Expanding Zigbee Mesh

[Viperman]

I see that you can't have more than 70 Zigbee devices connected to one controller.  When it is said and done I will probably have like 95 or so.  I have an EA5 controller.  I also have a couple HC200's laying around, but I assume that I would need something compatible with OS 3.3.

Thanks.

[mstafford388]

Get yourself a CA1 and create a second Z-Server.  Identify your zigbee devices to the appropriate Z-Server based on location. 

[Viperman]

5 minutes ago, mstafford388 said:

Get yourself a CA1 and create a second Z-Server.  Identify your zigbee devices to the appropriate Z-Server based on location. 

Couple of questions.  How do I put them on different mesh IDs?

How do I separate the devices between the 2 controllers - like if I have a switch box with 4 switches put 2 on one controller and 2 on another.  Or ike the left side of the house is controller 1 and the right side is controller 2.  

I also assume that you would still need to have the proper distance between teh switches.

I am also assuming all of this will show up in one composer.

[lippavisual]

All shows up and acts like one system, just with different servers.  I try to do left half of house on one server and the rest on another when doing multiple servers.

In other words, don’t put a CA1 right next to your EA5.  Put some distance between them.

Only devices on said server will communicate with each other to create a mesh.

So if you have 2 servers you will have 2 mesh networks. 

[Viperman]

7 minutes ago, lippavisual said:

All shows up and acts like one system, just with different servers.  I try to do left half of house on one server and the rest on another when doing multiple servers.

In other words, don’t put a CA1 right next to your EA5.  Put some distance between them.

Only devices on said server will communicate with each other to create a mesh.

So if you have 2 servers you will have 2 mesh networks. 

Do you have to disjoin the device and join it to the new network, or is there an easier way?

[chopedogg88]

yes

[Cyknight]

yes you have to remove and re-join, and yes there is a sort of easier way.

 

You don't have to re-ID them, you can set the system to 'allow join' with the 'new' server, then just do 13-4-13 at the device, then 4 top once it's done.

 

 

PS I prefer to NOT to 'wings of the house, but instead start on two sides of a house (sort of) with the device, then intertwine the meshes with their channels properly spaced. This allows remotes to keep roaming all across the house.

[C4 User]

On 11/22/2022 at 4:17 PM, Cyknight said:

You don't have to re-ID them, you can set the system to 'allow join' with the 'new' server, then just do 13-4-13 at the device, then 4 top once it's done.

@Cyknight does this process delete any programming or settings?

[lippavisual]

No it doesn’t.  Programming is based on Device ID so as long as you don’t delete the device, all programming stays. 

[C4 User]

5 hours ago, lippavisual said:

No it doesn’t.  Programming is based on Device ID so as long as you don’t delete the device, all programming stays. 

Thank you.

[JEC]

Apologies for hijacking the thread…but looking for some suggestions. I added an EA1 to my project with a mesh on channel 15. The primary is an EA5 on channel 25. I am attempting to disconnect a light from ea5 mesh and add to ea1. When trying to join, the light blinks yellow then red. It can be added to ea5 mesh just not ea1. I tried leaving mesh and resetting light but made no difference. When identifying device from network screen I am choosing ea1 as controller. 
 

Any idea why I can’t join secondary mesh?  The light is a few feet from controller. Thanks!

[Amr]

13 hours ago, JEC said:

Apologies for hijacking the thread…but looking for some suggestions. I added an EA1 to my project with a mesh on channel 15. The primary is an EA5 on channel 25. I am attempting to disconnect a light from ea5 mesh and add to ea1. When trying to join, the light blinks yellow then red. It can be added to ea5 mesh just not ea1. I tried leaving mesh and resetting light but made no difference. When identifying device from network screen I am choosing ea1 as controller. 
 

Any idea why I can’t join secondary mesh?  The light is a few feet from controller. Thanks!

Are u sure u managed to leave mesh on your device? What is your load type, you maybe not using correct leave mesh sequence. I know u said u did that already but make sure u select the EA1 for pairing otherwise it will default to the existing controller!

[JEC]

Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. Apparently the zigbee antenna came unscrewed. I tightened it on and everything joined correctly. Thanks!

[zaphod]

When you are adding additional Zigbee access points does the speed of the CPU of the controller matter?  If you are using and EA-1 vs a Core-5 will that make a difference as far as it comes to Zigbee, or are they all pretty much the same?

