Performance of CA-10 versus new "Core 5" controller

[cnicholson]

Hello.

I was advised to get a CA-10 for my project.   Do we know anything about the relative CPU performance improvement of the Core 5 versus EA-5?   The CA-10 is advertised as 4X faster than (outgoing) EA-5.   Core 5 has a new CPU.  I'm wondering if I can get away with Core 5 now, instead.    I know the CA-10 lacks media, but does have a lot of redundancy--- so other factors are at play.  Just wondering strictly about CPU performance (and maybe RAM if that is a bottleneck). 

 

[RAV]

The CA10 is still way faster, and a LOT more memory (32GB vs 4), and redundancy.

If its a large project, you want it as responsive as possible, and or you want maximum uptime, still go with the CA10

[Neo1738]

If it helps talked to my installer (have EA5 and CA10) amd he said don't bother w Core 5 right now as CA 10 is at least as good.

[cnicholson]

Thanks guys.  Exactly the input I was seeking.  Since the original plan was to get an EA5 and a CA10, I might try to go with just the Core 5 at first, assuming it's reasonably straightforward to add a CA10 later and make it the main controller.    

Is there such a thing as a benchmark score / process to objectively measure how fast/responsive a system is at common tasks?

[RAV]

Are you doing Control4 audio?
If not, you might consider a CA10 and Core1

[Neo1738]

1 hour ago, cnicholson said:

Thanks guys.  Exactly the input I was seeking.  Since the original plan was to get an EA5 and a CA10, I might try to go with just the Core 5 at first, assuming it's reasonably straightforward to add a CA10 later and make it the main controller.    

Is there such a thing as a benchmark score / process to objectively measure how fast/responsive a system is at common tasks?

No benchmark also I believe these are Linux based. 

[Cyknight]

2 hours ago, Neo1738 said:

If it helps talked to my installer (have EA5 and CA10) amd he said don't bother w Core 5 right now as CA 10 is at least as good.

Better. The Core5 is (will be) an updated EA5, with more audio outputs and a boost in performance - there would be absolutely no reason performance wise to swap the ea5 to a core5, and you'd lose capability if you take the ca10 out

 

1 hour ago, cnicholson said:

I might try to go with just the Core 5 at first, assuming it's reasonably straightforward to add a CA10 later and make it the main controller

 

It isn't a huge deal to move the programming over, especially as the CA10 would be an addition. But it's difficult to say if going to a CA10 would not still be the better choice. Question is what the EA5 was intended to be USED for to begin with. Chances are it was for ZigBee and i/o (IR, audio outputs) only to begin with, but we can't say for sure, or how many IR you need in the first place, or do you need any a all (ie is there any i/o extender planned....

 

Also, I have to make this note - any system that NEEDS a CA-10 must be a large system, and more or less would have to include lighting. If that is the case, and it is C4 lighting (not a 3rd party solution) than 'just a single EA5 with a C10 is NOT a smart move, as you're likely beyond the recommended max of 70 zigbee devices per zigbee mesh, and you'd be better off getting two EA (or core) 3's.

 

More to the point would be to tell us WHY you've been recommended to get a CA-10 (as it sounds like this is an existing system perhaps)? IS it to boost an existing system? Why would it require more than you have (what is happening that makes you/your dealer think you need one)

[cnicholson]

1 hour ago, Cyknight said:

More to the point would be to tell us WHY you've been recommended to get a CA-10 (as it sounds like this is an existing system perhaps)? IS it to boost an existing system? Why would it require more than you have (what is happening that makes you/your dealer think you need one)

Thanks.

It's a new build.  I have around 200 dimmable lighting loads and couple hundred other switched circuits (shades, fans, etc.).  But most of that is on Lutron.  I still plan on controlling everything via C4 (from a UI/controller perspective, with a mix of Lutron and C4 keypads).  It did not occur to me that Lutron Panelized lighting would be less of a strain on C4 controller than C4 panelized lighting (if that's what you're saying).  I guess that makes some sense.

My installer is asking the C4 rep for advice.  If it's a judgment call, I think I will start with Core 5 and see how snappy things feel, and add CA10 later (if needed).  I for sure need the Core 5 for media and I/O so no harm in starting with that (I don't think).  I imagine the "load" on controller has more to do with how computationally "fancy" the device/driver is versus just node count, but I am new to all of this.  

