C4 Touchscreen vs iPad functionality

[msgreenf]

1 hour ago, eggzlot said:

I agree but this is why I left Android.  Not a consistent experience across the board because manufacturers use their own flavors.  Then you are at their mercy for support and updates.  At least with iOS it’s a consistent experience across the platform and there is a decent history to estimate how long Apple will support hardware before its EOL.  Usually not a big surprise.  

Pixel or bust 

[eggzlot]

41 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

Pixel or bust 

That is more of a selective choice other than saying “Android” because it doesn’t have the carrier flavors.  And as Cy said earlier yeah you are at the mercy of Android.  Minus a 1 off issue perhaps over the years they support hardware for a decent time in this market and they are fairly predicate.  Agreed none of this should impact a c4 touchscreen vs tablet debate because as said up in the thread iOS v Android for c4 is a wash.  

[msgreenf]

34 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

That is more of a selective choice other than saying “Android” because it doesn’t have the carrier flavors.  And as Cy said earlier yeah you are at the mercy of Android.  Minus a 1 off issue perhaps over the years they support hardware for a decent time in this market and they are fairly predicate.  Agreed none of this should impact a c4 touchscreen vs tablet debate because as said up in the thread iOS v Android for c4 is a wash.  

Pixel has the least amount of variability and highest level of support.

[Pounce]

1 hour ago, msgreenf said:

Pixel has the least amount of variability and highest level of support.

Too bad they no longer sell Pixel C tablets.

[msgreenf]

7 minutes ago, Pounce said:

Too bad they no longer sell Pixel C tablets.

yeah...I got a pixel book now too...Honestly I like it better

[AMG1199]

Dedicated C4 touchscreens is the way to go - unless you want to deal with the headache of having to replace iPads due to battery swelling as a result of being constantly on charge. 

I have a few T3 touch screens scattered around the house and tbh, I rarely use them. Everyone has an iPhone in their pocket or iPad laying around. I find dedicated touch screens useful for some places, like front and rear doors where alarms or scenes may be needed. 

 

[zaphod]

Would it help if you used C4 to power cycle the iPad power supply from time to time?  12 hours off, 12 hours on or something like that?

[dinom]

I’ve had a wall mounted iPad mini powered constantly for about 3 years and still looks and works perfectly. So I guess it depends. 

[AMG1199]

9 hours ago, zaphod said:

Would it help if you used C4 to power cycle the iPad power supply from time to time?  12 hours off, 12 hours on or something like that?

More difficult to do if the iPad is POE powered from a switch. 

[Pounce]

13 minutes ago, AMG1199 said:

More difficult to do if the iPad is POE powered from a switch. 

Depends. There are several switches and PoE injector options that can be automated to cycle a port.

[Neo1738]

I want to make sure I'm completely clear, you can not do intercom on ipads/android tablets ONLY on TS or just doesn't integrate well? I was told could do intercom on ipads.

[Cyknight]

49 minutes ago, Neo1738 said:

I want to make sure I'm completely clear, you can not do intercom on ipads/android tablets ONLY on TS or just doesn't integrate well? I was told could do intercom on ipads.

You cannot do normal intercom on tablets (not including the native C4 screens). You CAN now do it on iPhones and Android PHONES using a SECOND app (which also allows you to do it off-site).

There are some SIP apps that could be used, but integration there is so-so at best.

[Neo1738]

Thanks answers my question.

[Cyknight]

On 7/11/2018 at 4:56 AM, dinom said:

I’ve had a wall mounted iPad mini powered constantly for about 3 years and still looks and works perfectly. So I guess it depends. 

I know it's old but....it will depend on the mount used. A proper mount should have a sensing ability to know when the iPad is 'full' to prevent this.

[Michael De Jong]

iPad vs T3 or T4 touchscreen. It's true, the T3 or T4 is a better solution for this application. Apple's iPad (the best touch tablet to this day) is not a dedicated C4 control screen. The iPad's cost with a power adaptor looks feasible but ideally it is not as robust as the T4 Screen for the purpose of C4 functionality. Aesthetically, the C4 screen on the wall is a better solution. Now the big issue is that the T4 screens have dried up until Q3, 2021. So if you can't wait, go to an iPad. I sold Apple Products for 15 years (corporately) and I am now a system designer for Control 4 products. I love the iPad but the T4 is the right solution.

[msgreenf]

If you are just using the ipad for the c4 app not sure how it earns the badge of "best tablet". You even describe what it's not the best. Best is subjective to the use case. What's the best car? Depends on what you need...

[lippavisual]

Michael

If you’re a system designer, can we just stop selling touchscreens all together and make the app fully functional?  I’d even say start charging for a V2 version of the app that has intercom.