[msgreenf]

Pretty sure they are different 

[Matt Lowe]

1 hour ago, zaphod said:

When you are adding additional Zigbee access points does the speed of the CPU of the controller matter?  If you are using and EA-1 vs a Core-5 will that make a difference as far as it comes to Zigbee, or are they all pretty much the same?

for zigbee there will be an impact in performance based on the number of loads the amount of traffic and if the controller is doing anything else. Stick an ea1 behind a tv doing OSD and running a zigbee server with something like a motion sensor controlling multiple lights in an area, will be slower than a core 3 doing the same thing. Will you be able to perceive a difference in the real world unlikely, but it is  very possible with a large enough server.

Had a customer with an EA3 that we added more zigbee devices so it was at 70 and for a period of time had 95 devices and the system became noticeably slower. Added the ea1 and split the nodes and it was big time improvement.

[zaphod]

Thanks.  Right now I have two ZAPs on my system, but I have a bunch of other controllers that don't aren't acting as ZAPs.  One of these is an EA-1, but the rest are HC-800s so I will be taking them out sometime in the near future.

Does it make sense to use all controllers as ZAPs?  Or keep it to 2-3 as long as you don't go over 70 per ZAP?

[msgreenf]

4 minutes ago, zaphod said:

Thanks.  Right now I have two ZAPs on my system, but I have a bunch of other controllers that don't aren't acting as ZAPs.  One of these is an EA-1, but the rest are HC-800s so I will be taking them out sometime in the near future.

Does it make sense to use all controllers as ZAPs?  Or keep it to 2-3 as long as you don't go over 70 per ZAP?

No you don't want all controllers as ZAPs as each is it's only network and roaming of things like remotes get limited. 

If you need more then 2 I will be surprised 

[zaphod]

I am at about 143 right now with two ZAPs, although that includes some dead remotes that have not been removed from the system.

[South Africa C4 user]

I had an HC800 as one of 3 Zigbee meshes in my setup (each with between 50 and 70 devices) and I moved this to an EA1 (as part of my process of getting HC800s out of my system) and it was noticeably slower…

Edited January 3, 2023 by South Africa C4 user
Fixed terminology

[Cyknight]

Multiple ZAPs are no longer supported to begin with (note that is ZAP as more then one controller on a single mesh).

Will an EA1 possibly be a bit slower handling being a zigbee server and ZAP Coordinator than a core5? Likely. Will that really be noticeable on smaller (under 50) devices? Not likely. If moving from an HC800 to an EA1 created slower response I'd check the networking first...assuming they are in the same location. That is both 'true' networking as well as the zigbee netwrok/channel/overlap with wifi.

 

[zaphod]

On this issue - if you have Zigbee devices that are in your system but are not active at a given time, do these take up resources?  I am thinking specifically about SR250 or SR260 remote controls.  I have 21 of those, but only 3-4 are ever alive at any one time, the rest are sleeping. And some of the remotes died and are no longer being used so I need to have them deleted from my system.

[Cyknight]

9 minutes ago, zaphod said:

if you have Zigbee devices that are in your system but are not active at a given time, do these take up resources?

VERY minimal (health check "ping" basically) for always awake devices, a much small "ping" rate for sleepy devices (they do check in but rarely to conserve batteries. Devices that are gone but still in the system similarly generally barely use any resources (they really wouldn't be what overloads a system AT ALL) - the exception being during an update of the system where the system will try and force communication a lot more (but still , that would delay the update progress a bit for zigbee devices, this is more for networked C4 devices)

[Amr]

8 hours ago, zaphod said:

When you are adding additional Zigbee access points does the speed of the CPU of the controller matter?  If you are using and EA-1 vs a Core-5 will that make a difference as far as it comes to Zigbee, or are they all pretty much the same?

I’d create ZB servers and distribute the loads across these servers, u have a lot of stationary devices that will never move, just get closer devices together on one server, far reaching ones connect to another ZB server, I had splitted my network across 4 servers for the purpose of creating great coverage for remotes, every house floor have a ZB mesh so devices communicate faster and remotes are flawless.

It depends on house size, built, coverage, distances, other networks like WiFi, other ZB networks, etc.

[zaphod]

Thanks.  I guess even the devices that do move, like remotes, generally don't move very much