people are the ones who push systems to limits and make the product managers/developers think past existing boundaries. Speaking of tinkering, anyone been able to get the nice new Matter-based Third Reality Night Light working in their C4 system? therockhr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanE Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 10 minutes ago, ChzBurger said: The fact that the company locks up the ability to add devices for the few who want to do it is silly. Your opinion. Control4's adherence to the dealer installation model is certainly a topic for conjecture and discussion, but, sadly for you, it's not up for a vote. RyanE BXTR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 No need to prairie dog on this topic if you have a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChzBurger Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 3 minutes ago, RyanE said: Your opinion. Control4's adherence to the dealer installation model is certainly a topic for conjecture and discussion, but, sadly for you, it's not up for a vote. RyanE Every $ spent is a vote. I have a Ring doorbell and don't want to keep on adding more $ to my RMR spend. Should I get a Chime with C4 lock in? Or should I get a high-end Ubiquiti or low-end Reolink? therockhr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, bballjn64 said: That's because you didn't install your system 1 month ago, and you've been both using your system for a long time (ie, the bugs and customization have already been ironed out and implemented at this point). This comment and thread was geared toward a new install and a new C4 user. I have done massive amounts of tinkering to get my system to where it is today, much and most of which will not be considered or planned up front until you start using it and and finding the gaps, pitfalls, or "I wish I could do this." scenarios. My current configuration and programming is far beyond where it started when my dealer initially installed, but as with you, I haven't made 1 change to my house either in the last month. Been in house 15 months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, ChzBurger said: Every $ spent is a vote. I have a Ring doorbell and don't want to keep on adding more $ to my RMR spend. Should I get a Chime with C4 lock in? Or should I get a high-end Ubiquiti or low-end Reolink? do you want integration or do you want a stand alone video/intercom system? I mean this is far flung - but now that C4 is going to have a paid support line, maybe they will open up more settings for end users - end users mess things up, they call up C4, they mess up more, pay for the bigger support packages, more money for C4 I dunno, its a pipe dream but one of the reasons in the past people said they wouldn't open it up more was lack of support and what if your system crashed due to your doing and its 8pm on a Friday. well now, you can call C4 support. Dont have C4 support, pay for it, then call up.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, msgreenf said: Been in house 15 months But you have been a control4 user for years. I think his point is valid that it does take some time for someone to get the system configured how they want it based on how they live in their home with the technology. Im sure the good integrators have it down to a science but i would think you would typically come back in about 6-8 months after a system has went in and the customer has lived with the system to do some final scenes and programming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bballjn64 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I'm not sure why people get so upset at opinions and experiences posted in this thread. The original post was "what are realistic expectations for Control4?" This is a completely open ended question that's depending on a wide variety of variables can be very different from user to user. If you're one of the apparently satisfied customers of some of the dealers who comment, then expectations are high. If you're someone else who's had poor experiences, or wants more out of a "smart home" than the ability to turn a lamp on and off to impress a dinner party, then you're expectations might be higher. Personally a home automation system should simplify you're interface with your home and the things you do everyday. If you're dealer has the ability to read your mind or better predict than you the the things you might find annoying after a few weeks or months of using the system, great! For everyone else, just like with any other smart home platform, it takes time to sort out how you actually use it, and also that the more connected devices you add, the more control and automations you can implement. This forum is filled with both dealers, and end users, who have wildly different experiences based on their side of the customer/dealer equation. Not sure why people feel the need to dismiss, or prove wrong an opinion or experience. Let the OP read comments and make up their mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Africa C4 user Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 43 minutes ago, bballjn64 said: I'm not sure why people get so upset at opinions and experiences posted in this thread. The original post was "what are realistic expectations for Control4?" This is a completely open ended question that's depending on a wide variety of variables can be very different from user to user. If you're one of the apparently satisfied customers of some of the dealers who comment, then expectations are high. If you're someone else who's had poor experiences, or wants more out of a "smart home" than the ability to turn a lamp on and off to impress a dinner party, then you're expectations might be higher. Personally a home automation system should simplify you're interface with your home and the things you do everyday. If you're dealer has the ability to read your mind or better predict than you the the things you might find annoying after a few weeks or months of using the system, great! For everyone else, just like with any other smart home platform, it takes time to sort out how you actually use it, and also that the more connected devices you add, the more control and automations you can implement. This forum is filled with both dealers, and end users, who have wildly different experiences based on their side of the customer/dealer equation. Not sure why people feel the need to dismiss, or prove wrong an opinion or experience. Let the OP read comments and make up their mind. This is a good summary. In essence, if you work well with your dealer and you are both competent, you should end up with a great system… if not… you are in serious trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windthrow Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 Enjoying all the posts. My goal right now is just to become better informed in a really general sense so that I can ask the right questions and be able to understand why someone might have been unhappy and whether their experience tells me anything useful about what I might expect for my experience. Things I have learned so far: 1. Push the envelope of what your dealer has experience with and you can expect thing to go less smoothly. This primarily means using devices they have integrated before. 