[cnicholson]

2 hours ago, RAV said:

Are you doing Control4 audio?
If not, you might consider a CA10 and Core1

I plan to use C4 to control audio matrix and for Shairbridge and some C4 native sources.  Installer has quoted EA-1 for every TV (I'll have a bunch), but still debating that.  I'm obviously trying to get Core 1's instead where I do use them.  The 4K interface is a selling point and I assume they'll also support H.265 and 4K video streaming, although maybe that is bad assumption--- but I'm sure the hardware will support that.

[Cyknight]

6 minutes ago, cnicholson said:

Lutron Panelized lighting would be less of a strain on C4 controller than C4 panelized lighting (if that's what you're saying).

I'm not - it's not strain on the main controller - it's reliability/speed of the ZigBee mesh that becomes a problem once you're over 70 zigbee devices, so you would need more than one controller WITH ZIGBEE (the ca-10 does not) to divide it up. That said if you're mainly Lutron, those devices won't count towards THAT specific limitation. Still, I'd count the final Zigbee devices (keypads, remotes etc) and make sure I'm not hitting that 70 number if I was your dealer.

9 minutes ago, cnicholson said:

 If it's a judgment call, I think I will start with Core 5 and see how snappy things feel

Sure - but again, we can't REALLY comment on if it's that, or a more firm - yes you should get a CA-10.

You're not wrong thought, if it's a new build, it won't (really) hurt to start with a Core5, add a CA-10 later.

This story would be different if it was existing, and you'd be going to a Core5 to replace (or put overtop) a CA10

[cnicholson]

2 minutes ago, Cyknight said:

it's reliability/speed of the ZigBee mesh that becomes a problem once you're over 70 zigbee devices

Got it.  Makes sense.   I think I will have to consider this as I decide which TVs to put Core 1's behind.   I guess it will be a combo of where I think it would be useful to have them AND where I need them for a solid ZigBee mesh.    I'm not sure how often I would use the OSD, but I think it would be handy to have in guest areas, since I think OSD might be more approachable for people (maybe even including my wife).  

[ILoveC4]

14 hours ago, cnicholson said:

Got it.  Makes sense.   I think I will have to consider this as I decide which TVs to put Core 1's behind.   I guess it will be a combo of where I think it would be useful to have them AND where I need them for a solid ZigBee mesh.    I'm not sure how often I would use the OSD, but I think it would be handy to have in guest areas, since I think OSD might be more approachable for people (maybe even including my wife).  

If you’ve got video and audio I think you’ll use the UI more than you expect. I’d do what your dealer recommends - they’re the ones supporting it and you don’t want them coming back and reminding you that you went against their advice. Find a dealer you trust and do what they say - trust them over any random person on the internet. 

[DanITman]

On 5/21/2022 at 3:16 PM, RAV said:

The CA10 is still way faster, and a LOT more memory (32GB vs 4), and redundancy.

If its a large project, you want it as responsive as possible, and or you want maximum uptime, still go with the CA10

Not sure where you got 32gb.  The CA-10 only has 8GB of RAM

[DanITman]

I don't understand the need for an EA1 / CORE1 at every TV.  This is a bit overkill.  The OSD (on-screen display) is overrated as most people will just pull out their phone to check cameras.  The Control4 Navigator (what controls the mobile app and OSD) doesn't support 4k cameras.  I believe the new controllers will allow 1080p camera feeds.  Right now its restricted at 720 resolution on the OSD.  With the new Zigbee Mesh requirements dealers won't be able to use them as ZAPs so it won't be for zigbee mesh coverage.   I say drop them if you don't need them.  You can always add them later if you feel the OSD is really needed. 

CA-10 vs EA5.  I've had both and currently run the CA-10.  I think you should go for the ca-10 in a new build as it will future proof the system and won't be that much more expensive once you drop all those EA1/CORE1

One last edit:

Sharebridge really isn't that good.  Its an older airplay 1 standard.  I use sonos and it allows you to interact with the music in many ways and still integrates with C4.  I would think through how you use your music and how you plan to interact with it. Sonos offers the greatest flexibility between airplay2, voice control, native apps, and control4. 

[cnicholson]

1 hour ago, DanITman said:

Sharebridge really isn't that good.  Its an older airplay 1 standard.  I use sonos and it allows you to interact with the music in many ways and still integrates with C4.