Design flaws, product shortages, etc just leave a bad taste in people’s mouths with the C4 screens.  Everyone has a tablet or 3 and they are sold everywhere, even with compatible wall mounts.

The high cost of the TS is a tough sell to most people.

 Thanks 

[msgreenf]

1 hour ago, lippavisual said:

Michael

If you’re a system designer, can we just stop selling touchscreens all together and make the app fully functional?  I’d even say start charging for a V2 version of the app that has intercom.

Design flaws, product shortages, etc just leave a bad taste in people’s mouths with the C4 screens.  Everyone has a tablet or 3 and they are sold everywhere, even with compatible wall mounts.

The high cost of the TS is a tough sell to most people.

 Thanks 

I don't think he means he works for c4. But maybe I am  Reading that wrong. 

[lippavisual]

50/50 shot!!!

[videostorm]

Standard Android tablet hardware using enterprise deployment mode. 

C4 could directly provision, deploy all software updates, and even lock down what can and cannot be installed on it.  Linux drivers for this would be really low effort to put together.

Best of both worlds.  Lowest cost solution that will also be super stable.

 

[RyanE]

19 hours ago, videostorm said:

Standard Android tablet hardware using enterprise deployment mode. 

C4 could directly provision, deploy all software updates, and even lock down what can and cannot be installed on it.  Linux drivers for this would be really low effort to put together.

Best of both worlds.  Lowest cost solution that will also be super stable.

Standard android tablet hardware doesn't usually have a long enough life to support.  There's a new model every year, which is not conducive to something that you're going to put 'long-term' into your wall, and if you're putting it into your wall, you're going to want standard back boxes, etc., which is something Control4 provides.

RyanE

[Cyknight]

It's such a tough discussion really.

A new iPad with nice looking wall mount isn't going to really save you significant cash.

Yes you can argue that it give you more function, but it'll do it's primary intended function not as well (a tad slower, possible startup of app, more system updates, no intercom, no webview pages....). And while it's a pain that OS3 and up only supports T3 and up, that's still a longer support cycle than iPads.

I agree with the android thing - it's pretty hard to have an android tablet stay 'up to speed' for more than a years not even considering it's intended hardware lifespan. There's some exceptions, but now you're talking about the same situation as above just using android tablets.

Plus tablets are generally not made to run 24/7 and last, and they'd be default be WiFi.

 

The whole supply debacle certainly doesn't help, but then again, that's hardly a "c4" thing, as shortages are universal and not caused by them.

The hardware issue... well also not helpful.

And I do feel that the price of the screen is high. More expensive than an iPad I can see, but half again the cost of a (basic) iPad Pro...it really ought to be more competitive in pricing. If a T4 10" wall screen is roughly the same as 'standard' iPad Pro it'd be a LOT easier to explain as a superior product.

 

I LOVE how well the T4 screens work, but that price tag is not easy to sell for our sales guys.

[videostorm]

1 hour ago, RyanE said:

Standard android tablet hardware doesn't usually have a long enough life to support.  There's a new model every year, which is not conducive to something that you're going to put 'long-term' into your wall, and if you're putting it into your wall, you're going to want standard back boxes, etc., which is something Control4 provides.

RyanE

You might be misunderstanding how enterprise mode works:

1. Customer buys any tablet listed on the enterprise mode support list   https://androidenterprisepartners.withgoogle.com/devices/?_ga=2.71282320.1848238173.1623012203-634090609.1623012203#!?device_type=tablet      (C4 may recommend specific brands as preferred)
2. When customer powers up the tablet for the first time and gets the "Enter your google account", they enter the C4 specific enterprise ID
3. Device is now locked to their C4 cloud account for all software installation, updates, and full root access
4. "Provisioning" occurs.  C4 remotely installs their app and sets the device into "Kiosk" mode so that only their (full functionality) app runs and is always in the foreground.
5. Done, you have a stable centrally managed fixed function device which can be easily replaced at any time by the customer at minimal cost.

It would really solve the problem that all tablets / touchscreens get outdated really fast.  IMO, C4 should not be trying to keep up in that hardware race.  Your touchscreen will always be a couple generations behind what customers can buy retail for less money.

The real question is if C4 could stomach the loss of some hardware revenue in order to provide a better overall solution (increasing competitivity).  Maybe possible while you are still private....

[Drake0508]

I use some android tablets with Fully Kiosk running in the background. It allows for screensaver, motion wake and auto loading of one app. After two T3 screens stopped responding to touch, I decided not to waste the money on a “premium” piece of hardware that wouldn’t last more than two years. It works well as long as intercom is not your primary concern.