turls

I thought I'd try to contribute to the forum a bit instead of just consuming all of the great information here!
I am in the process of constructing my own home and planning for C4 lighting and since I have my Essential Dimmers ready to go (thanks Coolabode! @AK1) I thought I'd perform a little experiment.  
I set out to find a budget friendly and energy efficient solution for recessed lighting.  I fired up my computer and began looking up ultra thin canless LEDs and wholly paralysis by analysis there are thousands of brands, sku's, styles, colors, etc.  and beyond that how would I truly know if my selection was compatible with C4.  I ordered products from some of the most reviewed and popular brands on the web that met the ~$10 per light budget criteria (I did violate that threshold with the lithonia light but I wanted a comparison to a more expensive "name" brand to get a quality benchmark.
Products purchased:
Ensenior 6" Ultra Thin LED https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08QSGRR1Q/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A61CMNCK0JTGW&psc=1
Sunco Lighting 6" Ultra Thin LED https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089227DFJ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details
Lightdot 6" Thin LED https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09J7VWG1V?ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details&th=1
Sunco Lighting 6" 3000k https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D2LFVKP?ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details&th=1
Torchstar Essentials 6" 2700k https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GZ7NBTC?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details
Lithonia WF6 3000k https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ND1L263?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details
 
I won't bore you with the testing procedures but each light was first and foremost tested for dimming compatibility with the Essential C4-V-FPD120 Dimmer and I am glad to say all products were compatible to varying degrees.  They all dimmed to a sufficiently low level using manual dimming while holding down/up on the switch.  Summary results of each product are as follows (evidence documented with the help of my daughter which considered this a science experiment - pretty cool):
Ensenior - mix of quality of construction, smooth responsive dimming, color temperature selectability make this the winner.
Torchstar - surprising build quality for a cheaper brand, quality dimming as well, topped Lithonia for no other reason than cost (11.25 per unit versus 17+)
Lithonia - similar build quality as Ensenior but not quite as responsive with the switch on command.
Sunco - I'll cover both products here.  These aren't to the same quality level as the three brands above, plastic junction boxes, no ground wire, etc.  They did however function but not as smoothly or as responsive as the brands above.
Lightdot - Similar to Sunco but often required pressing up on the Essential switch multiple times to get the light to turn on.  This did however, include a metal junction box and color selectability but at the end of the day the unpredictible operation of the light landed this one in last place.  It did meet the minimum qualifications of turning on, dimming and turning off.
 
Hopefully this information helps others in a similar compatibility search!  
 
 
 

