Could Control4 be a solution for me?

[ABC123]

I am currently using Beovisions + Apple TVs as video clients and several Beosounds as music clients all based on B&O NetLink (not B&O Masterlink), Philips Hue as light system, Netatmo as security, weather and energy system, Roon as audio core, Plex as video core.

I am currently playing with Apple Homekit and Siri to get my different home IoTs respectively home ecosystem integrated. But somehow, I am not happy with the result. I am searching for one system I can manage ALL my different IoT devices.

1) Could Control4 be a solution for me?

2) What is a good technical starting point to get a first “proof of concept” running, to find out if Control4 is what I am looking for?

3) Is it feasible to purchase some Control4 equipment in US, it is much cheaper than in Europe.

I am a DIY, at least I enjoy it, to set-up my own automations ideas within Apple Homekit and Siri, to install and maintain my own server and NAS. Or to play with Raspberries and co.

4) What are the possibilities / boundaries I can install / maintain myself in the Control4 environment?

[turls]

It's not a DIY system.  Just by the nature of your questions, it's not going to be what you're looking for.

[GaryK]

2 hours ago, ABC123 said:

I am searching for one system I can manage ALL my different IoT devices.

We all are.

[South Africa C4 user]

Control4 would do all that you want BUT it is not DIY.

[C4 User]

Control4 is not DIY, but there is a LOT you can do yourself and there are many remote dealers that can support you with the things you cannot do yourself. I would take a look at it and connect with a remote dealer on this site to learn for yourself what is possible. There are also threads on this site that explain more of what is and is not possible for a DIY. 

[Amr]

On 4/29/2021 at 1:34 PM, ABC123 said:

I am currently using Beovisions + Apple TVs as video clients and several Beosounds as music clients all based on B&O NetLink (not B&O Masterlink), Philips Hue as light system, Netatmo as security, weather and energy system, Roon as audio core, Plex as video core.

I am currently playing with Apple Homekit and Siri to get my different home IoTs respectively home ecosystem integrated. But somehow, I am not happy with the result. I am searching for one system I can manage ALL my different IoT devices.

1) Could Control4 be a solution for me?

2) What is a good technical starting point to get a first “proof of concept” running, to find out if Control4 is what I am looking for?

3) Is it feasible to purchase some Control4 equipment in US, it is much cheaper than in Europe.

I am a DIY, at least I enjoy it, to set-up my own automations ideas within Apple Homekit and Siri, to install and maintain my own server and NAS. Or to play with Raspberries and co.

4) What are the possibilities / boundaries I can install / maintain myself in the Control4 environment?

What are you really looking for here?

-Is Audio/Video distribution a thing for you?

-Are you looking for a unified UI and unified user experience using one remote? or iPhone?

- Do you need any automation rules for triggering specific events?

- Lighting scenes or automation?

One note Netatmo will be a challenge with C4.

[ABC123]

Thank you for all your comments.

I am looking for, in the following order:
1) unified UI and unified user experience based on iPad and iPhone (app)
2) Automation rules for triggering specific events, going down to select the correct App AND content (e.g. in Plex, Netflix, Disney+) on my Apple TV (including light scenes, but that I already get from Homekit - would not be the reason to change)

3) Audio distribution? Currently I am using Roon Core on my NAS and I stream via Airplay to my B&O Beolabs / Beosounds. I am not sure if it is more user friendly (unified UI) to use Audio streaming via Control4?

Why is Netatmo challenging?
Main integration point I use Netatmo within Homekit is for presence detection via the security cameras to start automations (e.g. turning on / off lights).

[wnpublic]

1 hour ago, ABC123 said:

Thank you for all your comments.

I am looking for, in the following order:
1) unified UI and unified user experience based on iPad and iPhone (app)
2) Automation rules for triggering specific events, going down to select the correct App AND content (e.g. in Plex, Netflix, Disney+) on my Apple TV (including light scenes, but that I already get from Homekit - would not be the reason to change)

3) Audio distribution? Currently I am using Roon Core on my NAS and I stream via Airplay to my B&O Beolabs / Beosounds. I am not sure if it is more user friendly (unified UI) to use Audio streaming via Control4?

