Mark LaBelle Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Not to stir up controversy, but why doesn't Control4 sell or give out Composer Pro? Yes for obvious reasons, they want to protect their dealers and installers, but like my business which I owned for many years reselling and implementing very complex ERP and CRM systems to very large organizations with skilled staff. Yes, we were always the ones that sold the software (where we made nice margins on the initial sale) implemented and then we handed the keys off to the team that was going to have to maintain it for years to come. They owned the code and the development environment, so they could handle it going forward. They only called us for significant issues, upgrades, etc. It is a common and quite acceptable model. They also paid their enhancement/maintenance for a nominal fee each year. This model would do wonders for Control4. One, it still protects the dealers and installers and increases the adoption rate. They could easily get a margin on the Enhancement/Maintenance each year, which would be payment for the use of ComposerPro. It wouldn't cannibalize their install base, as there are very few that want to or need to be in control of the environment, but it would open it up to more people that are shying away from Control4 (which was me until I was forced up against a wall with URC and didn't want to go Crestron or AMX). I just don't get it. Can someone enlighten me why this is such a sticking point with Control4? Also, not to poke the bear here, but right now with Control4, is quite similar to my industry - many of the more skilled people are the ones that OWN the system not the installers. I also find the capacity in the channel of high-level techs greatly lacking. The response times are poor and overall Best Practices on how to install Control4 in complex environments is completely missing in most cases. I'd say 90% of their dealers/installers are more interested in the margins on the NEW hardware and NEW sales than on keeping existing customers happy. Think about it - I can sell a new system with margin on hardware and larger services revenue by volume OR I can get onesy twosey service calls to add/remove hardware, tweak a setting, do some driver installs, etc. As a dealer/installer, I'd go for the NET NEW ADD not the existing customer. That's what I see from most of these company's. The very fact that a Paulson's or a Big Ed's or a BigBox is going to rep Control4 means nothing to me. I want qualified technicians the first time around - set it up right and then give me the keys. Seems so odd that Control4 is missing the point on how to truly grow this... they will lose out to the crappy IRIS' and Internet of Things people. Just IMHO! Talk amongst yourselves. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark LaBelle Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Wanted to also add that I finally got a response from my old dealer after 63 days that said merely, "we've been busy...how about April 7th?". Now that my friends is Customer Service at it's best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 You post kinda answers itself. "To large large organizations with skilled staff" C4 does give end users Composer Home which which you can do a lot of damage to your system with a lack of skill. If you have Composer Home you "owned the code and the development environment, so they could handle it going forward." Going back to your post. "They only called us for significant issues, upgrades, etc." Well upgrades is the one thing you need Composer Pro for to make sure the new devices have the right drivers and are installed in the right branch of the project etc. So IMHO the model you describe above is similar to the model that C4 actually uses. Now clearly your boss would be unhappy with you if a customer called for a significant issue or upgrade and it took you 2 months to go back to them to sell that, and that customer would be upset, just like you are but the model is similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark LaBelle Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 If they add a piece of equipment or a new employee comes on board they don't need to call us. :-) They just add it..... Funny thing is, my business is focused on larger organizations, but the complexity of even the smaller ones we deal with is the same as the Fortune 100. This can be easily translated to this market - the Middle-Upper Income families are spending more on complexity - the "Internet of Things". Everything is connected now and the Mom or Dad has to be proficient to some degree to keep all this stuff working. Tablets, Phones, Laptops, LED Colored Remote Controlled Lighting, Wireless Outlets, USB Charging stations in our walls, Occupancy Sensors, Wireless Networks, Printers, NAS, Streaming Audio/Video, Home Theater, etc. What the rich had the less rich now have and want... It's the way technology works. Control4 will lose out if they don't open this up. The "Internet of Things" is progressing way too fast and people aren't going to want to invest in something they don't have control over. You call an expert when you need one, otherwise, you maintain your own home. We all aren't plumbers, but we can unplug a toilet and when we can't, guess what? We call a plumber. Let us maintain our own homes. So why not have an opt in for $XXX amount per year where you can license ComposerPro? Recurring revenue for both the dealer/installers and Control4. Everyone wins! If you screw it up, than even better, I have to call a dealer/installer to fix it. Win/Win/Win By the way, this isn't buyer's remorse. I love my Control4 system and I have it doing amazing things and my wife loves it. It's not the cost, it's the pain the ass in calling someone to get a piece added, a move, a tweak to programming, etc. We live life and life changes. I just got rid of Cable because we don't need it anymore. That's removing 4 boxes from 4 locations and setting up Roku, adding some Blu-ray replacements, etc. All stuff that a homeowner should be able to do. The drivers are there and to create one is not that hard quite frankly. I'd put Control4 programming up there with programming a VCR. It's not rocket science unless Control4/Dealers/installers make you want to think it is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFUG Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Wanted to also add that I finally got a response from my old dealer after 63 days that said merely, "we've been busy...how about April 7th?". Now that my friends is Customer Service at it's best!It's relative. 