AK1 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Msgreenf I just don't see how having an end user version of Composer Pro that is locked to that user's registered controller(s) impacts c4 support in any way. Front line support would be provided by the dealer as it is today. It's an elegant solution to the DIY prosumer quandary Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 wapp are you talking to yourself again? But I do agree with the Prosumer DIYer this isn't good. But as others have pointed out, the best thing you can do is have a kick ass dealer who helps you when you need it and lets you rock out with Composer HE when you can. Seems like if you can't find a dealer that wants to play ball, you need to find a better dealer not call the whole model flawed. Don't worry about me.. I am very happy with the current state of play. And yes. No problem with current dealers or plans for same in the future.. it's all good.. Just trying to explore a better way and solution for everyone.. Otherwise this issue will come up time and time again.... It's really never going to go away, or ever be resolved unless various additional changes are made in pro (as I suggest): or alternatively the AK1 approach (see above and so eloquently put) is taken... There is an old saying. You can't be half pregnant. I think that's the problem.. The current state of play for users in general out there *is* a half pregnancy.. Anyway. I'll leave it at that! Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK1 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 WAP you may be over complicating things. A full version of Composer Pro locked to your controller would be all you need.Training could be delivered by your dealer for a fee. This would be a new revenue source for dealersAnd you would have to acknowledge if you break stuff you're gonna pay for a dealer to fix it^ so the real issue is how to deal with this sort of customer.. right? The one that could really screw things up.That's why I've always thought a kind of cut down pro or beefed up HE is the way forward..You know lock out huge stuff ups, like room and total project changes and the like: but allow certain app and driver downloads ( Seth's Push Notify is one example of this. Alan's Recluse XBMC driver is another)... So allow firmware upgrades, simple TV or Blu Ray player room swaps, name and item changes etc, but disallow large Controller, audio matrix or C4 gear instals....I have no idea if this can be done though.. don't know enough about the basis of the program..What's locked down deliberately vs what's locked down because there is no other way.. Frankly it's hard to get an honest answer on this issue around here.. Anyway. Great post and thanks for the perspective. Appreciate it. Cheers Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 ^ AK1 I totally agree with you.. Of course this full option makes way more sense. I agree! It's a full pregnancy My approach is a 3/4 pregnancy, and yes... you are correct.. One can't be 3/4 pregnant either.. I was just trying to explore a more acceptable solution for those trying to accept a change.. But yes. you are 100% correct..If Control4 was to go down this route (and I believe eventually common sense and market driven force will prevail in the end): a full version of Composer Pro locked to an end users controller, really is the only one that is ever going to work in the long run... But it's their company. And at the end of the day, they can do what they like. As has been pointed out here time and again.... What's said here, seems to have little effect. Won't stop me die wondering "if only I'd said it one more time" though.. Cheers. And have a great week everyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAV Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Honest Answers....How much per year would you pay for Composer Pro if it was available? 1. $12002. $9003. $6004. $3005. $100 Keep in mind, most dealers aren't going to be interested in less than $300. So pony up or preceeding arguments are invalid. Betting many are feelilng intitled and when the cash comes to the table, will say it should be included too, or $100 a month, that's crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark LaBelle Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 You can't call GM and buy a car, but you can fix it without calling one of their dealers. Or add new tires, swap out a radio, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texas3622 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I think it is time to short the stock. This is not going anywhere Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMHarman Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 You can't call GM and buy a car, but you can fix it without calling one of their dealers. Or add new tires, swap out a radio, etc. Do you know what you are talking about? When did you last swap out a car 'radio' (a term that is telling in itself). Try swapping out a 'radio' on a car with a MOST bus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOST_Bus You also have the CAN bus on most vehicles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controller_Area_Network Mess with connectivity on either of those at your peril. Quite literally, either of these could be used for safety critical applications, drive by wire throttle systems, TC, ABS, ASC, airbag deployment etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msgreenf Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I know my Ford Edge you can't change the radio.