Overview
 
The Athom Human Presence Sensor is a multifaceted device designed to enhance smart home automation systems by detecting human presence with high precision. It incorporates mmWave and PIR (Passive Infrared) technologies for detecting human presence, micro-motions, and overall human motion within a specified area. Furthermore the device incorporates a luminance sensor for lux level feedback. Combined this allows for a more nuanced and responsive approach to lighting automation, adjusting lighting conditions not just based on motion, but on the actual presence of individuals in a space and based on current lighting conditions.
Driver Features
IP Control Auto install / Binding of official Control4 Motion Sensor driver for following sensors PIR mmWave Occupancy Light/Lux Level feedback Events for Lux below minimum specified value Lux above maximum specified value mmWave Sensor Sense Motion mmWave Sensor Stops Sense Motion Occupancy Sensor Sense Motion Occupancy Sensor Stops Sense Motion PIR Sensor Sense Motion PIR Sensor Stops Sense Motion Automated lighting through driver Selection of 1 or more lights through driver Ability to set brightness and fade times Ability to select which sensors to utilise for automated lighting If any of the monitored sensor is detecting it will turn on lights If all of the monitored sensors are not detecting it will turn the lights off after a designed period of time. Ability to automate lighting based on lux level Ability to enable / disable through programming FAQ
Why is this product so exciting?
Traditionally you would utilise a PIR based motion sensor. This is not effective when monitoring spaces with stationary individuals, such as those seated for extended periods. With the athom Human Presence Sensor you combine multiple sensors for occupancy. The PIR sensor will trigger fast and the mmWave sensor will determine presence even when stationary. Combined this provides an speedy, yet accurate method of determining if a room is occupied. Add to this a lux level sensor and we have everything we need for automating lighting and shades in a single device.
What hardware will this work on?
This driver is designed for the Athom Human Presence Sensor (model PS01) with ESPHome firmware.
It is a USB-C powered Wi-Fi device which can be purchased from US, Germany, Sydney or China with US, UK, EU or A power adapters. Please make sure you order the model with the ESP Home firmware.
Are there any installation precautions?
athom recommends the following.
Choose a suitable installation location away from air conditioners, curtains, fans, plants, etc. to avoid interference. Avoid direct beam irradiation on the ground, walls or doors to minimize reflections and indirect detections. Configure appropriate detection distance, sensitivity and delay time to reduce interference from objects. Keep the sensor surface clean and free from dust and obstacles. Ensure the sensor has enough space around it for proper air circulation. Also note that mmWave radar will travel through walls. As such you will need to be aware of placement and also sensitivity settings.
What are the lux events and LUX_LEVEL variable used for?
You can set the minimum and maximum lux events in programming If the current lux level goes below the value set in 'Lux Minimum' it will fire the 'Lux below minimum specified value' If the current lux level goes above the value set in 'Lux Maximum' it will fire the 'Lux above maximum specified value' The LUX_LEVEL variable is exposed so you can program against the current lux level detected in that location. This is useful for programming shading, lighting and other automation tasks that require light level feedback. How does automated lighting work?
The driver has built in automated lighting functionality. This can be set up in the driver's programming without any custom programming. You can choose which sensors to utilise in the logic. If you choose more than one then the automated lighting will trigger if any one of the sensors is triggered. We recommend leaving it on the default of 'Occupancy and PIR' If you wish to take lux levels (eg light from windows) into account then set the 'Automated Lights Rules'. You can choose between the Lux Minimum and Lux Maximum. For both it will trigger if the levels are below the values You can choose which lights to trigger using the 'Lights Triggered' selection. Fade Time and Brightness will set the fade time for on and off and the brightness for on. Auto Off After (Seconds) is used to set the period the driver turns the lights off after all sensors selected in the 'Automated Lighting Sensors' are not detecting simultaneously. If any one of the sensors triggers during this period it will cancel. Do you offer any other cool drivers?
Control4 is a major part of our business. We develop new drivers all the time. You can see all of our drivers on our website (https://chowmain.software). Sign up to our newsletter to get notified when new drivers are released.
I want to try this driver out before buying it?
All Chowmain drivers for Control4 come with a 90 day trial.
Where can i find out more?
You can find out more about the driver from the following link.
Driver Product Page
 

Apr 1, 15:27 EDT
Identified - Numerous cases have been reported in the last few days of the loss of control of Roku devices through the Control4 system. There have not been any changes to the Roku driver recently and we currently leverage the published APIs by Roku, so we believe this is tied to a recent software update deployed by Roku. A Roku developer forum thread is also pointing to the same issue View the full article

Greenfield solutions is excited to release our latest innovation: project quick start. This is a whole new way for dealers to think about starting a project. It's an agent that makes building out device and room hierarchies much quicker than manually double clicking a hundred plus times in a project. In our benchmarking, this can provide significant time savings.
 
