Composer Pro

[Homex]

This series of posts has obviously gotten to the point of circular arguments. I am just amazed that some of the people here think that I should not "own" my system despite having paid a dealer to buy it. Am I leasing the system then?

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You may own the metal and plastic that houses the system, but you do NOT own the software that runs on it.  No different than Microsoft or Apple.

[texas3622]

True - it is a licensing agreement. But they don't tell to come to the apple store to install Microsoft word or even windows on it if I want. All I have to do is download and install or whatever.

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[texas3622]

And I certainly don't need to go in to update the software or put in another router etc etc. should I keep going?

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[SMHarman]

True - it is a licensing agreement. But they don't tell to come to the apple store to install Microsoft word or even windows on it if I want. All I have to do is download and install or whatever.

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But your dealer does not need to come to your house to do the work.  Does your dealer never do any work on your house remotely?

[SMHarman]

And I certainly don't need to go in to update the software or put in another router etc etc. should I keep going?

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Now we are talking.  If you plug in a new USB device then there is generally software installed from the USB device onto the system.  A new driver.

 

Bit like installing a new driver to run your new BD player.

 

Now if hardware manufactureres could put the driver on the device with SDDP discovery and it could install the driver and you could then drop the device into the system in the right place, that is something I could see Home being able to do in the future.

[dgbrown]

So are you saying customers could auto add devices equipped with sddp and make the appropriate connections in Composer but not add devices manually ? If that's the case, what's left in C-Pro that's so taboo ?

[texas3622]

It is almost like we are asking for the code to get into Fort Knox. The only reason not to give access to end users is so that we can be controlled into forking out more and more money. I have not heard a single valid reason to restrict access.

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[AK1]

If you mean there's not a single reason not to give access to your own registered controllers, I completely agree.

[texas3622]

Yes - I am not in the automation or any other related business.

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[Snaffle8]

The key is to develop a good relationship with your dealer so that you CAN add devices yourself and have him remotely program. My dealer seldom charges me for the small stuff. He makes money from me when I buy equipment. Of course I would love to have Composer Pro, but rules are rules. We all have a choice. If I wanted full control,I would have when went with CQC.

[SMHarman]

Yes - I am not in the automation or any other related business.

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But that does not stop the dealer from doing remote maintainance.

 

I have a realationship with mine such that I install a light switch or IP controlled device or whatever and drop him an email / call.  Sometime in the next 48 hrs, usually an evening he will call and remote in to the system to do whatever work needed doing.  My involvement is in pressing keypad buttons and telling him the name for them. 

[SMHarman]

So are you saying customers could auto add devices equipped with sddp and make the appropriate connections in Composer but not add devices manually ? If that's the case, what's left in C-Pro that's so taboo ?

 

I'm just an end user but it is my thinking that the point of SDDP is to simplify installation of devices, analogous to how USB simplified installation of devices on the PC.  Before you had to have a free serial port or Parallel port or disk drive port or network port or card slot.  Now you just daisy chain the USB devices together.  Befor you needed the CD or floppy with the driver.  Now I plug my phone into a computer (with a standard USB cable I can find on most peoples desks) and it wants to download and install the driver software from the phone to the computer.  I remember my first feature phone and the serial to custom connector cable to hook it up to the PC and transfer contacts.

[mstafford388]

The key is to develop a good relationship with your dealer so that you CAN add devices yourself and have him remotely program. My dealer seldom charges me for the small stuff. He makes money from me when I buy equipment. Of course I would love to have Composer Pro, but rules are rules. We all have a choice. If I wanted full control,I would have when went with CQC.

 

That is very true.  I do this for customers all the time.  I had a guy just yesterday wire in 2 new dimmers and I logged in remotely and got them in the project and identified.  We don't charge for that.  We are putting a $2600 audio matrix in a customers house for free next week because it's a new product we want to test in a real environment, and he will give us great, honest feedback and has referred many friends to us.  

 

See, dealers aren't all awful

[texas3622]

Has anyone heard me say dealers are aweful? My dealer is great but that is not the point of discussion is it?

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[mstafford388]

Has anyone heard me say dealers are aweful? My dealer is great but that is not the point of discussion is it?

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I wasnt pointing that comment at you.  wasn't even in response to something you said.  It was really just a joke.  Calm down.

[CFUG]

I guess my take-away out of this tripe is why would anyone still be adding DVDs & BDs to their system.  Last one I did was like 2009...  I get it that it is only an example but, as already mentioned, most users had this done at reasonable cost & effort.  If one is paying $100 to install one of those door stops today, suggest to check your own head.