I'll have a Sonos Port on the matrix, so I'll have that flexibility.  I'm trying to make the system guest friendly.  My plan for Shairbridge is to set it up so I can tell guests who want to play their iPhone music on the system to (after joining my WiFi) "Just airplay your music to 'SB XYZ'" and music will magically start playing in the target zone (or group of zones).   That's the idea, anyway.   From a "full off" state, I don't think there's an easy way for a guest to AirPlay to Sonos Port and have things "just work."   If there is, I'd love to know how.  If sure it is *possible*, but I don't know how.

The "Core 1's behind guest TVs" plan is kinda the same (maybe bad) logic: make it brain dead for guests, even ones who don't have the C4 app on their phones.

[DanITman]

35 minutes ago, cnicholson said:

I'll have a Sonos Port on the matrix, so I'll have that flexibility.  I'm trying to make the system guest friendly.  My plan for Shairbridge is to set it up so I can tell guests who want to play their iPhone music on the system to (after joining my WiFi) "Just airplay your music to 'SB XYZ'" and music will magically start playing in the target zone (or group of zones).   That's the idea, anyway.   From a "full off" state, I don't think there's an easy way for a guest to AirPlay to Sonos Port and have things "just work."   If there is, I'd love to know how.  If sure it is *possible*, but I don't know how.

The "Core 1's behind guest TVs" plan is kinda the same (maybe bad) logic: make it brain dead for guests, even ones who don't have the C4 app on their phones.

I run Sonos Amps so its even more simple for my guests.  They can airplay to any zone on their phone and also group from their phones.  You won't be able to do that with shairbridge.  How will the shairbridge know what room they are in?  Sonos can also do alexa and play any content in any zone. 

The ea1 isn't necessary behind each TV to make it simple. I thought you were putting the EA1 behind each TV for OSD for camera viewing. Other than that the OSD doesn't do much that they couldn't do directly on the Remote without viewing the OSD.  The neeo could have a netflix logo that would make it pretty simple. 

I run Roku TVs which allow my guest to still pick up a roku remote and easily use the TV.  Since I use Sonos sound bars they still get great audio without having to worry about turning something on in C4.  If you don't want to offer a different remote, its still easy to use a neeo and sr-260.  If you still want to use the EA1 then you will have to tell the guest to click the red c4 button to get started. 

[South Africa C4 user]

 

2 hours ago, cnicholson said:

I'll have a Sonos Port on the matrix, so I'll have that flexibility.  I'm trying to make the system guest friendly.  My plan for Shairbridge is to set it up so I can tell guests who want to play their iPhone music on the system to (after joining my WiFi) "Just airplay your music to 'SB XYZ'" and music will magically start playing in the target zone (or group of zones).   That's the idea, anyway.   From a "full off" state, I don't think there's an easy way for a guest to AirPlay to Sonos Port and have things "just work."   If there is, I'd love to know how.  If sure it is *possible*, but I don't know how.

The "Core 1's behind guest TVs" plan is kinda the same (maybe bad) logic: make it brain dead for guests, even ones who don't have the C4 app on their phones.

I’ve done the same thing with ShairBridge and it works wonders for guests as they simply airplay to downstairs or guest bedroom or whatever they want.  Personally, I never use ShairBridge but guests do.

[therockhr]

On 5/21/2022 at 7:01 PM, cnicholson said:

I plan to use C4 to control audio matrix and for Shairbridge and some C4 native sources.  Installer has quoted EA-1 for every TV (I'll have a bunch), but still debating that.  I'm obviously trying to get Core 1's instead where I do use them.  The 4K interface is a selling point and I assume they'll also support H.265 and 4K video streaming, although maybe that is bad assumption--- but I'm sure the hardware will support that.

There is a close to zero chance you need an EA-1 at every TV. 

I'll still never understand how the on screen display continues to survive every hardware refresh cycle. I cant see how it is justified to maintain given how everyone has a display in their pocket (their phone) or can pick up an ipad or dedicated touchscreen.

[cnicholson]

1 hour ago, therockhr said:

I cant see how it is justified to maintain given how everyone has a display in their pocket (their phone) or can pick up an ipad or dedicated touchscreen.