Check out the video to learn more
 
 
https://drivercentral.io/platforms/control4-drivers/utility/project-quick-start-agent/

After doing months of research, testing, and implementing my own DIY smart lighting system using Philips Hue and Apple's HomeKit, I decided to embark on my Control4 lighting journey this past September. This post is to summarize what I was aiming for, what I did, and the outcomes for the benefit of anyone that might want to do something similar. I'd also like to emphasize the limitations and issues with the current Control4 Free Philips Hue driver, those limitations being a significant impediment to reaching my goals with the system.
I'm new to the forum and Control4 and have read through much of the content available on implementing Philips Hue lighting in C4. Many of the issues I see people dealing with are related to the issues I've found with the C4 Hue driver, and could be fixed with a better implementation of the Hue API in C4. Although I'm not a C4 dealer, I am a fairly technical user with software and hardware design experience. My C4 system covers a home theatre, lighting, and security (Overhead garage door control, locks and doorbell camera). This post will be focused on specifically the Philips Hue lighting integration with C4, so on to that.
Requirements
Overall I wanted a lighting system with:
Automatic time of day brightness and warmth (color temperature) control, so that the lights are less bright in the morning and at night, and also warmer when less bright full color lighting in some rooms, e.g. bathrooms and bedrooms have dim red light by default when activated late at night so as not to disturb sleep, and some rooms have full color scenes for relaxing ambiance and dance party purposes Control via any app (C4, Hue, HomeKit, etc) and physical switches to replace my existing switches (i.e. no hue dimmer switches fixed to the wall next to my dumb switches with tape or some barrier preventing the power being cut to the bulbs) A great user experience consistent with normal light switches, as no one is interested in having to read a manual prior to using the lights in my home A way to turn off the power to the bulbs when necessary, from the physical light switch Consistent aesthetics for the switches around the house, especially with multi-gang switch banks Occupancy on, occupancy off, and vacancy mode in most rooms, with intuitive automatic switching between the different modes Compatible with my existing home as a retrofit As cost effective as possible while nailing the above key features I started building this system with HomeKit and Philips Hue and ended up with 1 Hue bridge, 45 hue bulbs, 3 Hue motion sensors, and 5 Hue dimmer switches.
The system worked reasonably well but I quickly ran into the limitations of HomeKit which prevented reaching my ultimate goal. Those limitations that C4 (at least on paper) addressed were:
No way to backup the programming, so if anything went wrong with the AppleTV HomeKit Hub I'd have to start from scratch again No physical switches available that satisfied my requirements for aesthetics and function No customization of circadian (HomeKit's "Adaptive Lighting") schedule Limited capability for implementing advanced programming and variables (to some extent addressed by HomeBridge) Limited product integration support (although this is completely addressed by setting up a HomeBridge server for HomeKit) Random glitches that are intolerable for mission critical applications like door locks and primary lighting Me being solely responsible and able to fix the system when broken Implementation
After looking at options for physical switches I decided on using Control4 essential switches which have the following advantages over other options out there:
Can be set as keypads to control the Hue lights while maintaining power to the bulbs, so that I can control the bulbs via control4 and other means (e.g. Hue app, HomeKit) Can be set up with consistent functionality for single, double, and triple tap on the bottom and top switches, along with other non-hue lighting circuits Can also control the load to the hue bulbs so I can turn off the power to them completely if I want or need to Can be tied into the control4 system seamlessly to control or be controlled by other control4 devices Are aesthetically pleasing especially compared to putting hue dimmer switches beside the load switches or covering the load switches in some way Are a good price for the functionality they give, about half the cost of the regular C4 switches. Mainly the difference (for the switches, not dimmers) is the essential switches don't have advanced control of the LED lights on the switch itself like the regular switches do For the circadian schedule I used a driver from Janus Technologies (Control4 Circadian Lighting (drivercentral.io)). I also installed ceiling motion sensors from Nyce which worked alongside my existing 3 Hue motion sensors. I recently learned about a Hue motion sensor driver from UnilogiQ (@Bogdy, Control4 drivers | UnilogIQ) and will update when I get that installed and configured.