 

My crazy neighbor uses CDs and DVDs to scare-away the birds.  I donated the Frisbees

[msgreenf]

So are you saying customers could auto add devices equipped with sddp and make the appropriate connections in Composer but not add devices manually ? If that's the case, what's left in C-Pro that's so taboo ?

My understanding of sddp is that is the whole purpose! Yes if you install a sddp piece of equipment you can, in theory, do all the config on a touchscreen

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[dgbrown]

My understanding of sddp is that is the whole purpose! Yes if you install a sddp piece of equipment you can, in theory, do all the config on a touchscreen

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So one would assume making connections in composer would be exposed then. SDDP involves the addition of the driver now the connections.

At that point what's left in c-pro that's not available ? Manual driver additions ?

It seems inevitable given consumer expectations and SDDP that the current model will be changing.

[CFUG]

^Again, why?  Most anything else would require working-knowledge of connections and possibly Driver Wizard.  What's Control4 to do with the process of pre-dealer training, etc.?  Shit-can that just to satisfy, what, 10% of the demographics?  Give it break...

[Cyknight]

My understanding of sddp is that is the whole purpose! Yes if you install a sddp piece of equipment you can, in theory, do all the config on a touchscreen

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The point of SDDP is that you do not need to load driver manually as the device will tell the system what driver to load (though not where), it also does not make bindings other than device ID. Another point is removing the necessity of setting that device to a static or reserved dhcp (or losing connection if the reservation is lost). Potentially it also allows for update features on drivers as well as making required settings on the device (such as network standby) automatically.

 

That this may open up some manner in which user can connect new devices is possible, but not the main reason by any stretch.

 

Also SDDP integration is manufacturer dependent, and while growing, it's a LONG way from being common place on all devices, or device types (think cable box, blu-ray players, AppleTV).

[Godzilla]

the only "real" problem i see is the fact that an end user cannot "see" the connections that have been made between devices and what not

 

then when programming with HE...they are blind to what has been attached to keypad buttons as an example......atleast make them visible so their not programming over bindings

[lippavisual]

This thread is still going.........

[Control4Jarvis]

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/01/24/is-home-automation-a-smart-investment.aspx#commentsBoxAnchor

 

• On January 29, 2014, at 1:55 PM, lalith wrote:

   

  Good article. I'm a Control4 user and obviously fall within their target market w.r.t. income, home value, etc. However after 4 years with it, although useful, it's a real pain to keep up-to-date in the face of new technologies, devices to add/update, etc.

  Their only distribution is through dealer-installers and there's no after-market like for cars. There's no way to make any changes/updates without the dealers, who're not exactly reliable or responsive.

  Contrast that against what Nest or Apple does - make it trivially easy for idiots like me to add/change things using auto-discovering devices...voila, history, Control4! I'll pay a couple thousand to dump them because my (3rd to-date) dealer charges $200 for the privilege of visiting to add a device/update in 15 mts!!! Control4's sadly going to be capped by being beholden to their "dealers" and not their consumers. Bad strategy in today's tech world.

   

• Report this CommentOn April 01, 2014, at 4:20 PM, ronny wrote:

   

  I have had Control4 in my house which was built 4 years ago. My dealer worked from the beginning till

  the end. In four years I have had numerous upgrades major component change outs. Went to a quarterly home visit to negate problems before they happen (never understood this but price is $1,640 per visit) And I now listen to a portable radio for that is the only music I can get. Over 600,000 spent all in the name of a smart house that I turn the lights off by hand. Oh well I have learned a good lesson.

   

  http://www.bbb.org/utah/business-reviews/automation-systems-and-equipment/control4-corporation-in-draper-ut-22218362/complaints

  http://www.yelp.com/biz/control-4-draper

[zaphod]

I guess my take-away out of this tripe is why would anyone still be adding DVDs & BDs to their system.  Last one I did was like 2009...  I get it that it is only an example but, as already mentioned, most users had this done at reasonable cost & effort.  If one is paying $100 to install one of those door stops today, suggest to check your own head.

DVDs and BR was just a generic term for an A/V device.  So let's use the terms Roku or Apple TV or Amazon Fire TV or Xbox One instead, assuming these devices have IR or IP control. 

[SMHarman]

I guess my take-away out of this tripe is why would anyone still be adding DVDs & BDs to their system. Last one I did was like 2009... I get it that it is only an example but, as already mentioned, most users had this done at reasonable cost & effort. If one is paying $100 to install one of those door stops today, suggest to check your own head.

My crazy neighbor uses CDs and DVDs to scare-away the birds. I donated the Frisbees

there is a lot of Netflix content that is DVD or BD only.

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