Why is Netatmo challenging?
Main integration point I use Netatmo within Homekit is for presence detection via the security cameras to start automations (e.g. turning on / off lights).

Control4 model is not to tie together a bunch of different already-in-your-house IoT items (what I think you want, unless you are planning to replace a bunch of stuff).  It's to provide a (relatively) closed (or relatively open, depending on your view), dealer-administered stable infrastructure for whole home automation, including lighting, shades/fans, A/V, thermostat, cameras, intercom - quite a few of which are either the house brand or a subset of brands whose integration is supported by C4 and known to work well by your dealer.  And to the extent that a driver has been written for this or that IoT thing, support for that too as a lagniappe. 

You say you are a DIYer - if you want to experiment tying your listed items together, try Home Assistant.  There are integrations there for each of those items.

[Neo1738]

Agree with above C4 can but really isn't meant to be only integrating multiple other brands. It has that capability but isn't where it shines. Also it is not nearly DIY enough for you. You can do the programming but adding, removing, or setting connections all need a dealer. Want a new driver, need a dealer. Got a new TV? need a dealer etc. 

[Amr]

On 5/1/2021 at 3:56 PM, ABC123 said:

Thank you for all your comments.

I am looking for, in the following order:
1) unified UI and unified user experience based on iPad and iPhone (app)
2) Automation rules for triggering specific events, going down to select the correct App AND content (e.g. in Plex, Netflix, Disney+) on my Apple TV (including light scenes, but that I already get from Homekit - would not be the reason to change)

3) Audio distribution? Currently I am using Roon Core on my NAS and I stream via Airplay to my B&O Beolabs / Beosounds. I am not sure if it is more user friendly (unified UI) to use Audio streaming via Control4?

Why is Netatmo challenging?
Main integration point I use Netatmo within Homekit is for presence detection via the security cameras to start automations (e.g. turning on / off lights).

NA, for these use cases C4 is not for you, better go to HA being the best UI out there and have integrations to all your devices and use cases

[ABC123]

Thank you very much for directing me to HA (Home Assistant), could be the solution offering what I am looking for.

[BraydonH]

On 5/1/2021 at 9:07 AM, wnpublic said:

Control4 model is not to tie together a bunch of different already-in-your-house IoT items

That may not be the "core" of their business but let me tell you C4 does a great job of integrating with most off the shelf consumer toys on the market. It certainly seems to have more drivers and compatibility than other systems. Does the home depot gear works as well at the C4 counterpart? No, not even close. But can control4 tie all that stuff together and make it work fairly good, absolutely.

I think its awesome that I can bring in C4 and tie in someone's Nest Thermostat, Caseta Lighting, Google Home ect... That's a huge selling point for me.

[wnpublic]

1 hour ago, BraydonH said:

That may not be the "core" of their business but let me tell you C4 does a great job of integrating with most off the shelf consumer toys on the market. It certainly seems to have more drivers and compatibility than other systems.

Except, you know, almost every zwave device, zigbee device, Nest cameras, basically every cloud service, myQ (but they get a pass because Chamberlain is evil).

1 hour ago, BraydonH said:

It certainly seems to have more drivers and compatibility than other systems.

Other professionally installed systems.

1 hour ago, BraydonH said:

Does the home depot gear works as well at the C4 counterpart?

Many of the "home depot" gear, like Ring, has more features than the C4 camera integration.

[BraydonH]

Oh I don't argue that. C4 camera interface/proxy is abysmal. Its got to be among the worst in the industry. Live viewing only? Only lower res supported? Yea C4 cameras and integration are a joke. We use Unifi Protect and tell customers to pass and not even get the cinegration driver to tie them in with C4 because there is no point with a camera proxy that bad. The unifi cameras don't even pull a proper preview image because the C4 proxy is limited. They basically need to redo cameras from the ground up.

Yes, it would be nice if a wider range of Z-wave devices were supported. I have used the Z-Wave dongle a few times with supported devices and it absolutely sucks. The range and reliability of the Z-Wave gear is terrible. I now think ZigBee is much better and more reliable than Z-Wave and even if more Z-wave devices were supported I would probably still push the Control4 Zigbee stuff because it is just that much better. The ZigBee kwikset locks compared to the same lock but z-wave are a night and day difference in reliability. 