I guess I was assuming that guests, even if they download C4 app and join my WiFi would not be able to control my system with their phones.  I assumed they would need accounts set up.   Maybe I could set up an account for each guest area so the app would (implicitly) know where they are?   I guess I need to think about this some more.

Imagine you're staying in a room with sheers, blinds, fans, several lighting loads, HVAC, heated bathroom floors, speakers, TV, fireplace, outside water features and lights, etc.   I thought the most approachable thing would be to say: Hit "C4" on remote and control everything from TV screen.   

Maybe leaving an iPad in each area would be better.  IDK.

I'll probably start with a couple Core 1's in primary guest areas and see how it goes.

[DanITman]

1 minute ago, cnicholson said:

I guess I was assuming that guests, even if they download C4 app and join my WiFi would not be able to control my system with their phones.  I assumed they would need accounts set up.   Maybe I could set up an account for each guest area so the app would (implicitly) know where they are?   I guess I need to think about this some more.

Imagine you're staying in a room with sheers, blinds, fans, several lighting loads, HVAC, heated bathroom floors, speakers, TV, fireplace, outside water features and lights, etc.   I thought the most approachable thing would be to say: Hit "C4" on remote and control everything from TV screen.   

Maybe leaving an iPad in each area would be better.  IDK.

I'll probably start with a couple Core 1's in primary guest areas and see how it goes.

Just give them a neeo with icons, it looks the same as the OSD and very similar to the App.  Most likely lighting and shades will be wall keypad controls.  I don't think giving them access to the c4 app is smart....I don't ever give guest access to that. 

[therockhr]

26 minutes ago, cnicholson said:

I guess I was assuming that guests, even if they download C4 app and join my WiFi would not be able to control my system with their phones.  I assumed they would need accounts set up.   Maybe I could set up an account for each guest area so the app would (implicitly) know where they are?   I guess I need to think about this some more.

Imagine you're staying in a room with sheers, blinds, fans, several lighting loads, HVAC, heated bathroom floors, speakers, TV, fireplace, outside water features and lights, etc.   I thought the most approachable thing would be to say: Hit "C4" on remote and control everything from TV screen.   

Maybe leaving an iPad in each area would be better.  IDK.

I'll probably start with a couple Core 1's in primary guest areas and see how it goes.

Having an ipad would be the better option.

The on screen display is one of those things that sounds good (looks good in a one off demo as well) but in practice just isnt that useful.

[C4 User]

2 hours ago, therockhr said:

'll still never understand how the on screen display continues to survive every hardware refresh cycle. I cant see how it is justified to maintain given how everyone has a display in their pocket (their phone) or can pick up an ipad or dedicated touchscreen.

Interesting. My wife and I would be lost without the OSD. We both have iPhones and iPads. I rarely pull my either out to navigate the tv. I continue to hope that C4 upgrades hardware to enable full 4k OSD - especially for camera viewing on the tv. 

[DanITman]

16 minutes ago, C4 User said:

Interesting. My wife and I would be lost without the OSD. We both have iPhones and iPads. I rarely pull my either out to navigate the tv. I continue to hope that C4 upgrades hardware to enable full 4k OSD - especially for camera viewing on the tv. 

Curious...is that mainly what you use OSD for is cameras?

[C4 User]

23 minutes ago, DanITman said:

Curious...is that mainly what you use OSD for is cameras?

No. I use OSD to select my video source, and even channel or app selection where available. If I’m at the tv and I want to see what is happening in one of the cameras, depending what Im watching, I may use the OSD or I may use iPad or iPhone. Or if I get up for some reason, I may use on of the T4’s. There are times that I select the source directly from the remote, but rarely. I almost always start the tv with the big red button and go from there. Same is true for my wife. And its especially true if we have a house sitter or guests using one of the TV’s.

[therockhr]

18 minutes ago, C4 User said:

No. I use OSD to select my video source, and even channel or app selection where available. If I’m at the tv and I want to see what is happening in one of the cameras, depending what Im watching, I may use the OSD or I may use iPad or iPhone. Or if I get up for some reason, I may use on of the T4’s. There are times that I select the source directly from the remote, but rarely. I almost always start the tv with the big red button and go from there. Same is true for my wife. And its especially true if we have a house sitter or guests using one of the TV’s.

clicking the watch button and then choosing the source on the remote seems quicker to me.