Outcomes and Issues:
Initially the implementation was a disaster. The lights were unresponsive and unpredictable. When the switch was pressed to turn on the light, the light would usually turn on, but to a dim level for a brief moment and then to some other brightness. When the switch was pressed to turn off the light, the light would usually turn off, but sometimes it took a while, sometimes it would just go dim and not off, and sometimes it would go off but then come back on a few seconds or so later. When the switch was held to dim or brighten, it was laggy and would continue to change brightness for moments or even several seconds after the switch was released. One and two bulb groups were not too bad, but above that, and particularly with my 6 bulb group, it was very laggy and quite annoying. Not a good long term option. Overall the user experience sucked. It sucked to the point that my wife tried to convince me to ditch the C4 switches and go back to the old regular dumb switches. However, I knew my $30 Hue dimmer switch was doing a much better job so there was no excuse for the poor performance. There had to be a way to make it work.
After some troubleshooting I figured out the root cause was the way in which the free C4 hue driver implements the Hue API to communicate with the bridge. The driver was sending many individual requests when one or maybe a few requests would do it. In other words, there was no attempt by the driver to minimize the number of requests to the bridge, and with the size and scope of my installation that meant that C4 was flooding my bridge with requests and overflowing the buffer in many cases. That meant that sometimes requests were getting missed or were delayed in being executed, hence the intermittent and unpredictable results when pressing the buttons on the switches to turn on and off the lights. In addition to those problems, I found a bug in the C4 hue driver which caused the color temperature to lock at the default level when turned on, so that the circadian driver could not control the color temperature of the bulbs without first manually toggling the color temperature driver in Composer. 
With this root cause determined, I was abled to set up the required groups and scenes in the Hue app and implement custom programming on the C4 switch buttons to solve the problem. Turning on and off the lights was done with the  There is still room for improvement, and I'm missing the dimming functionality on the switches still, but the overall user experience is currently more or less on par with the similar C4 switches I'm using to control the load on the non-hue lighting circuits. In other words, everyone in my household is now satisfied with the user experience of the switches and feels it's an improvement over the regular dumb switches we had before. In addition, the way I implemented the programming solved the problem of the circadian driver being unable to control the color temperature, and it now works perfectly. And the circadian lighting schedule is awesome - I highly recommend the Janus driver (Control4 Circadian Lighting (drivercentral.io) when implemented in this way.
This post is already long enough so I won't get into the details of the programming here, but I'm happy to discuss further with anyone who is interested.
Next steps and Improvements:
Although the core functionality is there with the above, there are still issues that a significant update of C4's hue driver or another driver would solve. Those are:
dimming by holding the C4 switch buttons. This is done with a simple Hue API call and could be easily implemented in a driver or even custom Composer programming if there was a driver that enabled PUT requests to be sent from code in Composer. The amount of custom programming required to implement my solution is excessive. Each button event needs to be programmed separately. A good driver that implements the above and that links to the switches would be a great improvement. Turning the bulbs on. Currently this is implemented by activating Hue scenes using UnilogIQ's Hue Motion Sensor driver (@Bogdy, Control4 drivers | UnilogIQ), but a better way for just turning on the switch would be just to turn on the group using a simple API call ({"on":true}) so that the lights would turn on to the most recently used settings rather than go to a defined scene. This is especially important in a circadian application since the color temperature and brightness are constantly changing through the day. Overall, with the improvements above this would be a great way to implement Philips Hue and/or circadian lighting for retrofits and smaller homes with lower budgets that don't allow for the fully wired solutions.