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 wapp are you talking to yourself again? Think about it another way, can you call up GM and buy your car? No. Can you call up Jeep and go to the factory and order one? That's the same idea here...control4 is designed to deal with a small number of trained people, not the masses. While I don't think it's impossible to change, it would be a major change first starting with double or triple the support people. And I agree with the point that a lot of people would really f things up....The best part of Control4 is when everything is clicking and working well..when it doesn't work, we all know how frustrating this is. You can't call up GM and buy a car, but after you buy it (from a dealer) you can do whatever you want to it. You can swap out the stereo, you can chance the oil, you can replace the brake pads - Hell, can cut a sunroof in to the damn thing. You can buy the "Scan Gauge" tool to access to computer and reset lights/pull fault codes, etc... And guess what - you can buy those parts from the dealer, and if you botch the install you can pay the dealer to fix it. That's all that he, and everyone else is proposing. Nobody is discounting your job, but let's be honest. Do you really need to attend a one week training session to rename a dimmer from "Can Light" to "Kitchen Cans"? To swap a Sony Bluray driver for a Samsung Bluray driver? If I try to do it and screw up, I'll call the dealer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I know my Ford Edge you can't change the radio....Sure looks like you can to me. http://www.carid.com/ford-edge-stereo-installation/ Maybe YOU can't, but someone can. But guess what, you can try! And if you jack it up, you can go pay the dealer to fix it for you. You get the point, whether you want to admit it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILoveC4 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Honest Answers....How much per year would you pay for Composer Pro if it was available? 1. $12002. $9003. $6004. $3005. $100 Keep in mind, most dealers aren't going to be interested in less than $300. So pony up or preceeding arguments are invalid. Betting many are feelilng intitled and when the cash comes to the table, will say it should be included too, or $100 a month, that's crazy! Annual subscription of $100. One time purchase of $300 - $500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I agree 100 bucks a year is spot on plus a one off purchase - everyone should be happy with that.Thanks AK for sorting my English out, in Qatar at the moment so few Red Wines in front of must people !!! Bit like Wapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK1 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Hey Gary, between your Qatar red wines and my beers on the beach in Malaysia right now, I think we came up with a frighteningly sensible proposal - against all odds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homex Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Lots of perspectives in this thread... Composer Pro, GM, Etc.. It all reminds me of the saying "giving him just enough rope to hang himself..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 AK - we were both on the beach logging in to this forum - how sad we are !!!! Back home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 ...got to come to a country where the house can actually be on the beach Gary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 AK - we were both on the beach logging in to this forum - how sad we are !!!! Back home Yes that is pretty sad "ol sport"!!! LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Lots of perspectives in this thread... Composer Pro, GM, Etc.. It all reminds me of the saying "giving him just enough rope to hang himself..."Yes I agree, that the end user we make mistakes, which will then give the dealers more business. So its a win win for the dealer. My dealer got excited about some of the things that have happened to my system (Using dealers on here to add drivers etc), however now he calls me asking about solutions to problems (Well twice), End users and dealers need each other and C4 need both to increase there market share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Leeds UK Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 ...got to come to a country where the house can actually be on the beach Gary... Would love too, have a product doing well in Auss at the moment so may have to move out and grow the market !!!!! I wish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wappinghigh Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Here you go Gazza.. Set your new venture up here http://www.byron-bay.com/absolutemoondarah/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prabeau Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Told my dealer about the followme driver and beta testing.He thought it was a great driver with multiple possibilities, seeing how I do not have Pro he installed it right away and asked me to keep him posted on updates and development . After several updates and much information exchange from forum testers and developer .............. I got a $100 + bill in the mail. I introduce him to something new that will expand his service capabilities, I give him info he requested ! I am thinking of charging him for my services ........ ? I dont think he would like the hourly rate I was making prior retirement ! Just saying P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 AK - we were both on the beach logging in to this forum - how sad we are !!!! Back home Back home also and we're all super jetlagged with the 15 hour time difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK1 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yes I agree, that the end user we make mistakes, which will then give the dealers more business. So its a win win for the dealer. My dealer got excited about some of the things that have happened to my system (Using dealers on here to add drivers etc), however now he calls me asking about solutions to problems (Well twice), End users and dealers need each other and C4 need both to increase there market share Right on the money Gary. It's an antiquated view of things to see the dealers as riding to save the poor old users after they mess up their project. There will always be the majority of users who need / want dealer guidance and hand-holding. For the more adept community hanging out here, it's not so much about white glove service and $100 bills for beta software advice. It's more about a collaboration with the dealer - or given your dealer promiscuity, lots of dealers -)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prabeau Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Ps I wasn't asking for advice and I dont need any hand holding just a tad more access. If I dont have Pro I can't install a driver my options a very limited. I get the feeling from the last comments, some dealers on this forum have very strange opinions regarding customers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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