MyQ is definitely a sore subject. This one baffles me, but I agree its crazy we don't have an official solution. (with a free driver). Really surprises me that they aren't official partners and don't work together. Seems like a no brainer for both parties.

And once again throwing in my vote for a color wheel. This is way over due. C4 needs to keep hearing this request.

 

But yea my biggest C4 hopes/requests are for an amazing camera proxy that supports everything (like ring/nest cameras) as well as rewind/playback, and a color wheel. Hard pass on the crappy Z-wave stuff and if you want MyQ integration it can be done (after jumping through a few hoops). 

[msgreenf]

So only Chamberlain makes the evil list?

Not ring or nest?

[BraydonH]

I mean personally I don't care that Ring or Nest Cameras don't work. They suck at the best of times to begin with. And like mentioned before their native apps will always work better than the C4 app.

The MyQ thing is a bit harder to understand. There's no good reason C4 doesn't natively integrate with MyQ. This one hurts way more.

So only Chamberlain on the evil list in my books.

[wnpublic]

8 minutes ago, msgreenf said:

So only Chamberlain makes the evil list?

Not ring or nest?

Nest seems baffling more than evil.  They have published a near-complete API (after pulling the earlier one in the name of security), but it's nearly impossible to set up (and then keep up once working). 

[msgreenf]

I view the fact that I can't access Ring on Google Home or access Nest on Amazon Echo as evil....

[eggzlot]

MyQ seems the strangest to me - because they do not charge their users to use their own apps with upsell services, etc.  Nest, Ring, etc have paid subscription plans I believe to get more storage and different support, features, etc (feel free to correct me).  So Nest/Ring want you to stay in their ecosystem, use their apps, get comfortable with them, pay them monthly, etc.  They do not want to turn the user experience over to Control4.  But MyQ has no upsell, so why do they care if someone uses the MyQ app or the Control4 app - that is beyond me.  I guess I've read it comes down to potentially a safety issue and if there is an issue - where and who points the finger?  I mean MyQ does have integration partners so its not foreign to them to set up partnerships: https://www.myq.com/works-with-myq

[BraydonH]

Thats why its even more confusing. Alarm.com, Claire, Google, Amazon, Vivint are all partners. Why not C4 too? Makes you wonder if there is more to this than meets the eye.

[wnpublic]

9 minutes ago, eggzlot said:

MyQ seems the strangest to me - because they do not charge their users to use their own apps with upsell services, etc.  Nest, Ring, etc have paid subscription plans I believe to get more storage and different support, features, etc (feel free to correct me).  So Nest/Ring want you to stay in their ecosystem, use their apps, get comfortable with them, pay them monthly, etc.  They do not want to turn the user experience over to Control4.  But MyQ has no upsell, so why do they care if someone uses the MyQ app or the Control4 app - that is beyond me.  I guess I've read it comes down to potentially a safety issue and if there is an issue - where and who points the finger?  I mean MyQ does have integration partners so its not foreign to them to set up partnerships: https://www.myq.com/works-with-myq

Yeah - Chamberlain has been actively changing the API to prevent "unofficial" integrations from working.

[eggzlot]

34 minutes ago, wnpublic said:

Yeah - Chamberlain has been actively changing the API to prevent "unofficial" integrations from working.

yeah i know they are changing the API.  I've heard its a liability issue.  I've heard they want a few cents (or maybe fraction of a cent) for each call to their cloud from Control4.  Who knows.  Just saying I get why Nest/Ring want you "in their ecosystem" because they are upselling monthly paid services, additional hardware - have a camera, now buy our motion sensor, etc.  With MyQ, its a 1 time purchase, there are no monthly fees, no additional hardware to upsell, no real "ecosystem".  if I open/close my door 3x a day its the same amount of cloud call/traffic if I do it via their app or the C4 app.  So that baffles me but I also do not lose sleep over it.

[videostorm]

9 hours ago, wnpublic said:

Nest seems baffling more than evil.  They have published a near-complete API (after pulling the earlier one in the name of security), but it's nearly impossible to set up (and then keep up once working). 

What is the current status of Nest in C4?   Integrating their cams in SplashTiles is next up in our dev backlog.  Why is their API so hard to work with?  Would be nice to learn from the past attempts.....