We chosen not to have the app be available until we we are able to test compatibility and the experience. You can expect the app to become available once the review and testing process has been completed.  This is the same approach that was taken for supporting iPadOS apps on MacOS with Apple Silicon chips (M1, etc).

The only way i know of is via CEC.  Eg the driver and the hardware below
https://chowmain.software/drivers/control4-hdanywhere-ucontrol-zone-processor
https://hdanywhere.com/products/accessories/pages/zp5

Our NetPlay is another option that is often lower cost and can use existing wiring and simple networks (if that is a concern for some zones).  It is fully integrated in C4 (free drivers) and includes dynamic multiview, PIP, and even graphical overlays at ZERO additional cost (at every TV).
The video is h264 or h265 encoded, which is the same codecs used to encode the source video material.  Very high quality and reasonable bit rates that don't need specialized networks.  
There are a lot of upsides to NetPlay, but the only downsides are the end to end latency is higher (200ms to 700ms depending on the source, always a fixed and synced value) and our switching speed is 1 second or less.  Most competing AV over IP uses non temporal encoding which can have lower latency and faster switching speed (at the cost of much higher bit rates, more complex networking, and in some cases lower quality).  Our phone support can always help if you have questions about the tradeoffs.
NetPlay residential estimator:  https://video-storm.com/residential.php

Thrilled to announce we have agreed a partnership with myQ, part of the Chamberlain group to provide official drivers, starting with Control4.
Extract from press release:
Today, Intrinsic Dev, a leading software provider to the custom install industry, and global intelligent access leader, Chamberlain Group, announced a new partnership that will provide integration solutions for smart home platforms, beginning with Control4.
“This new partnership will provide another integration for homeowners and dealers looking to expand their smart home systems,” said Kiel Fitzgerald, Sr. Director & GM myQ Residential Partnerships at Chamberlain Group. “We look forward to working with Intrinsic Dev to further our myQ offering within the custom install industry.”
Read the full press release here - https://www.intrinsicdev.com/myq-press-release/
The Control4 driver is now ready for public beta, if you'd like the chance to be involved please email ceri@intrinsicdev.com for more info.

The bug in 3.4.1 Composer HE will impact all systems running OS 3.4.1 currently.  The team that works on Composer believes they have found the root cause and they should have a patch out soon.

Has a door with a gasket, others are similar.

Well outdoor TV’s typically have a compartment to store said extenders and also covers the inputs.
Without some sort of enclosure, extenders and even the TV inputs may not last too long outdoors.

First part of the TVs manual - "For Indoor Use Only"
Say a bug infests through the vents of the TV, makes a nest, catches fire. Totally realistic possibility.
Insurance company determines the cause of the fire, well, you installed an electronic device against manufacturers recommendations, so sorry for your losses.

And lets consider electrical shock, another possibility in the elements.
Indoor TV's power cables don't typically have an earth ground, while outdoors that I've done do use a 3 prong typically IEC cord.
It's not just about the longevity of the TV, or it's brightness.

But, hey, you saved a few dollars.

Sigh. Stop assuming Ch25 is 'best'. It's great with a good mesh coverage in very high traffic 2.4Ghz areas - but it's a weaker signal strenght, and if poor mesh is the issue, ch25 will just make it worse. Not advocating AGAINST using 25 - just saying to consider the situation and not assume it's the 'right' thing to do.
You can find a free app on your phone to check how busy channels are, and while zigbee must be done by a dealer, if your own wifi it the biggest interference by far, you may be able to move IT to another channel(s) instead - note that only 2.4 Ghz is of real importance here.
 
If a reboot fixes it, unfortunately that doesn't really eliminate or prove specific issues. Dealer can check if ZigBee is indeed off-line or not etc. Hard to troubleshoot without that added info I'm afraid, but a wifi channel change or interference scan is something you may be able to look into yourself. Chances are wifi is set to auto - which could explain it jumping to a different channel and it all of a sudden causing problems.

Despite being lower power, if your Zigbee devices are not spread out a lot, Channel 25 works pretty well.
I mean, it's what Control4 runs Zigbee devices at shows, where it's very difficult to even get Wifi throughput due to the saturation of 2.4GHz Wifi access points.
RyanE
 

25 is also not a great channel to be on. Yes it's likely less interference from other devices. But due to it being on the fringe of the spectrum the power is reduced to not interfere with the higher spectrum. 

? Do they?
Anyway, 4sight is tied to your account so if replacement is simply registered to the existing account, it'll stay active. And yes, if you for whatever reason get more 4sight 'years' they will just add up, not overwrite.
Often a life saver, especially on 'actively tuned' systems - systems get auto backed up if you have 4sight once a week.
 