2. Think through as many use cases as possible early as to get the initial install properly defined and then be ready to go through some updating once you start living with your system. 3. That people might be unhappy with their Control4 installation doesn't automatically mean there is a problem with Control4 itself. 4. Alternatives to Control4 with the same level of functionality at a comparable price point are very limited. cnicholson, South Africa C4 user and msgreenf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom4809 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 I've had control 4 for 13+ years. The system worked great for the first 5-6years. We have an execellent dealer, but i feel the life of the equipment isn't as long as it should be. I have broken remotes that I'm not sure i can replace. Then new OS will not work on my equipment. I spoke to a Savant dealer, and they quit selling Control4 due to constant changes that make most of the system obsolete. I feel like it is an annuity for the dealer and am tired of feeling like I'm getting nickle and dimed to death. Maybe run CAT 6 everywhere and try to get a strong wifi network. You might save money over the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 45 minutes ago, Tom4809 said: I've had control 4 for 13+ years. The system worked great for the first 5-6years. We have an execellent dealer, but i feel the life of the equipment isn't as long as it should be. I have broken remotes that I'm not sure i can replace. Then new OS will not work on my equipment. I spoke to a Savant dealer, and they quit selling Control4 due to constant changes that make most of the system obsolete. I feel like it is an annuity for the dealer and am tired of feeling like I'm getting nickle and dimed to death. Maybe run CAT 6 everywhere and try to get a strong wifi network. You might save money over the long term. The current controllers had an 10+ year run with a few updates a year... idk what your expectations are but old hardware can only be supported so long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom4809 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 6 minutes ago, msgreenf said: The current controllers had an 10+ year run with a few updates a year... idk what your expectations are but old hardware can only be supported so long I don't diagree that stuff breaks. Do you still support the old equipment, or do i have to spend $20,000+- to update my system. That is my problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggzlot Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 25 minutes ago, Tom4809 said: I don't diagree that stuff breaks. Do you still support the old equipment, or do i have to spend $20,000+- to update my system. That is my problem! I’ve had c4 for 11 years. Only upgraded controllers and touchscreens for the new UI which was a personal choice and again I was 8-9 years in when I made that upgrade so can’t complain about support and longevity. knock on wood still have original Amps, matrix, sr250 remotes, tons of lighting kit, etc. depending on your system 20k may be extreme or if it’s all 1.7 embernet stuff then yeah you got your use out of it! Don’t service a 15 year old car with 200k miles or get a new car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDavisNJ Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 @Windthrow One other item that I would add: make certain that your network is 100% rock solid. I strongly suggest professional grade APs (I am using Araknis WiFi6), managed switches, and run Cat6 / fiber before the walls are finished. Also, reserve more than sufficient space in your equipment room for 44ru racks. This will make set-up and review much cleaner. The managed switches permit efficient network troubleshooting. I had one defective cable that was causing a network loop (LAN latency 300ms). Once this $3 cable was replaced, latency tracked at 35ms. Without the managed switches, identifying this issue would have taken a long time and much frustration. The higher end APs permit multiple VLANs (one for IoT, one for principal / family, one for guests / staff). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom4809 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 18 minutes ago, eggzlot said: I’ve had c4 for 11 years. Only upgraded controllers and touchscreens for the new UI which was a personal choice and again I was 8-9 years in when I made that upgrade so can’t complain about support and longevity. knock on wood still have original Amps, matrix, sr250 remotes, tons of lighting kit, etc. depending on your system 20k may be extreme or if it’s all 1.7 embernet stuff then yeah you got your use out of it! Don’t service a 15 year old car with 200k miles or get a new car? Unfortunately, I have had to replace alot of my equipment. If i'm able to get it fixed fairly reasonable I'm ok. Maybe the 20,000 was high, but more things need to be replace. Not all control 4 but just leaves a sour taste. I've had 2 amps break, soon after the warranty expired. It's good equipment, i just it should be able to be maintained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therockhr Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 56 minutes ago, Tom4809 said: I don't diagree that stuff breaks. Do you still support the old equipment, or do i have to spend $20,000+- to update my system. That is my problem! The cost and life of Control4 is one of their biggest advantages. The controllers are very reasonably priced for what you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, Tom4809 said: I don't diagree that stuff breaks. Do you still support the old equipment, or do i have to spend $20,000+- to update my system. That is my problem! Yea. Old stuff is still supported... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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