63 days is better than never. Good dealers doing business in lucrative areas are going to be busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark LaBelle Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Fair enough.. This did make me laugh, but still it made my point. Capacity is an issue and all the better to offload that to skilled people willing to do the work. Homeowners that know better. Trust me, after the job they did on my system, I can't believe they fall into the category of "Good Dealers". I'm still trying to figure out what IR ports are what since ComposerHE won't show you which ones are allocated to what and he didn't label them, even after seeing my immaculate rack (don't laugh) and how much time, effort and money was spent on tying everything off with custom-made cables and Velcro ties to lacing bars on a Middle Atlantic rack. Label something please! Phillips did it with Pronto - so sorry to see them go, URC gives you the development environment, you can even get Crestron's access. Why not Control4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP Rizal Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It's relative. 63 days is better than never. Good dealers doing business in lucrative areas are going to be busy. relative yes, but I'll be hard press to find any paying customer to consider this acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I see this as an area that enough owners / users can screw up. Not necessarily the tech savvy ones, but those who just want their system to work. I also see a niche where with the remote access functionality and a sufficiently smart user (and maybe a specific list of SDDP devices) the user could plug it in, connect it up and then message a central control 4 device connectivity team or this could be something offloaded by dealers to that team, because yes it is annoying to get a shiney new toy and find that it takes 63 days to schedule an appointment to add that device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdepaola Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It's relative. 63 days is better than never. Good dealers doing business in lucrative areas are going to be busy. My company and the company my wife works for are all busy, but I can guarantee that I would never let an e-mail or a phone call go more then 24 hours without some sort of respose. NEVER... There is nothing relative about this what so ever, no mater how you try to defend it. I can call companies far more busy then any integrator and get a phone call back the same day or within 24 hours. More then 3 days and your fired and I've moved on to a new contractor. I don't expect you to do my work right away but I better get a response in a timely manner where you tell me when you can do my project or your going to have one less customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillmark99 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 ^ I couldn't have said it better myself. Anything over 24 hours on a call or email back is unacceptable in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 A fortune 100 it shop isn't a fair comparison to a home owner. Sorry. I work in it for a Fortune 60 company w over 5000 people on It. Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 But I do agree, service from your dealer sucks Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark LaBelle Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 I didn't say it was... I said the needs of a company from an ERP and CRM perspective are similar. Companies are all now global, customer pressure and delivery, quality, etc. is all the same. Yes, the larger the company the more people, but the functionality needed to meet their business objectives is the same. You are missing my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK1 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Time to change your dealer. There are a number of dealers in this online community, including my own company, who have carved out good relationships with DIY-type clients who want more "ownership" of the technology in their homes. Many of these relationships are remote or long distance. I would venture your dealer is just not cut out for or interested in this type of relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Talk amongst yourselves. :-) You don't need to say any more... If only you knew how true this last sentence was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I agree they should be a way to own Composer Pro (at a cost) but it should be designed only to allow the own to log into C4 via LAN - Dealers only can remote in. Even my dealer as started to agree to this. My dad always say more bees with honey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK1 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Gary, that's a really good idea. There is a very small community of users wanting this capability. I am sure they would pay a decent fee for the Composer Pro version. And if it was locked to their registered controller (their "LAN" as you put it), then they could only break their projects. Their dealers would likely make some decent coin in "unbreaking" some of their programming attempts! And it would also improve the perception of Control4, at least in this community, by opening up things a little more.I agree they should be a way to own Composer Pro (at a cost) but it should be designed only to allow the own to log into C4 via LAN - Dealers only can remote in. Even my dealer as started to agree to this. My dad always say more bees with honey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark LaBelle Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 That is a great idea! And believe me, everyone I talk to that is looking at Control4 is not interested in being under-Control, so it will not only open up their perception here, it will out there also..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 believe me, everyone I talk to that is looking at Control4 is not interested in being under-Control ..careful.... watch out with those Liberal attitudes ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas3622 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I have been shot down before in this but I think this is a great idea. I have no interest in being able to do things on others systems - just my own. Locking it to your controller MAC address or serial number or whatever may be a great idea. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Partially I'm sure it's the lawyers. If you attach a cost to the software, then if you end up in a copyright lawsuit, it's clear what your losses are, x times y units.With out a cost, with software locked to authorized dealers only, you can claim much more loss. It's not always about locking out an end user, or revune, but protecting company assets and liabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas3622 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I am pretty sure I would be installing a lot more stuff (which is what any company wants) if I could do it myself. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas3622 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 And I don't buy this argument that someone will ruin their system. You can always reload the last saved program. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 If they went down this road pro should advise a pre load backup. Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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