Your dealer likely knows, but the biggest things are:
-Re register it properly
-3rd party paid driver will need to be re-registered (Blackwire and Drivercentral both have fairly easy ways for your dealer to do this) - THIS can be problematic when you have drivers that were installed by a dealer that is not your current one. Also, IF you have these drivers - you WILL need to have a dealer involved.
-ZigBee mesh, if running on that controller, may or may not reconnect properly - there's a chance that devices need to be reconnected. Note that not all dealers/installers seem to know this trick: you can set a mesh to allow joining under the zigbee ID menu in Composer Pro, and only have to go by devices to if you're REAL luck simply tap them 4 times (this will only work if it's an exact replacement) or do the zigbee leave mesh, and zigbee join mesh sequence: Meaning you do not have to fully re-ID all the devices, just leave that option open and go device by device to rejoin.
Again, for this you'll need a dealer.
 

Me, If there are no other wifi channels measured in the house, when wifi 1 6 and 11 are in use I'd lean towards trying zigbee 15 and 20. zigbee 25 is GREAT for when there are lots of wifi channels in use (as it's outside of spectrum), such as in apartment buildings, or some close density residential zones (or trade shows... 😉) but it's a lower power channel, so has a more limited range. zigbee 15 and 20 should be right in between/at the lowest dips of the wifi spectrum occupancy of wifi 1 and 6 and 6 and 11 respectively.

It's a combination of things (one being processing power of the controller and how many processes it's running), but in my experience it's not necessarily the controller, rather the size of the mesh geographically that tends to bog things down.  Zigbee doesn't have a ton of range and is a mesh so you'll get data hopping through repeating devices back to the Zigbee server.  A ton of devices generally means more hops, hops means packet failures.  I've seen rather large zigbee meshes with more than 70 devices work better than very spread out meshes with 30 devices when those farther devices need more than 2 hops to get back to the server.  This gets worse when some of those hops have to happen through material that is detrimental to a 2.4Ghz signal (ie tile floor, brick or concrete wall, etc).  Zigbee is rock solid when it's setup properly but that is very dependent on environment.  C4 has come up with the 70 number as a guideline not necessarily due to processing power, definitely not because of Zigbee protocol limitations, but rather from what has been discovered in the field.  If you're at 70 or less you're chances are high to have a reliable Zigbee network when taking all these factors into account.  

Not only that, but Control4 still supports the even older Contact/Relay extenders, which although they don't run a full Linux release, continue to work just fine.
They're as old as (or even older than) the Gen 1 controllers.
Control4 has a pretty good track record for not abandoning things that can continue to be supported (in-wall lighting, non-controller rack mounted gear).
RyanE

The lack of updated software on them is more a statement of how solid they are than anything else (note that there have been a few minor updates, but they're all still marked under the 2.9.1.xxxxxxx minor revisions).
The i/o extender is such a 'dumb' device that it really doesn't need to get updated to a matching version number for new features in audio streaming, zigbee, interface, streaming and so on and so forth....so they simply stopped constantly updating them as nothing oter than the software version number was getting changed. Think of it this way, if they DID update it only to match the software number every time, that would simply be a waste of time to create - and more importantly test - that software update.

I suspect that you will really enjoy the improvement!  Only thing I’d add (disagree with) is that I wouldn’t worry about your IOX they tend to last forever… I have 7 or 8 across 2 residences and nothing has died on any of them even though some are poorly located and experience extreme weather conditions.

Your welcome. Here's a bit more detail (below) on how it works, if helpful. And happy to answer questions.

 
 

 
 

 
 


 
 

CA10 as main controller
Core5 for Zigbee and audio
Rest depends on what further IO, OSD and music streaming needs you have

My vote:
CA10 & Core5, with Core1 and CA1 for mesh and local GUIs as needed.
If it's just two audio streams and you're doing the CA10 at the same time, and don't need the IO of the 5, you could do the Core3 at the rack instead.
But if the CA10 is later, start with the Core5 to replace the HC800.